Mustang GT or Z28?

[JC316]

Ok, quite simply, I want a sports car. It's going to be a daily driver, so I don't want it to be uncomfortable, or a weekend warrior. Just something nice. It needs to be cheap enough to fix and pretty reliable. It's definitely going to be a stick shift, so I don't care about how weak the ford auto transmissions are.

I have it narrowed to the 1994-1998 Mustang GT or the 93-98 Camaro Z28. So, pros and cons that I have figured up. I want your pros and cons on them. I would really like to hear from the people that own one of these cars.

Mustang:
Pros:
5.0L and 4.6L are both bullet proof.
Easily modified (Which I would do. Ebiach springs, headers, exhaust, intake, and gears)
More forgiving on rough surfaces
Easier to get into and out of.

Cons:
Less power than the Z28
Less gas mileage (Not that big a deal since I run a hydrogen unit.)
Not quite as sexy as the Z28.

Z28:
Pros:
Boatload of power from the start
Awesome styling
Better gas mileage
Better handling

Cons:
Low stance
No back seat to speak of
Optispark location pre 96
Cost of repair
Rear end weakness

[erocker]

Does the Z28 really have better handling?!

[JC316]

Does the Z28 really have better handling?!

Supposedly. I have never actually ridden in one, but it's what I have heard. I know I drove a Mustang a few years back and it was quick to corner, even though it was the V6 turd version.

[DaMulta]

Pontiac Firebird

http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/1747.gif

[Wile E]

Not really, erocker. They don't handle any better.

I look at the decision this way. The Mustang is slower, but has a vastly superior chassis. The Camaro is faster, but has a completely shit chassis. Bot have lots of potential.

I'd take the Mustang.

[JC316]

Not really, erocker. They don't handle any better.

I look at the decision this way. The Mustang is slower, but has a vastly superior chassis. The Camaro is faster, but has a completely shit chassis. Bot have lots of potential.

I'd take the Mustang.

Thats kinda the way I am leaning. Plus I have been looking at the numbers and with minor mods, the stang can get up there HP wise, also I heard that Ford downplayed the power of the 5.0L in 94 to make way for the new 4.6L. I heard they were still making 225-230HP

[RevengE]

Get whichever is cheaper on insurance. I am not a big fan of Chevy, however both are great cars.

[Wile E]

Thats kinda the way I am leaning. Plus I have been looking at the numbers and with minor mods, the stang can get up there HP wise, also I heard that Ford downplayed the power of the 5.0L in 94 to make way for the new 4.6L. I heard they were still making 225-230HP

Same ol' 5.0. They just moved to a different rating system. The are slower than the 86-93 cars tho, due to being heavier.

[JC316]

Same ol' 5.0. They just moved to a different rating system. The are slower than the 86-93 cars tho, due to being heavier.

Yeah, but I hate the interiors of the 86-93 stang. The 93 5.0L was rated at 225HP stock, but in the next year it showed to be 215HP. Even still, stock they run 0-60 in like 6.4 seconds, the Z28 runs it in 5.6. Not a huge difference IMO

That and the 3.08 gears they are running don't exactly help it out. I have seen a 5.0L with 3.73's on youtube do a 14.4 quarter mile.

[Wile E]

3.73's seem to be the best compromise between acceleration and cruising ability on a near-stock 5.0 car. Don't forget to change the speedo gear tho. lol.

[JC316]

3.73's seem to be the best compromise between acceleration and cruising ability on a near-stock 5.0 car. Don't forget to change the speedo gear tho. lol.

Oh yeah, I have already looked into that. The gears that I would get come with the speedo gear fix. 4.10's seem too extreme to me. I don't like the idea of running 3KRPM at 70MPH, hell, my Saturn SL2 does that.

[DaMulta]

Yeah, but I hate the interiors of the 86-93 stang. The 93 5.0L was rated at 225HP stock, but in the next year it showed to be 215HP. Even still, stock they run 0-60 in like 6.4 seconds, the Z28 runs it in 5.6. Not a huge difference IMO

That and the 3.08 gears they are running don't exactly help it out. I have seen a 5.0L with 3.73's on youtube do a 14.4 quarter mile.

How about a LT4 1997 Z28?

[Wile E]

I'm not big on the LT series engines. I prefer LS series engines. :D

[DaMulta]

That LT4 was fast......to bad the one my friend had ran too into a tree at 90Mph, and at least we did walk away. It was just fun to cruise at 160Mhp all the time:p

[JC316]

The LT1/4 are nice engines, VERY torquey, but the LS1 is a demon. I rode in a friends C5 vette and HOLY SHIT that thing will move.

[DaMulta]

My uncle had one of the LT1 Fire bird Trans Am with the Ram Air. I do think that it was one of the fastest cars I have ever drove in my life.

Besides a 91 mustang with a 302 totally tweaked for drag racing then switched over for street driving....91 is the only model of the mustang that I would ever really want to own. Besides an old Boss.

[JC316]

My uncle had one of the LT1 Fire bird Trans Am with the Ram Air. I do think that it was one of the fastest cars I have ever drove in my life.

Besides a 91 mustang with a 302 totally tweaked for drag racing then switched over for street driving....91 is the only model of the mustang that I would ever really want to own. Besides an old Boss.

Yeah, the Ram air's were making 305HP with the LT1. Lincoln Mark VIII is probably the fastest car that I have ever driven.

[DaMulta]

The Mark Viii is a fast car(1993 is the fastest). Yet the LT4 Z28 and the LT1 Ram Air would smoke it.

[RevengE]

I like the older stangs as well.

[Marineborn]

z28...every blonde girl or stupid highschooler owns a mustang, that comment isnt meant to offend anyone, its just my opinion

[TheMailMan]

The 4.6 3 valve produces some serious power man. I would go with the pony on this one. FYI Steeda in near me and they have some great stuff. If you ever want to order something from them let me know and I can look at it for you before you buy.

I use ANY excuse to go over there :D

z28...every blonde girl or stupid highschooler owns a mustang, that comment isnt meant to offend anyone, its just my opinion

Hey I own one and I havent been in school in over a decade!

[Wile E]

z28...every blonde girl or stupid highschooler owns a mustang, that comment isnt meant to offend anyone, its just my opinion

And every mullet-sporting, trailer park living, wife beater drives a Z28.

See, 2 can play the stereotype game. :D

[JC316]

Hehe, finally got the stang. It's a 96 and I am VERY happy with my choice. Handles just as good as my old 300zx did. Great build quality as well, no squeaks or rattles. Mine is FAST, it SMOKES my sisters 275HP Seville.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Hehe, finally got the stang. It's a 96 and I am VERY happy with my choice. Handles just as good as my old 300zx did. Great build quality as well, no squeaks or rattles. Mine is FAST, it SMOKES my sisters 275HP boat with a tank strapped on top.
Fixed, but congrats! I'm not a Mustang fan but I'd have made the same pick.

[JC316]

Fixed, but congrats! I'm not a Mustang fan but I'd have made the same pick.

Hehe, that Seville aint exactly slow. 3800LBS with 275HP and 300ftlbs of torque...

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n10/JC316_2006/Cadillac/th_100_8815.jpg (http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n10/JC316_2006/Cadillac/?action=view&current=100_8815.flv)

[pepsi71ocean]

do as my brother did, 1989 iroc-z with a LT1 in it, lol

I say go for the Z28 and put in a LT1 and a 700R$ transmisison with a B&M Slap shifter on it.

LOL

Or go with a Mustang GT and tune it up.

[JC316]

do as my brother did, 1989 iroc-z with a LT1 in it, lol

I say go for the Z28 and put in a LT1 and a 700R$ transmisison with a B&M Slap shifter on it.

LOL

Or go with a Mustang GT and tune it up.

I got a 96 Mustang GT. Glad that I did. Just found out today that it has an ominous knocking in the oil pan, so I pulled the engine. Really glad that I went with the Stang, pulled the engine in 6 hours. Going to do the Performance Improved head swap and toss some short tube headers on during the rebuild. Hoping to net about 50HP, more when I get a tuner.

Once I am done, it will probably be making 270HP at the crank so I will be able to hang with the LT1 camaro's.

[Wile E]

I got a 96 Mustang GT. Glad that I did. Just found out today that it has an ominous knocking in the oil pan, so I pulled the engine. Really glad that I went with the Stang, pulled the engine in 6 hours. Going to do the Performance Improved head swap and toss some short tube headers on during the rebuild. Hoping to net about 50HP, more when I get a tuner.

Once I am done, it will probably be making 270HP at the crank so I will be able to hang with the LT1 camaro's.

It running all that time with no spark on an entire bank probably wiped out the bearings from the gas washing the oil away. You could just try throwing in new rod and main bearings to get by for now.

And don't forget the PI heads require a PI intake as well.

[pepsi71ocean]

my brothers car runs mid 11's in the 1/4 mi. he is trying to get it into the 10's, but right now were dealing with alot of body flexing, and that isn't as easy as it seems since its a convertable, however we have run alot of cross members including a 4 point roll bar, among other things.

His LT1 was never dynoed, but when he bought it from the guy it would lay rubber for ever and ever, with a stock 2.73 that way, switched it out for either a 3.9x or a 4.10, i don't remember ide have to ask. I know the guy did alot of engine tune up work, flat top pistons, ported printed and balanced, edlebrock headers, the list goes on and on.

I believe its been stroked to 383 but that im not sure of. Diesels are my thing not gassers...

[JC316]

It running all that time with no spark on an entire bank probably wiped out the bearings from the gas washing the oil away. You could just try throwing in new rod and main bearings to get by for now.

And don't forget the PI heads require a PI intake as well.

Yeah, I agree. It locked up on me the first day I got it, but I got the motor to turn, so I thought I was safe, I guess not. Not like it matters too much, I have the parts at around $400 and then I will get the PI heads/Intake from a Pick U Pull.

[pepsi71ocean]

Flat top pistons!!!! lol

[Wile E]

Oh, and just so you know, the PI heads on the non-PI engines result in a higher compression ratio. You'll have to run premium at the least. Should make a few more ponies than a native PI engine tho.

[JC316]

Oh, and just so you know, the PI heads on the non-PI engines result in a higher compression ratio. You'll have to run premium at the least. Should make a few more ponies than a native PI engine tho.

Why would I have to do that? The 99+ still only needs regular. I understand that it ups the compression ration to 10.5:1, but my Cadillac has the same and I run regular in it. Not supposed to, but the car runs fine.

Keep in mind that our regular is 87 octane down here. I know in Colorado, it's 85 octane. CO premium is only 89 octane, where ours is 93 octane.

[pepsi71ocean]

Why would I have to do that? The 99+ still only needs regular. I understand that it ups the compression ration to 10.5:1, but my Cadillac has the same and I run regular in it. Not supposed to, but the car runs fine.

Keep in mind that our regular is 87 octane down here. I know in Colorado, it's 85 octane. CO premium is only 89 octane, where ours is 93 octane.

because of the compression ratio, if you run at 10:5:1 and you use regular im sure that the engine will retard the timing to prevent detonation, and which case you will loose HP. All that the octane ratings do is allow you to run higher compression or higher boost levels before detonation occurs.

I would think that it would be wise to run at least 91 if not higher if your running a car like that. After all its not worth the risk of Pre detonation and getting all kinds of engine knock and you could do more damage depending on what goes on when your engine decides to start pre-detonation.

[yogurt_21]

my brothers car runs mid 11's in the 1/4 mi. he is trying to get it into the 10's, but right now were dealing with alot of body flexing, and that isn't as easy as it seems since its a convertable, however we have run alot of cross members including a 4 point roll bar, among other things.

His LT1 was never dynoed, but when he bought it from the guy it would lay rubber for ever and ever, with a stock 2.73 that way, switched it out for either a 3.9x or a 4.10, i don't remember ide have to ask. I know the guy did alot of engine tune up work, flat top pistons, ported printed and balanced, edlebrock headers, the list goes on and on.

I believe its been stroked to 383 but that im not sure of. Diesels are my thing not gassers...

what's your brothers quarter mph? I found that with my ranchero the hardest thing was getting her off the line in a decent amount of time. that's why my best was 10.2 at 135mph where as I've had freind hit the same 135mph but run a 9.5 in a firebird. typical runs were 126mph at 10.8 mainly because she would refuse to get going.

[JC316]

because of the compression ratio, if you run at 10:5:1 and you use regular im sure that the engine will retard the timing to prevent detonation, and which case you will loose HP. All that the octane ratings do is allow you to run higher compression or higher boost levels before detonation occurs.

I would think that it would be wise to run at least 91 if not higher if your running a car like that. After all its not worth the risk of Pre detonation and getting all kinds of engine knock and you could do more damage depending on what goes on when your engine decides to start pre-detonation.

I understand the compression ratio and the octane ratings, but since the 99+ PI engines still run on regular and make 260HP, I don't see why my NPI engine would need premium. I mean, it's only 10 cents more for mid grade around here anyway, so it's not a huge deal.

[pepsi71ocean]

what's your brothers quarter mph? I found that with my ranchero the hardest thing was getting her off the line in a decent amount of time. that's why my best was 10.2 at 135mph where as I've had freind hit the same 135mph but run a 9.5 in a firebird. typical runs were 126mph at 10.8 mainly because she would refuse to get going.

that isn't something i would know, but i believe when he had 3.90's he was maxing our around 140:confused: I specialize in diesel engines.

I understand the compression ratio and the octane ratings, but since the 99+ PI engines still run on regular and make 260HP, I don't see why my NPI engine would need premium. I mean, it's only 10 cents more for mid grade around here anyway, so it's not a huge deal.

unless your looking at 260HP for output, whcih i think you said you wanted 500hp?? but i would think that running lower octane gas raises your risk for burning the sleeves,rings, melting pistons etic. But since its all electronic these days you may not notice or pick up on those issues because the engines computer will try and fix things so it will run on that gas.

you might even see bad economy because it might force the engine to run either rich or lean to help compensate for the octanes combustive ness. You could be opening up a can of worms doing that, or it could do nothing, but with all of todays electronics there is no real good way of telling anymore.
To bad this wasn't the old days when everythign was mechanical, and you did everything by hand,

Of course you could run water/meth injection its better then NOS

[JC316]

that isn't something i would know, but i believe when he had 3.90's he was maxing our around 140:confused: I specialize in diesel engines.



unless your looking at 260HP for output, whcih i think you said you wanted 500hp?? but i would think that running lower octane gas raises your risk for burning the sleeves,rings, melting pistons etic. But since its all electronic these days you may not notice or pick up on those issues because the engines computer will try and fix things so it will run on that gas.

you might even see bad economy because it might force the engine to run either rich or lean to help compensate for the octanes combustive ness. You could be opening up a can of worms doing that, or it could do nothing, but with all of todays electronics there is no real good way of telling anymore.
To bad this wasn't the old days when everythign was mechanical, and you did everything by hand,

Of course you could run water/meth injection its better then NOS

Nah, anything over 250HP will do for me. I have found my reason though, it's because the compression ratio will be higher, actually netting more power than the 99+ stang. Suppossedly you can hang with the Cobra with this swap.

[pepsi71ocean]

i amost bought a Mustang and bastardized it with a LS7 engine, lol

Figured 600HP, 450block, ! supercharger on top, running water meth for ADI system, lol

[Wile E]

Nah, anything over 250HP will do for me. I have found my reason though, it's because the compression ratio will be higher, actually netting more power than the 99+ stang. Suppossedly you can hang with the Cobra with this swap.

You won't if you don't run the premium. The computer will retard the timing because it will sense knock if you use regular.

Your Caddy is doing the same thing if you run regular in it, and it's likely also hurting your mileage.

[pepsi71ocean]

You won't if you don't run the premium. The computer will retard the timing because it will sense knock if you use regular.

Your Caddy is doing the same thing if you run regular in it, and it's likely also hurting your mileage.

lol that is exactly what i said, lol

[Wile E]

lol that is exactly what i said, lol

I know, I was just trying to reinforce the point.

[JC316]

I know, I was just trying to reinforce the point.

Like I said, I understand the concept, I just couldn't figure out why the PI heds would require it, but smaller piston chambers on the NPI block give higher compression than the 99+ blocks.

[Wile E]

Like I said, I understand the concept, I just couldn't figure out why the PI heds would require it, but smaller piston chambers on the NPI block give higher compression than the 99+ blocks.

Exactly, and higher compression has the need for either more octane, or retarded timing.

[JC316]

Oh yeah, and the main/rod bearings are fine, it was the timing chain tensioner that was knocking. Chain wasn't tight, so it was flapping around and hitting the upper guide. Easy to fix with the motor in the car, but there is alot more that needs to be fixed, namely oil leaks from the rear main and oil pan.

[Wile E]

Oh yeah, and the main/rod bearings are fine, it was the timing chain tensioner that was knocking. Chain wasn't tight, so it was flapping around and hitting the upper guide. Easy to fix with the motor in the car, but there is alot more that needs to be fixed, namely oil leaks from the rear main and oil pan.

Sweet. Good news. i don't know why I didn't think to tell you to check the tensioner in the first place.

And fixing those leaks can be a bit of a pain.

[JC316]

Sweet. Good news. i don't know why I didn't think to tell you to check the tensioner in the first place.

And fixing those leaks can be a bit of a pain.

I should have checked it myself, but didn't. I did find out that the following needed replacement.

1. Motor Mounts
2. Throw Out Bearing
3. Rear Main
4. Oil Pan gasket.

All of those are near impossible to fix with the motor in, so I came out alright. Plus I might do the PI swap.

[yogurt_21]

I should have checked it myself, but didn't. I did find out that the following needed replacement.

1. Motor Mounts
2. Throw Out Bearing
3. Rear Main
4. Oil Pan gasket.

All of those are near impossible to fix with the motor in, so I came out alright. Plus I might do the PI swap.

that's not too bad for the year. how's the suspension feel? if you're going to pull the engine it's alot easier to get at struts etc. so you might as well replace anythign that needs it at the same time as well.

[JC316]

that's not too bad for the year. how's the suspension feel? if you're going to pull the engine it's alot easier to get at struts etc. so you might as well replace anythign that needs it at the same time as well.

Suspension is solid as a rock. The car is very tight for it's age, the previous owner took good care of it.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Put in a 110hp Honda Civic motor and then you can drift rite?

[JC316]

Put in a 110hp Honda Civic motor and then you can drift rite?

I assume that is some Fast and the Furious joke.... All I have to do is pop the clutch at 3000RPM and I can have the ass end sliding all over the place lol.

[pepsi71ocean]

Put in a 110hp Honda Civic motor and then you can drift rite?

LOL you need like 50HP to get the car to squeek, lol, just a turbo is all that is necessary since is an I-4 it will run 5K all day long.

[yogurt_21]

Suspension is solid as a rock. The car is very tight for it's age, the previous owner took good care of it.

nice sounds like you got quite the deal.

[Wile E]

I should have checked it myself, but didn't. I did find out that the following needed replacement.

1. Motor Mounts
2. Throw Out Bearing
3. Rear Main
4. Oil Pan gasket.

All of those are near impossible to fix with the motor in, so I came out alright. Plus I might do the PI swap.
Might as well replace the pressure plate and clutch while you're at it. lol.

[JC316]

Might as well replace the pressure plate and clutch while you're at it. lol.

Both of those look new and judging by the fact that an upper bell housing bolt was missing, I would say that someone changed it recently.

[pepsi71ocean]

na put a hydraulic clutch in for all of that torque your car will have, lol

then stick a 700 R4, or 3 speed rock crusher transmission in for crazy acceleration, since you will have 500 or so HP you could probably swing it.