Minaret ban in Switzerland approved

[MRCL]

Minaret ban approved by 57 per cent of voters

To the great surprise of pollsters and the regret of the government, the Swiss on Sunday said yes to a ban on the construction of minarets.
According to final results, 57.5 per cent of voters and a majority of cantons backed the initiative.

Turnout was high at around 55 per cent.

The result comes as a major surprise and a slap in the face of the government. Opinion polls ahead of the vote had predicted the ban would be rejected by 53 per cent of the electorate.

The proposal on banning minaret construction was championed by rightwing and ultra-conservative groups. The government and most political parties as well as churches and the business community came out strongly against it.

"A majority of the Swiss people and the cantons have adopted the popular initiative against the construction of minarets. The Federal Council respects this decision," a government statement said.

"Consequently the construction of new minarets in Switzerland is no longer permitted. The four existing minarets will remain. It will also be possible to continue to construct mosques."

The statement said freedom of belief would not be affected. "Muslims in Switzerland are able to practise their religion alone or in community with others, and live according to their beliefs just as before."

Read more at Source (http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/front/Minaret_ban_approved_by_57_per_cent_of_voters.html ?siteSect=105&sid=11554852&cKey=1259509043000&ty=st)

I don't know your opinions regarding this subject, but I think it was a good move of our people to ban the minarets. Lets see how other countries react to this (mainly Germany who is having problems with the Islamic religion themselves), maybe it shed some light to others. It gained international attention anyway.

[dr emulator (madmax)]

•Minarets may refer to: *Minarets, an architectural feature of Islamic mosques
hmm have to tread carefully don't want to upset ali ba ba http://www.phpbbserver.com/mameuifx/images/smiles/a_chuckle.gif:D

[MRCL]

•Minarets may refer to: *Minarets, an architectural feature of Islamic mosques
hmm have to tread carefully don't want to upset ali ba ba http://www.phpbbserver.com/mameuifx/images/smiles/a_chuckle.gif:D

Lol well you can't treat everybody right, someone will be disappointed, offended or whatever, this is human nature.

[dr emulator (madmax)]

true true so i'd better leave before i say something naughty about that type of thing and get a (nutkick) ;)

[FordGT90Concept]

I don't know if I would oppose or support so I'd probably not participate in such a vote here. The only reason I'd really oppose it is if it poses some threat to air traffic or sends an improper message (as would a church steeple) being the tallest structure in a community.

[mtosev]

haha new terrorist target: the Swiss :D

Buuum-Kabuuuuum :D

[mtosev]

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6931/60055696.jpg

muslims praying in Slovenia. they don't have not 1 mosque. :P

[Frick]

Minaret ban approved by 57 per cent of voters



Read more at Source (http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/front/Minaret_ban_approved_by_57_per_cent_of_voters.html ?siteSect=105&sid=11554852&cKey=1259509043000&ty=st)

I don't know your opinions regarding this subject, but I think it was a good move of our people to ban the minarets. Lets see how other countries react to this (mainly Germany who is having problems with the Islamic religion themselves), maybe it shed some light to others. It gained international attention anyway.

Why is it good?

[Cuzza]

I don't see the point. What does this ban achieve?

@mtosev, why do they not have a mosque? Is it because there are not enough of them to afford to build one, or does the suppressive non-muslim majority object?

[MRCL]

The thing is, Muslims here want more and more. They don't need a minaret, the Koran doesn't even mention it. But its a symbol saying "now we are here". its a symbol of power and possession. With this ban people want to stop the Islamisation (?) in Switzerland and Europe. Ask the Germans. They have Islamic neighborhoods, and muezzins (those guys that shout the prayers from the minarets). We don't want that here. Switzerland is not Islamic. All other religions don't demand such things from our government.

I know freedom of religion is a delicate subject, but still.

[mtosev]

I don't see the point. What does this ban achieve?

@mtosev, why do they not have a mosque? Is it because there are not enough of them to afford to build one, or does the suppressive non-muslim majority object?

some politisions, most of the general public opposes it. they want one the size of the mosques found in Saudi Arabia and also they want more that one in a country that has 2M pop. they have been trying for the past 20 years :P

1.10% or a bit more are muslims.

[Wile E]

The thing is, Muslims here want more and more. They don't need a minaret, the Koran doesn't even mention it. But its a symbol saying "now we are here". its a symbol of power and possession. With this ban people want to stop the Islamisation (?) in Switzerland and Europe. Ask the Germans. They have Islamic neighborhoods, and muezzins (those guys that shout the prayers from the minarets). We don't want that here. Switzerland is not Islamic. All other religions don't demand such things from our government.

I know freedom of religion is a delicate subject, but still.

I have to agree. They want more rights than other religions, not merely equality. I'm glad to see your country taking a stand.

[erocker]

its a symbol of power and possession.

Then the Swiss are justified in what they did. No country would allow another flag to be hoisted above their cities claming possesion of a land.

[Steevo]

I have friends in England who tire of their extremist attitude about eveything. One during fasting started screaming at co-workers who ate, claiming religious intolerance and demanding they not be allowed to eat by him.



he was in the lunch room BTW.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

It's disgusting. Muslims in Europe really do want more rights than other religions, not equal rights. They want to conquer, essentially, European culture and all it stands for.

[twilyth]

Praise Allah!

Oh . . . wait . . .

[El Fiendo]

I've been listening a bunch to that Pat Condell on Youtube, which if I agree with him or not is irrelevant because for some reason I find it somehow sped up my work. But aside from that I've looked into some of the issues that have been cropping up in Europe regarding 'Islamification'. I've also noticed issues are spreading to more countries and becoming more frequent. I'm not sure what exactly to draw from it all, but I do know that it will spread to more than Europe if allowed.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

CfH_VmP1-fU

On that note... I'll never complain about Mexican immigration. I'd much rather see my culture change from hot dogs to tacos than:
http://libertarianalliance.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/keeley-hazell-picture-1.jpg
to
http://myminddroppings.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/burqa1.jpg

[Cuzza]

Well, Islam has been on Europe's doorstep for centuries. The only thing holding it back has been Christianity. Now that Christianity is crumbling under the weight of rampant secularism, Islam is getting a damn good look in.

BTW, mmmm boobies

[MRCL]

Well, Islam has been on Europe's doorstep for centuries. The only thing holding it back has been Christianity. Now that Christianity is crumbling under the weight of rampant secularism, Islam is getting a damn good look in.

BTW, mmmm boobies

Christianity is too weak anyway. Turning the other cheeck doesn't really work today. Its an invitation to slap twice.

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

CHristianty has had way too many scandals IMHO

[FordGT90Concept]

Christianity has given up on crusades, Islam hasn't. Nothing spread Christianity more than the Roman Empire expanding its borders. Now Islam is being spread by fanatics in Africa, terrorists in the Middle East, and people who claim oppression in the West (Europe, USA, and Canada). The West has forgetten what oppression really means.

In any case, the next crusade (no matter the religions involved) will come soon enough.

[btarunr]

European population growth rates won't be able to catch up with those of the migrants who can multiply like rabbits, given the space and resources. So this really has pure geopolitical overtones. The right way to do it however is not in banning minarets, but actively restricting migrations. Banning minarets will only cause more hatred, butthurt Muslims will take on the state and there will be unnecessary drama. They can't, however do anything about their visa being denied. So that's where the Swiss did it wrong.

[MRCL]

European population growth rates won't be able to catch up with those of the migrants who can multiply like rabbits, given the space and resources. So this really has pure geopolitical overtones. The right way to do it however is not in banning minarets, but actively restricting migrations. Banning minarets will only cause more hatred, butthurt Muslims will take on the state and there will be unnecessary drama. They can't, however do anything about their visa being denied. So that's where the Swiss did it wrong.

Restricting migration? That would mean even more drama here. And if the majority of the Swiss people would approve a restriction, those people who didn't are going to be pissed and don't accept it. And our weak government gives in to the pissed people. We give in to everything lately. The left wing does not accept that we approved the ban for minarets. And our government listens to them, not to the majority of the people. THIS is where it really is wrong.

[jmcslob]

Simple Fix (I wish we would make Law here)

No Religions are allowed to Annoy the Public......
That means No Church Bells, No Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses at my Door, and No Minarets (which are signs of Islamic Rule and annoyingly used for call to pray)
@least around here the Jews have it right....You don't even know they are here.....

[@RaXxaa@]

The immigrated muslims(so called) dont really remain muslims so well the video might be right they do immigrate and populate as musillm born but no longer are muslims.!
As for Minarets, its rediculous to ban it cause its used for some sort of voice to echo inside the mosque to reach all, meaning, it does not reach outside so its just another excuse to ban out muslims, Swiss would be wrong if they did that, as having a muslim commuinty in a country does not change the flag as its a religon not a country!

Fanatics in Africa, terrorists in the Middle East, and people who claim oppression in the West (Europe, USA, and Canada)Saying that every one spreading the religon is something wrong, THATS just bieng IGNORANT!

[momentomoir]

Simple Fix (I wish we would make Law here)

No Religions are allowed to Annoy the Public......
That means No Church Bells, No Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses at my Door, and No Minarets (which are signs of Islamic Rule and annoyingly used for call to pray)
@least around here the Jews have it right....You don't even know they are here.....

+9999999999999999999999999
i agree 110%

[MRCL]

The immigrated muslims(so called) dont really remain muslims so well the video might be right they do immigrate and populate as musillm born but no longer are muslims.!
As for Minarets, its rediculous to ban it cause its used for some sort of voice to echo inside the mosque to reach all, meaning, it does not reach outside so its just another excuse to ban out muslims, Swiss would be wrong if they did that, as having a muslim commuinty in a country does not change the flag as its a religon not a country!

Fanatics in Africa, terrorists in the Middle East, and people who claim oppression in the West (Europe, USA, and Canada)Saying that every one spreading the religon is something wrong, THATS just bieng IGNORANT!

- The immigrated Muslims stay Muslim here. They have their own subcommunity. They may integrate in reagrd of speaking our language and such, but they practise their own culture and in most cases do not respect ours or don't even try to. Their children get sucked in that spiral, too.

- Minarets are purely outside, they have nothing to do whatsoever with echoing inside a mosque. They are purely symbols of power, and used to shout prayers from. They are not in any way a necessary attatchment to a mosque, nor are they required for any religious practice.

- What do you think happens when the majority of a country's population is Muslim? Do you really think they still "bow" to our rules? Gaddhafi once said we (the Muslims) do not have to bother with terrorist acts or wars, we can overtake the west with little effort and no guns. (Well something along those lines). And he's right, if it continues as now.

- There's a difference between spreading a religion and slowly eliminate all other religions. What the Islam does or wants to do, as their holy Quran states to kill all non believers (eg: all non-muslims). And wanting to prevent that is NOT being ignorant.

(r)

[jmcslob]

- The immigrated Muslims stay Muslim here. They have their own subcommunity. They may integrate in reagrd of speaking our language and such, but they practise their own culture and in most cases do not respect ours or don't even try to. Their children get sucked in that spiral, too.

- Minarets are purely outside, they have nothing to do whatsoever with echoing inside a mosque. They are purely symbols of power, and used to shout prayers from. They are not in any way a necessary attatchment to a mosque, nor are they required for any religious practice.

- What do you think happens when the majority of a country's population is Muslim? Do you really think they still "bow" to our rules? Gaddhafi once said we (the Muslims) do not have to bother with terrorist acts or wars, we can overtake the west with little effort and no guns. (Well something along those lines). And he's right, if it continues as now.

- There's a difference between spreading a religion and slowly eliminate all other religions. What the Islam does or wants to do, as their holy Quran states to kill all non believers (eg: all non-muslims). And wanting to prevent that is NOT being ignorant.

(r)And to Add to that.....
If you move to another country, you should be Damn Ready to accept it's culture, instead of trying to force your own upon it.

To do otherwise would be Ignorant....and I believe that's what The Swiss just Said. (I hope we soon!!!! follow!!! suit!!)

The Swiss have been kind enough to let these people Migrate there, the least these people could do is Show some Respect.

They let them worship Whatever they want, but are simply asked, to keep it to themselves....

What's the problem?

The Muslims point of view Seems kind of rude to me..

[WhiteLotus]

I see a lot of ignorance in this thread - this sadden me.

I recently moved to Bradford (if you're not from the UK then Bradford is known for it's high population of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs as well as it's VERY high density of asian/indian race.) and i can tell you now that the people here are damn nice. They are much nicer than chav infested Plymouth that's for sure.

I have made MANY religious friends most of which celebrate Eid this weekend gone, and then will celebrate Christmas in a few weeks time - and they do it happily.

Sorry but the people here stating that Muslims are rude can shut the hell up. Wouldn't you wear an extra layer of skin if half the world thought you're as bad as the guy hiding in a cave?!?!


Oh also - MRCL - you should start taking down steeples and any Cathedrals as well as they are a sign of power of the Christian religion. My kitchen looks out on to a Mosque that is being built and i can tell you that architecturally speaking it looks damn nice. (pics included) and then across the road - a church.

I agree that religion itself should be removed from politics, i myself am an Atheist. There is no God, but if people want to believe in whoever then let them. A minaret is just a lump of stone. If they start publicly stoning people for doing something wrong then yes, by all means step in. But to stop a cone being built. Well that's just stupid.

[MRCL]

Well I consider myself intolerant, not ignorant. I'm tired of tolerating everything.
Of course there are many Muslim people who are nice, I have several Muslim (and other religious) friends myself. But the sad thing is, the majority is not so nice.

As for curches being symbols... well yes, you are right. The key thing tho is - this is our culture. Symbols of power of our culture. Minarets, indeed only shapes of stone, are symbols of power of another culture. That is the point. We don't care for mosques or synagoges built... and we admire their architecture. But when it comes to a buildig that plain and simple states "Here is the Islam now", thats crossing the line.

I respect your opinion, if you think my (and the majority of the Swiss peoples) thoughts are stupid, so be it. We just try to defend our culture before it can be too late.

[Cuzza]

@WhiteLotus, agreed chavs are scum, I'd rather live amongst muslims

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

muslims > chavs

but fact of the matter is .. i dont force my religon down anyones throat neither do i want anyone to do that to me

[WhiteLotus]

You get Christians flying half way around the world to convert people too.

[erocker]

You get Christians flying half way around the world to convert people too.

Not by force.

[@RaXxaa@]

- The immigrated Muslims stay Muslim here. They have their own subcommunity. They may integrate in reagrd of speaking our language and such, but they practise their own culture and in most cases do not respect ours or don't even try to. Their children get sucked in that spiral, too.

- Minarets are purely outside, they have nothing to do whatsoever with echoing inside a mosque. They are purely symbols of power, and used to shout prayers from. They are not in any way a necessary attatchment to a mosque, nor are they required for any religious practice.

- What do you think happens when the majority of a country's population is Muslim? Do you really think they still "bow" to our rules? Gaddhafi once said we (the Muslims) do not have to bother with terrorist acts or wars, we can overtake the west with little effort and no guns. (Well something along those lines). And he's right, if it continues as now.

- There's a difference between spreading a religion and slowly eliminate all other religions. What the Islam does or wants to do, as their holy Quran states to kill all non believers (eg: all non-muslims). And wanting to prevent that is NOT being ignorant.

(r)

As i remember ppeople shouldnt be bother by someone elses Religon.... Anyway the minrate well i dont think people really climb all the way rather they now have speakers on top of it, so removing it dosent make a difference as if the speakers were lower then it still would be same.

And you people need to know that there is a difference between a religon and a country's law..... why do you interfere religon with law.... even if the population is 95% muslims the law still have authority to stop them if they do anything wrong, cause they are now the citizen of that country and they accepted of terms and condition of the country to get the immigration. And i dont think you understand the religon itself to know what it speaks of, when it talks of no guns and everything meaning as by spreading the word, by behaving nice and everything etc. so by your doing may the other see the this religon of proper peace and if wanted would convert by himself, defining as taking over the west by spreading the word.

And now you always have had the misconception on Islam and every one of you just belives what your media tells you about it, by saying and Eliminate the non-belivers who try to harm you and who try to depart you from your religon, and when they dont stop it only then you have a right to have
Jihad(Religious struggle), but there are kinds of Jihads, Jihad by swords(now Guns) Jihad by writing, and Jihad by hand meaning of fighting for justice as in not beating them literally but by having justice on your side.

And just to clearify, anyone of those terrorist saying that killing myself gives my 72 virgins is wrong and not a muslims, because Quran says when you die in jihad will you goto heaven and have all the luxuries of heaven, not by getting yourself killed....
And again jihad is only acceptable when anyone other strikes first, dosent stop by writing to him or talking with them, only then do you have a right to have jihad!!!

Message to all. Stop making jokes about muslim/islamic terrorists cause there are none and you are giving out a misconcetion of islam too.



As for curches being symbols... well yes, you are right. The key thing tho is - this is our culture. Symbols of power of our culture. Minarets, indeed only shapes of stone, are symbols of power of another culture. That is the point. We don't care for mosques or synagoges built... and we admire their architecture. But when it comes to a buildig that plain and simple states "Here is the Islam now", thats crossing the line. .

Just to make sure i googled it up MINARETS, they symbolify a muslim community instead of power, i think people in west indeed are misconcepted!

_FBi;17695']muslims > chavs

but fact of the matter is .. i dont force my religon down anyones throat neither do i want anyone to do that to me

As islam say spread the word, but forcing it on anyone against there will is non Islamic actions so blame the people not the religon

[erocker]

blame the people not the religon

Super 100% agreed.

[FordGT90Concept]

Religion wouldn't work if it wasn't self-propagating. It is a mental virus, spread from one gullible human to the next. Just like biological viruses, it kills some whilst others prove immune. Without religion, they'd find some other boon to rectify a massive tower for.

In a twisted way, I agree. At the same time, their beliefs inspired them to act.

[@RaXxaa@]

Well then you are just thinking beyond the facts

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

Super 100% agreed.

But religion is spread by ppl

[El Fiendo]

The issue is that the Muslim community has been making demands on The Netherland's government to start incorporating Islamic religious law, aka the Sharia Law. http://www.rnw.nl/africa/article/sharia-courts-give-hague-shivers

Gender inequality, polygamy, and what's more is that some of the Mosques have been taking it into their own hands in passing rulings (aka completely ignoring the judicial methods of the country they reside in) based on the Sharia Law. As the article states, quite a few of the decisions made by these Mosques are against Dutch laws. So when you say:
And you people need to know that there is a difference between a religon and a country's law..... why do you interfere religon with law....

You're wrong. No one here is confusing religion and law, as its already being done. The article also provides a few examples of other countries where demands have been made to incorporate Islamic religious law, and how those countries reacted.


Also, what do you mean 'you people?' :laugh:

[jmcslob]

I see a lot of ignorance in this thread - this sadden me.

I recently moved to Bradford (if you're not from the UK then Bradford is known for it's high population of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs as well as it's VERY high density of asian/indian race.) and i can tell you now that the people here are damn nice. They are much nicer than chav infested Plymouth that's for sure.

I have made MANY religious friends most of which celebrate Eid this weekend gone, and then will celebrate Christmas in a few weeks time - and they do it happily.

Sorry but the people here stating that Muslims are rude can shut the hell up. Wouldn't you wear an extra layer of skin if half the world thought you're as bad as the guy hiding in a cave?!?!


Oh also - MRCL - you should start taking down steeples and any Cathedrals as well as they are a sign of power of the Christian religion. My kitchen looks out on to a Mosque that is being built and i can tell you that architecturally speaking it looks damn nice. (pics included) and then across the road - a church.

I agree that religion itself should be removed from politics, i myself am an Atheist. There is no God, but if people want to believe in whoever then let them. A minaret is just a lump of stone. If they start publicly stoning people for doing something wrong then yes, by all means step in. But to stop a cone being built. Well that's just stupid.
Uhmmm NO The Muslims in question Here are Being QUITE RUDE ACTUALLY!!
I'm not suggesting all Muslims, just the ones involved in this BS...

And well Islam has been at war for one retarded reason or another for like 2000 years....I don't believe seeing it as "Bad" is anything New to western cultures.

It's not just the current Idiot in the Cave, it's all the idiots in the Streets that gets The Western world worried. I know as well as everybody, that we are talking about <1% of Muslims, but those <1% seem to have a way about getting everyone all rowdy and shit.

You know like when they Fly an Airplane into a civilian Building!!
and the people who stand by and watch because it's legal in Islamic Law?
(it's not but was according to Taliban)

No I think a Culture has the right to say no, we don't want your signs of oppression Here, even if that culture has it's own signs of oppression.

[FordGT90Concept]

It sounds like the Roman Empire all over except instead of a czar vs Christian leadership, it is Democracy vs. Islam leadership. That's a very, very bad road to go down. No democracy should ever adapt law that carries its own title. To do so is to not represent the best interests of the democracy.

[@RaXxaa@]

Actually if some mosques and the preachers just decide to pass laws without the confirmation of the whole country then its justified to deny them this right!
Iam a muslim but nothing gives rights to pass your own laws everywhere

[MRCL]

And you people need to know that there is a difference between a religon and a country's law..... why do you interfere religon with law.... even if the population is 95% muslims the law still have authority to stop them if they do anything wrong, cause they are now the citizen of that country and they accepted of terms and condition of the country to get the immigration.

If a country with original population A consists of 95% population B, more B people would be in charge and changing that law.

Just an example, if Iran would now feature 95% American inhabitants, wouldn't you think those Americans would try to change Irans laws to match their vision of a country?

And i dont think you understand the religon itself to know what it speaks of, when it talks of no guns and everything meaning as by spreading the word, by behaving nice and everything etc. so by your doing may the other see the this religon of proper peace and if wanted would convert by himself, defining as taking over the west by spreading the word.

Because behaving nice means to force one culture upon another or what. Sorry I fail to see what you mean by behaving nice. The Jews behave nice, the majority of Muslim people just cause problems I'm sorry to say that to you but they do.

Actually if some mosques and the preachers just decide to pass laws without the confirmation of the whole country then its justified to deny them this right!
Iam a muslim but nothing gives rights to pass your own laws everywhere

I am glad you think that way.

[Triprift]

I have to say im with WL on this one you cant on one count say come to are country were we are a free country and then take away with another with the Minaret ban. seriously ive never known a muslim to come to my door and try to preach to me yet i get heaps of mormens or christians or whatever other relious ppl at my door trying to shove there beleifs down my throat. Seriously Muslims are like angels compared to the church with its abuse of kids and its infulence in wars and with law makers.

[@RaXxaa@]

If a country with original population A consists of 95% population B, more B people would be in charge and changing that law.

Just an example, if Iran would now feature 95% American inhabitants, wouldn't you think those Americans would try to change Irans laws to match their vision of a country?


YEs as already done to iraq, iran is just a matter of time

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Iraq isn't majority American, not even minority American.

However, it's proven that when Muslims become the head demographic of a country that everything goes to shit. See the Balkans (Kosovo specifically... Pristina went from pristine to... well... not so pristine!) and Caucasus states for proof on that.

[WhiteLotus]

really?

Saudi Arabia is doing quite well. Supplying oil to the world has made them very rich indeed.

it isn't a persons religion that makes them who they are, it their choices in life.

Obama isn't muslim and that country seems to be getting worser by the day by the sounds of the guys that post on here/tpu.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

It's not really, only the older conservatives who fear any kind of step towards quality healthcare, education, etc. etc. spout bad about him. He's doing a lot of good for those who need it.

Also, in Saudi Arabia, you can still get your hands sawed off for theft and the death penalty for being gay. Yes, they have a high income, but socially, the country is fucked.

[jmcslob]

I have to say im with WL on this one you cant on one count say come to are country were we are a free country and then take away with another with the Minaret ban. seriously ive never known a muslim to come to my door and try to preach to me yet i get heaps of mormens or christians or whatever other relious ppl at my door trying to shove there beleifs down my throat. Seriously Muslims are like angels compared to the church with its abuse of kids and its infulence in wars and with law makers.
No, not really...
Anywhere that religion Grows in numbers it also brings ignorance and oppression...
Somebody PLEASE give 1
Just 1 lasting Example of where I'm wrong....
you can't because The same things happen...
Numbers grow..
Fundamentalism Takes root...
Non believers are wiped out or drove out...
Equal rights becomes a dream for women...
It becomes more than just Islam...
Seriously Western society has been fighting this same shit for a few thousand years now....

[momentomoir]

No, not really...
Anywhere that religion Grows in numbers it also brings ignorance and oppression...
Somebody PLEASE give 1
Just 1 lasting Example of where I'm wrong....
you can't because The same things happen...
Numbers grow..
Fundamentalism Takes root...
Non believers are wiped out or drove out...
Equal rights becomes a dream for women...
It becomes more than just Islam...
Seriously Western society has been fighting this same shit for a few thousand years now....

i agree i dont believe in any religion theres too many rules and controlling of your life
its like with Christianity i dont care what denomentation (catholic, baptist, Lutheran) they all have certain bull shit rules like follow the 10 commandments or go to hell then in the new testment its basically saying do whatever the fuck u want but believe in jesus he forgives you
or old testment:eye for and eye and new testment: turn the other cheek
i say more about christianity bc i was a christain
with jews theres some many rules there suppose to follow but dont

i think religion is a load of bull shit imho

[jmcslob]

i agree i dont believe in any religion theres too many rules and controlling of your life
its like with Christianity i dont care what denomentation (catholic, baptist, Lutheran) they all have certain bull shit rules like follow the 10 commandments or go to hell then in the new testment its basically saying do whatever the fuck u want but believe in jesus he forgives you
or old testment:eye for and eye and new testment: turn the other cheek
i say more about christianity bc i was a christain
with jews theres some many rules there suppose to follow but dont

i think religion is a load of bull shit imho
+1 infinity

[Triprift]

Err how many times do you hear of sexual abuse of children in the care of the church to much for my liking. Why arnt all them pedos jailed cus the church covers it up it makes me sick and the wars that have started because of religion. The inqisition there was a an attempt to ram the catholic churchs beleifs down ppls throats by force. Im just saying dont nock muslims when other religions are just as bad and in alot of cases even worse. All 9/11 did was give western racists and extremeist an excuse to cause violence towards muslims when the majority were actually law abiding ppl who caused noone any harm.

[Magibeg]

Personally I'm not a fan of religion in general and much prefer logic and reason. That being said I find aggressive expansions of religious groups somewhat nerve racking. While I may be a little bias (given that most of us here definitely have a western view of the world) I think I would take Christians over Muslims any day based on the likely bias information i have.

[MRCL]

No, not really...
Anywhere that religion Grows in numbers it also brings ignorance and oppression...
Somebody PLEASE give 1
Just 1 lasting Example of where I'm wrong....
you can't because The same things happen...
Numbers grow..
Fundamentalism Takes root...
Non believers are wiped out or drove out...
Equal rights becomes a dream for women...
It becomes more than just Islam...
Seriously Western society has been fighting this same shit for a few thousand years now....

I just read in a newspaper, that the Turkish European Minister told his people to withdraw their money from Switzerland and rather give it to the Turkish banks. Now, its a harsh but somewhat understandable reaction, BUT:
1. Swiss people spending their vacation there (and there are many people) bring money to Turkey.
2. Turkey wants us to be tolerant towards their religion, they call us islamophobic. Yet, "our" religion gets bashed there even worse, chruches are destroyed, christians are being hunted, and don't ever talk about your Christianity in public, it can get you hurt or killed, with little or no consequences.

This is what makes me sick; Accusing somebody of not being tolerant etc, but in turn being even more intolerant themself.

[Cuzza]

No, not really...
Anywhere that religion Grows in numbers it also brings ignorance and oppression...


I guess ignorance and oppression have been on the rise all of human history then.

Don't you see, your "non-religion" is the new religion. You are negative towards the believers of other "actual" religions. If you had your way you would stop the believers believing in anything. You are ignorant of them and want to oppress them. You're just another link in a cycle you profess to oppose.

EDIT: Sorry if that sounded like a personal attack, I didn't mean it that way. I mean it to apply to the general movement of secularists/atheists/agnostics/ whatever you want to call them. They think they are different from religious people They are not; they still have a belief system, something above and beyond what the human being, as a simply earthly creature, is. They're just in denial about it. To give up "religion" completely is to return to just being another animal.

[Steevo]

I am still one of Jehovahs Witnesses, not a good one by any means, but I believe what is taught and try and follow the rules.

Don't smoke.
Dont get shitfaced out of control.
Do pay my taxes.
Do my civic duty
Do not vote (didn't before I decided to try the religion)
Stopped fucking around
Take care of my wife and kids
Pay my bills
Stay clean


And yes occasionally I go and knock on doors. I have the magic words here for you to say if you do not want them coming back. Listen carefully, they don't want to waste yours or their time if you have no desire for them to be there.

Say in a polite and calm manner "Please do not come back" Ignoring them or being rude will not stop them. Hitler coudn't, the corrrupt bribed supreme court couldn't, Russia coudn't, you cant. But just asking and being a polite human being will.


As far as other religions go, they are disgusting, I have attended too many where the preacher had the biggest and best of everythign as he milked the people, or those pervy priests, or the assholes who only give on thanksgiving, and christmas and then the rest of the time call the cops on the poor, or condemn them for not giving to the church. I have a firsthand experiance in this, a friend at school had the best of everything, and her parents treated me like shit at the time as my family had to save up to be poor. They had none of the "fruits of the spirit" they talked about on Sunday, they were reserved for the more well off members.


Anyway, remember. "Please do not come back". Clear, and polite.

[@RaXxaa@]

It's not really, only the older conservatives who fear any kind of step towards quality healthcare, education, etc. etc. spout bad about him. He's doing a lot of good for those who need it.

Also, in Saudi Arabia, you can still get your hands sawed off for theft and the death penalty for being gay. Yes, they have a high income, but socially, the country is fucked.

Um just because of that one thing, NO mugging, theft/robbery rapes,murders etc! Yh they are doing better than the rest of the world right now as a fact.

And the law has been told to everyone to follow, if they dont those are the consequences, but if then they dont follow then well its really thier fault

As for bieng gay you get stoned, well a man was created to be with a woman and have a family, not a man with man, thats the basic society, that is why man and man cant have kids, nither woman and woman. Even they if yu wanna be gay then go to a society where they would accept you as bieng gay, Saudi dosent so there is no reason to be gay and still expect not to be stoned.

When you say Islam tells you about being tolerant to others (in this case) well Islam also say that When man is with a man and a woman with a woman its the sign of the end and such acts shall be prohibited.

[jmcslob]

I guess ignorance and oppression have been on the rise all of human history then.

Don't you see, your "non-religion" is the new religion. You are negative towards the believers of other "actual" religions. If you had your way you would stop the believers believing in anything. You are ignorant of them and want to oppress them. You're just another link in a cycle you profess to oppose.

EDIT: Sorry if that sounded like a personal attack, I didn't mean it that way. I mean it to apply to the general movement of secularists/atheists/agnostics/ whatever you want to call them. They think they are different from religious people They are not; they still have a belief system, something above and beyond what the human being, as a simply earthly creature, is. They're just in denial about it. To give up "religion" completely is to return to just being another animal.Personal attack...LOL
Please you can Refer to me as... Dumb shit fuck brains if ya want LOL...
I don't get offended...

I don't see myself as *NON-Religious*
To quote one of my favorite movies....
It's better to have an idea than to have a Belief, cause it's easier to change an idea over a belief....or something like that....

I just don't believe some All Knowing All Seeing Omnipotent Being Created us in it's Image, Just to fuckin spank us because our Bitch sought out some Know How....

Sounds kind of funny worded a little differently, but comes out meaning the same thing...

See I just have a different Idea on things, which is generally backed up by the best scientific knowledge of the day....
And since it's only an Idea If something totally Changes, even if it's extreme, it's like, Yeah...OK...

We are simply one insignificant part of a vast Universe trying to figure the whole what Everything is, and what I get from the Bible, the Holy Qur'an and so on is, that's what People have been doing forever, which is trying to figure out the unknown.

But "Religious People" seem to be caught on the details, and forget that knowledge progresses and that those books were written as an example of Mans understanding of the world around him at that Time.....

For sure by now we know what causes a hurricane so we don't assume Some Diaty was angry at us....Right?

And I don't mind your religion as long as you keep it to yourself and your group, or any religion....
Bring your religion to public by it's influence on you, and don't try to bring your religion to influence the public, and we'll be cool..
It's that simple, Let people who seek whatever knowledge your religion brings find it, just don't force it.

[El Fiendo]

You know, that story always amused me. I always envisioned it as some guy from however many years in the past was still pissed at his woman for 'knowing fucking everything'.

[Steevo]

[QUOTE=jmcslob;18121].

But "Religious People" seem to be caught on the details, and forget that knowledge progresses and that those books were written as an example of Mans understanding of the world around him at that Time.....

For sure by now we know what causes a hurricane so we don't assume Some Diaty was angry at us....Right?

[QUOTE]

I know tht a hurricane is a act of nature, not of God or any other diety.

Really the only idiots who call nature "god" are the insurance companies and some odd "feeling" type religions.

[erocker]

And I don't mind your religion as long as you keep it to yourself and your group, or any religion....
Bring your religion to public by it's influence on you, and don't try to bring your religion to influence the public, and we'll be cool..
It's that simple, Let people who seek whatever knowledge your religion brings find it, just don't force it.

Do you believe that people are that weak minded that public display of some sort of religion will have influence over them? In this country we all have a right to believe or not to believe a religion or faith. Why? So it is public and so we can do it freely. Freedom! If a religion or faith leaves a bad taste in your mouth, how do you think people of a religion or faith think about those without? It's the same, I assure you. Now, who deserves the greater right? Answer, nobody. Publically we have the right to express our religious beliefs or a lack of religious beliefs. If one persons set of ideological beliefs makes them not like a someone else's set of ideological beliefs. Tough, live with it, it's not very hard. Just live your life knowing that you are right because in the end it what may or may not be important.

[Magibeg]

Well the real issue is probably where politics and religion collide. People form their religious beliefs and want the government to behave in a manner similar to their own system. It's only natural for people to think that way. Unfortunately that seems to be where a lot of the clashing starts to form. Take for example Texas trying to push intelligent design into schools, that's a pure result of religious belief that is being spread politically.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Um just because of that one thing, NO mugging, theft/robbery rapes,murders etc! Yh they are doing better than the rest of the world right now as a fact.

And the law has been told to everyone to follow, if they dont those are the consequences, but if then they dont follow then well its really thier fault

As for bieng gay you get stoned, well a man was created to be with a woman and have a family, not a man with man, thats the basic society, that is why man and man cant have kids, nither woman and woman. Even they if yu wanna be gay then go to a society where they would accept you as bieng gay, Saudi dosent so there is no reason to be gay and still expect not to be stoned.

When you say Islam tells you about being tolerant to others (in this case) well Islam also say that When man is with a man and a woman with a woman its the sign of the end and such acts shall be prohibited.

Islam is a religion and should not be used to create laws in a country.

Islam, like many other religions, breed intolerance, hate, and are the cause of much of the trouble in the world.

There's nothing wrong with being gay.

Yes, it's their fault, but there is also no freedom of speech, the infrastructure is undeveloped, and dissidence is met with extreme violence in Saudi Arabia. Yes, the crime is lower, but you can't even speak out about your own government openly.

[Solaris17]

Islam is a religion and should not be used to create laws in a country.

Islam, like many other religions, breed intolerance, hate, and are the cause of much of the trouble in the world.

There's nothing wrong with being gay.

Yes, it's their fault, but there is also no freedom of speech, the infrastructure is undeveloped, and dissidence is met with extreme violence in Saudi Arabia. Yes, the crime is lower, but you can't even speak out about your own government openly.

+1 religion should not make laws. recipe for disaster

[momentomoir]

+1 religion should not make laws. recipe for disaster

is that a lil late didnt the Catholics already do that? I believe Bloody Mary Queen Elizabeth 1st sister tried making rules and killed all non-catholics
defiantly disaster there lol (if im wrong sorry)

[zaqwsx]

Islam is a religion and should not be used to create laws in a country.

Islam, like many other religions, breed intolerance, hate, and are the cause of much of the trouble in the world.

There's nothing wrong with being gay.

Yes, it's their fault, but there is also no freedom of speech, the infrastructure is undeveloped, and dissidence is met with extreme violence in Saudi Arabia. Yes, the crime is lower, but you can't even speak out about your own government openly.


Islam dose not teach hate, there will always be extremist people from every religion that make it bad for everyone. Just because a few guys did something bad doesn’t mean the religion is bad it means that they don’t understand the religion. Another thing is I myself am a Muslim and I myself also say that 9/11 was wrong when asked the question if indeed it was a Muslim that did it. There is no reason to kill innocent people. I also respect your guy’s opinions and it is nice to read what other people think but to say Islam teaches hate without acutely knowing first hand is wrong you can read one verse and bash it all you want but you have to read what came before it and after it to fully understand the whole thing.

Another thing is the Quran has never been changed unlike the bible which has manmade ideas in it the Quran was sent down from God by angle Gabriel to Mohammad. Also the Christians are the closest friends to the Muslims. I also don’t hate Jew’s a very good friend of ours was Jew who recently passed away.

I say people shouldn’t force their religion down people’s throat. But talk about it in a kindly matter.

[jmcslob]

Do you believe that people are that weak minded that public display of some sort of religion will have influence over them? In this country we all have a right to believe or not to believe a religion or faith. Why? So it is public and so we can do it freely. Freedom! If a religion or faith leaves a bad taste in your mouth, how do you think people of a religion or faith think about those without? It's the same, I assure you. Now, who deserves the greater right? Answer, nobody. Publically we have the right to express our religious beliefs or a lack of religious beliefs. If one persons set of ideological beliefs makes them not like a someone else's set of ideological beliefs. Tough, live with it, it's not very hard. Just live your life knowing that you are right because in the end it what may or may not be important.
See what you did right there is put me in a corner....
But remember in Context to this post I gotta say what the Swiss did was Right!

This is not even Close to the first time this has happened....
Look this is what they do, That is, Use our own Western Morals against us.
They make it sound like we are abandoning our Western style Democratic ways so we feel bad and let em in.

it's History, I think the Swiss quite Wisely said..Fuck OFF!

THEY DID NOT TELL THEM THEY CAN'T BE MUSLIM..
They simply said this is the rules at our house

[zaqwsx]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/he_kept_the_change_3mewgRcqMr311EPvag4sjL

[jmcslob]

Islam dose not teach hate, there will always be extremist people from every religion that make it bad for everyone. Just because a few guys did something bad doesn’t mean the religion is bad it means that they don’t understand the religion. Another thing is I myself am a Muslim and I myself also say that 9/11 was wrong when asked the question if indeed it was a Muslim that did it. There is no reason to kill innocent people. I also respect your guy’s opinions and it is nice to read what other people think but to say Islam teaches hate without acutely knowing first hand is wrong you can read one verse and bash it all you want but you have to read what came before it and after it to fully understand the whole thing.

Another thing is the Quran has never been changed unlike the bible which has manmade ideas in it the Quran was sent down from God by angle Gabriel to Mohammad. Also the Christians are the closest friends to the Muslims. I also don’t hate Jew’s a very good friend of ours was Jew who recently passed away.

I say people shouldn’t force their religion down people’s throat. But talk about it in a kindly matter.
The Bible has never Changed, though the books in the Teachings, have been "changed about" such as the most popular Collection of books that is considered the "Bible" Today is the King James Edition...

That however is a good point as to why Most of the Books in the Bible are Locked away in the Vatican...

They should be a matter of the Public..
And I'm 100% sure 99.999999001% of Muslims are Kind people with Good intentions the world over, But Muslim crazies trump all other crazies...

And I'm sorry But anybody with blind faith (that's all religions) Scare the shit out of me....
I could never truly believe without something tangible......
and I'm sorry but if you can believe That deeply in something without any other proof other than a 2000 year book that was originally passed down via word of mouth before it was ever written, even though most of it sounds like a poorly written fairy tale, Then I'm sorry but I have think i have good reason to question your LOGIC at the very least...


But it's all good, i'll still live among you, just as long as you can Live amongst an Infidel/heretic. LOL

Seriously I don't think any Religious Books are silly, I just think it's silly to take them Literally.

As I've said they were written with Man's best understanding of his own Self Awareness and the world around him....

It's just a funny note in history but what's the clinical difference between Severe Schizophrenia Mania and a Prophet....
faith


This post has gone ADD

[Steevo]

Witnesses do not participate in the votiong and making of laws and regulations, or the goverment unless their rights to practice their religion is being hurt.

We do not go to war.
We do not kill other humans.
No accused pedo/molester or rapist can serve any function.
Pay our taxes.
Pay our bills.
Don't have large drunken brawls.
Don't force any other people to observe our religious ideas.
Do take care of our own.
Do take pride in being clean.
Do not allow homosexuality. (but we do not force our views on others, since God gave us all free will and the right to use it, it would be going against the teachings to force someone else to adhere to our standards)
No sex before marriage. ( I failed that one big time, but am now married, and have two kids, and through just my reasoning sex should be outlawed untill people are mature enough for it.)
No drugs (not the mind altering F you up type of drugs, unless they are prescribed)
No smoking
No alcohol abuse. (Abuse is also mishandling and spilling of good whiskey and spirits/beer in my opinion, Jesus did turn water into wine, and the bible clearly states "Wine makes the heart of mortal man rejoice", AKA a good buzz)
Do not eat, or use blood. (Lets not debate this as I have my mind made up, and the use of Heprin as a derivitive of blood from a pig was used by the NICU team to help save my daughters life, the bible means the use of whole blood IMO as a food source or as a transfusion, and medical research has shown the use of blood to be degrading to the bodliy functions, as well as taking more time than the emergency supposedly calls for to save a life. Plus Jesus cleary stated that the laws set forth were not made to be a burden, but as a guideline.)

With other religions you have Christians on each side killing one another filling the patriotic duty of the country they live in. Jesus also said that he was no part of this world, meaning the local goverments, as we should be also. Most religious institutions have a hand in the local countrys goverment and thus in their fights and wars, goign directly against the laws Jesus stated. So how can they be true religions?


99.9% of religions are full of hypocrisy, lies, traditions, and corruption.


And yes, the bible fortells the end of religion, that world goverment will turn against it and destroy it for the foul things it has done.

Every religion has some success stories, unfortunately they look past all the bad each one of the religions have to the god save me, and there is a good comercial, and a huge church that the "in' thing to be long to. Teh Quaran also states it is OK to kill unbelievers, and that goes directly agsinst what Michael,-->Jesus taught.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Again, religion has no business being coupled with state, and when Muslim groups move into a Christian (just as bad) or secular nation, there is unrest and everything becomes fucked. It's true and can be seen all over eastern and southern Europe.

[@RaXxaa@]

Islam is a religion and should not be used to create laws in a country.

Islam, like many other religions, breed intolerance, hate, and are the cause of much of the trouble in the world.

There's nothing wrong with being gay.

Yes, it's their fault, but there is also no freedom of speech, the infrastructure is undeveloped, and dissidence is met with extreme violence in Saudi Arabia. Yes, the crime is lower, but you can't even speak out about your own government openly.

> When the whole country is islamic, belives in islam, and agrees that the country shall run by the laws of islam then its just any outsider isint compatible with the rules, everyone else is living properly....

If nothing is wrong with bieng gay then so should be nothing wrong with murder, assult... etc

[El Fiendo]

And that's the attitude the Dutch are worried about.

[MT Alex]

Witnesses do not participate in the votiong and making of laws and regulations, or the goverment unless their rights to practice their religion is being hurt.

I always used to joke around with my wife, saying that as soon as we had kids we would convert to JWs. That way we could save a bunch of money not having to worry about all of those birthday and Christmas presents. :D

Anyhow, we haven't yet.

[Steevo]

> When the whole country is islamic, belives in islam, and agrees that the country shall run by the laws of islam then its just any outsider isint compatible with the rules, everyone else is living properly....

If nothing is wrong with bieng gay then so should be nothing wrong with murder, assult... etc

What if I decided that along with murder, assualt, rape, torture, and homosexuality, that being muslim was on the same plane?


Woudl I be wrong to kill or imprision you?

If you say yes theen you admit your self superior attitude and extemist views, if you say no they you are saying that everything listed above is OK.


So what will it be?


I always used to joke around with my wife, saying that as soon as we had kids we would convert to JWs. That way we could save a bunch of money not having to worry about all of those birthday and Christmas presents. :D

Anyhow, we haven't yet.


It isn't easy to be one, we are hated for our ethics and doing what is correct more than anything. People hate being shown they are wrong. Samre reason Hitler imprisoned and totrured/murdere witnesses, they woudnt do his dirty work, and for that we got the same treatment from the US and other coutries.

[@RaXxaa@]

I would ask you of proof and before that i would never go into any religon stating that to be a true muslim i have to kill and murder people and rape them, because i know i dont wanna kill anyone or rape anyone

And gay are also banned cuz it is a sign of end according to Islam and is banned

[Steevo]

I'm not saying you have to do those acts, but to say that any act like homosexuality or even murder is wrong is merely a idea propagated by the masses. So if the masses or majority say that being Muslim is wrong just like those is it then OK to kill you for being Muslim?


According to your religion/majority if you are gay then you are to be put to death.

What makes that right for you to do, or to say? Nothing other than the majority believe so, and the fact you think you have a right to. Unfortunately in the rest of the world you do not, and to try and force your idea might spark the feeling from others to you, that you have for a homosexual.


So, again I ask the question. If I and everyone else decided that being Muslim were worthy of death along with murder, rape, etc... would that be OK?

[Magibeg]

Just putting it out there that being gay probably isn't a choice. Anyone who has actually spent any time with people that are gay would probably realize that. Also homosexuality exists in the wild as well, and if we're all created in gods image doesn't that make god atleast a little bit gay as well?

[btarunr]

If we're all created in gods image doesn't that make god atleast a little bit gay as well?

God doesn't need a sexual orientation.

[Magibeg]

God doesn't need a sexual orientation.

You're right he doesn't, but doesn't the fact that homosexuality occurs naturally in the wild indicate it's something more than a choice factor.

[MRCL]

and if we're all created in gods image doesn't that make god atleast a little bit gay as well?

Then God has to look a little bit like a gay black midget with ginger hair, too? Thats a bit of a wide approach there.

Homosexuality indeed exists in nature, but its pointless from an evolutionary point of view - no offspring. I have nothing against gay people, its their choice, nobody should dictate them what to do. And it doesn't hurt anybody, so its stupid to say ban gays and murders in the same sentence. Loving the same gender and ripping ones heart out isn't even remotely the same.

And preaching tolerance towards Islam, yet whip a guys back a thousand times because he just doesn't like women that much... how do you justify that?
The Islamic religion allows people to be killed by throwing stones at them, so don't wonder why the western countries have such a bad opinion about Islam.

I don't intend to offend anyone personally here by the way, I just express my opinion.

[Magibeg]

I have nothing against gay people, its their choice, nobody should dictate them what to do.


Well really my original point was that homosexuality isn't a choice. While i'm not going to debate the evolutionary purpose of which it appears to occur naturally in mammals. I feel that's a strong argument towards it not being a choice because most animals are not capable of complex thought and have nothing to gain from being gay which eliminates a lot of reasons that could be claimed as to why people would choice to be gay.

[MRCL]

Well really my original point was that homosexuality isn't a choice. While i'm not going to debate the evolutionary purpose of which it appears to occur naturally in mammals. I feel that's a strong argument towards it not being a choice because most animals are not capable of complex thought and have nothing to gain from being gay which eliminates a lot of reasons that could be claimed as to why people would choice to be gay.

It indeed is not a choice like "hey, how about I start being gay from now on". Its programmed in to you that you have those ...*grabs dictionary* ...affections, some more, some less, some don't. I meant it more as a choice to stand for those feelings. Accepting your feelings. And not pretend not to be gay just so that a mob doesn't lynch you.

[DrPepper]

Atheism rocks because we don't get offended if we can't build places or worship. Maybe all religions should take a look at atheists and copy our attitude.

[zaqwsx]

Well her is one question what if your wronge or im wronge can you answer that?

Edit: My answer would be if im wrong nothing happens to me but if your wronge you go to hell. Simple

[Magibeg]

Well her is one question what if your wronge or im wronge can you answer that?

Well I'm assuming that's appealing to the old arguement that if god exists and atheists are wrong we burn forever but if we go to religion and we're wrong we'd just die normally.

But my argument would be to you is that how do you know out of all the religions that yours is correct? Maybe we're supposed to be worshiping a magical orange tree with a talking elephant. Or a mystical invisible dragon. The possibilities are nearly infinite which means we'd have a nearly infinite chance of being incorrect regardless of what we worship. There is no evidence that god exists outside of faith just like there's no evidence mystical invisible dragons would exist outside of faith.

[zaqwsx]

Comes down to you need to research what you want to believe. There are 3 main religions and from there it just branches off. So yes who knows but from what I have seen and asked myself, Islam is the best for me and all other religions don’t make sense to me unless you can somehow convince me otherwise. Just my opinion no offence to anyone.

[Magibeg]

Comes down to you need to research what you want to believe. There are 3 main religions and from there it just branches off. So yes who knows but from what I have seen and asked myself, Islam is the best for me and all other religions don’t make sense to me unless you can somehow convince me otherwise. Just my opinion no offence to anyone.

Never wanted to change your opinion. Although I'm definitely a pretty strong agnostic (can never say with absolute certainty that god doesn't exist) everyone should just pick the religion that works best for their belief system. I don't think you'll offend anyone stating your opinion unless they're especially sensitive anyway.

[zaqwsx]

I also dont see anything wrong with giving advice about a religion when on the subject or asked the question. But forcing people to follow your religion is wrong.

[FordGT90Concept]

FYI, Switzerland has 4 Minarets now and Muslims only constitute 4% of their population. I think the ban was preemptive.

[DrPepper]

Well her is one question what if your wronge or im wronge can you answer that?

Edit: My answer would be if im wrong nothing happens to me but if your wronge you go to hell. Simple

My question would be what is hell. Are we already in hell because there is already plenty of suffering.

[@RaXxaa@]

I'm not saying you have to do those acts, but to say that any act like homosexuality or even murder is wrong is merely a idea propagated by the masses. So if the masses or majority say that being Muslim is wrong just like those is it then OK to kill you for being Muslim?


According to your religion/majority if you are gay then you are to be put to death.

What makes that right for you to do, or to say? Nothing other than the majority believe so, and the fact you think you have a right to. Unfortunately in the rest of the world you do not, and to try and force your idea might spark the feeling from others to you, that you have for a homosexual.


So, again I ask the question. If I and everyone else decided that being Muslim were worthy of death along with murder, rape, etc... would that be OK?



What makes that so, well when you are muslim and still are doing is prohibited then well you have a punishment to it, either you leave the religon and the country that you cant keep up with or just face the punishments pre specified.

Then you should have a proper evidence to support that having a differnt religon is wrong and that order would have to pass through the amendments that do not follow , basically you are not following any rules to prove Islam is wrong and will end up killing thousands or millions, again that was pre told that it will happen when the whole world will be against muslims and well muslims will come through as the survivors, so every or some who follow the religon will fight but will not happen any time soon but it will happen

[@RaXxaa@]

Just putting it out there that being gay probably isn't a choice. Anyone who has actually spent any time with people that are gay would probably realize that. Also homosexuality exists in the wild as well, and if we're all created in gods image doesn't that make god atleast a little bit gay as well?

According to muslims god is not a shape of a human being so bieng gay or and color is out of the question

[@RaXxaa@]

Just to say that only way to know if god exist is that you get to see him, but then again its only a one way ticket so yeah cant prove that, and as back to topic, ban was useless, as people still now use speakers so shortining the tower dosent change that much as its not a person, rather loudspeakers which can still be heard with or without a minarate, so there is no basic point to ban.....

and just to say there have been events that are enough evidence for us to belive in our God and his prophet and thier teaching. such as when Hazdrat Musa PBUH or Moses met god on the mountain (not sure which one as i really forget names) where he took human companions with him to meet god, but light was so much that the mountain of dirt turned to black color and still is, and although the humans died they were brought back to life.

AND by the way Kabah is not a metroid it is a mud made place which is hollow in side, why say this, because for some reason people believe so

[MRCL]

ban was useless, as people still now use speakers so shortining the tower dosent change that much as its not a person, rather loudspeakers which can still be heard with or without a minarate, so there is no basic point to ban.....

Wait what? The minarets are not going to be shortened, I never said that, the ban is that no new minarets can be built. The four that are already here will remain. And speakers were prohibited long before that minaret ban idea arose.

FordGT is presumably right, it is a preemptive initiative.

[@RaXxaa@]

IAM SORRY TO SAY SHORTEN..... same thing.... anyway if new are not built and speakers are banned, then they are gonna maybe have a ladder aside and still give prayer, so still i dont see much of a point, cause i have seen prayers without people climbing up and or using speakers, not much of a difference, people have clocks, and well to give out prayer call is nessecery so they do give out a prayer call but people also come by time or sunset etc

[MRCL]

It worked out for decades without publicly shouted prayers just fine, nobody actually complained, why should that be changed now?

[@RaXxaa@]

i dunno cuz the population wasnt enough before! now it maybe is... as in a vast area where it might be needed.


but i dun get 5 times in 24 hours, or five mins total in 24 hours and its ripping thier brain out?

[zaqwsx]

No offence but I found this online.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs069.snc3/13633_363462915234_699350234_10179831_8098195_n.jp g

[jmcslob]

Just think about this...
if Muslims Feel bad about a Minaret ban in Switzerland, just think about how the Assyrian's feel Well everywhere....

[jmcslob]

No offence but I found this online.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs069.snc3/13633_363462915234_699350234_10179831_8098195_n.jp gIt's a bit more complicated than that but yeah....That's about it...
and it's going to happen again and again with every possible variation from now to infinity...

Just think if I'm right we had this chat before, and it'll happen again, and at one point you convinced me and I converted to Islam.....

it's seems so fucked up but the Universe is Infinite and Time is not linear nor does it even exist.....

everything that has happened will happen and will continue to happen every possibility that could have happened has happened etc etc...

[Magibeg]

No offence but I found this online.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs069.snc3/13633_363462915234_699350234_10179831_8098195_n.jp g

Well that's not really the belief. That probably more closely resembles religious believe with the exception of the first nothing being god.

The belief that god made something happen to nothing and then nothing magically appeared creating everything and everything was created already arranged.

[MRCL]

No offence but I found this online.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs069.snc3/13633_363462915234_699350234_10179831_8098195_n.jp g

Yeah well SOMETHING had to be there first, i just don't believe it was a guy floating around in nothing and then creating everything... I mean, he'd have to come from somewhere.

[WhiteLotus]

where did matter come from? = Where did god come from?

If god can be there since forever, then why not matter.

No matter how you put it, the two are interchangeable, one just doesn't require you to believe in a god/s.

[Black Panther]

INTOLERANCE = I'm perfect, you aren't = you're bad and you got to change.
Here's a joke I heard and which I modified to suit this thread:


A man arrived at the gates of Heaven.

St. Peter asked, "Religion?"

The man said, "Religion X."

St. Peter looked down his list and said," Go to Room 24, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8."

Another man arrived at the gates of Heaven.

"Religion?"

"Religion Y"

"Go to Room 18, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8."

A third man arrived at the gates.

"Religion?"

"Religion Z"

"Go to Room 11 but be very quiet as you pass Room 8."

The man said, "I can understand there being different rooms for different religions, but why must I be quiet when I pass Room 8?"

St. Peter told him, "Well, the **intolerant guys** are in Room 8, and they think they're the only ones here."



Minarets, skyscrapers or whatever - any building should be banned only if by being there it'd damage the view/environment/neighbouring style of buildings etc... definitely not for any other purpose.

@ zaqwsx: after the dinosaurs? Then what?

@ MRCL: ok that guy didn't appear from nowhere and he created everything. Someone/thing created him. But what about that someone/thing? Did he appear from nowhere? Nope... someone/thing created him... and what about tha..... and so on and so forth......

[MRCL]

@ MRCL: ok that guy didn't appear from nowhere and he created everything. Someone/thing created him. But what about that someone/thing? Did he appear from nowhere? Nope... someone/thing created him... and what about tha..... and so on and so forth......

Exactly, its one big giant chain of events, going backwards and backwards and backwards... also the scientific approach with the big bang theory hasn't an answer to what has been there before. Its just very easy to have an answer by saying: Well God created everything. If the answer to everything unknown is "God made that" "God intended that", its an answer to something mankind doesn't know. But in my view that answer is just too easy. Don't get me wrong, its a good thing if people can hold on to God or whatever they believe in to have hope. But trying to answer everything with God, for me, this is having blind faith and not questioning/researching anything, and thats kinda bad.

[zaqwsx]

@ Black- I just found it on facebook from a friend.

IMO though Gob is God he was there and then he created everything starting from Adam and Eve. It comes down to what you want to believe. For example religion is not a theory but evolution, and the big bang is a theory. At the same time they are manmade ideas. The bible has been changed with manmade ideas. If it’s one thing I know it’s that everyone has their own idea of how they want to run things. Without set rules everything would be crazy. But imo I don’t want to fallow a human’s idea. I’m a Muslim myself and it makes perfect sense to me.

This is just my opinion I’m not trying to bash anyone.

[Black Panther]

Exactly, its one big giant chain of events, going backwards and backwards and backwards... also the scientific approach with the big bang theory hasn't an answer to what has been there before. Its just very easy to have an answer by saying: Well God created everything. If the answer to everything unknown is "God made that" "God intended that", its an answer to something mankind doesn't know. But in my view that answer is just too easy. Don't get me wrong, its a good thing if people can hold on to God or whatever they believe in to have hope. But trying to answer everything with God, for me, this is having blind faith and not questioning/researching anything, and thats kinda bad.

Whenever I try to think about anything similar I find myself inside an infinite loop of thoughts.

Like it's ok, God created everything... but then... who created God... and in which place did God start to exist and what made that in the first place?

Same as when I think about the universe and its boundaries (let's leave God aside for a while)... we know the universe only up to the limits that scientists have discovered. Whatever lies beyond, or still undiscovered, is beyond our knowledge.

Sometimes I equate the human race with a virus.
Imagine this virus... what does it know about its place of existence? Perhaps the DNA or RNA it infects, the bloodstream which carries it, or the pumping heart which for it would be the God which enables everything in its own little universe to run clock-work fine? This virus knows nothing about the human into which it's being a parasite. It knows nothing of the streets, the countries, and the world in which its host human is living its own life.

Sometimes, it's scary but I get the feeling that us humans are just similar to (or perhaps equal to) our own viruses, living inside some micro but-to-us macro-cosmical cell forming part of an unimaginably larger being which in its turn is living on land forming part of a humongous planet....

I mean just imagine a little virus in your own body, what would he know of his surroundings....

The same would we be knowing about our surroundings and what's beyond, if we happen to be just microscopical entities inhabitating a much much vaster universe than our scientists ever imagined.

Normally I just don't think about what I wrote above because it makes my head hurt, and above all, because nobody'd care.... lol

[Wile E]

Exactly, its one big giant chain of events, going backwards and backwards and backwards... also the scientific approach with the big bang theory hasn't an answer to what has been there before. Its just very easy to have an answer by saying: Well God created everything. If the answer to everything unknown is "God made that" "God intended that", its an answer to something mankind doesn't know. But in my view that answer is just too easy. Don't get me wrong, its a good thing if people can hold on to God or whatever they believe in to have hope. But trying to answer everything with God, for me, this is having blind faith and not questioning/researching anything, and thats kinda bad.

It's just as much a display of faith to believe in the big bang. Neither theory (God or big bang) can be proven.

[skotosa]

It's just as much a display of faith to believe in the big bang. Neither theory (God or big bang) can be proven.

Big Bang is currently in the works of being proven as well as "Theory of Everything", the "God Theory" or the more commonly known as String Theory. All thanks to the Large Hadron Collider, might take a while but they will get there.

[Wile E]

Big Bang is currently in the works of being proven as well as "Theory of Everything", the "God Theory" or the more commonly known as String Theory. All thanks to the Large Hadron Collider, might take a while but they will get there.

Then again, they may get nowhere, and just pose more questions than answers.

And thus again, it comes down to faith and beliefs, not fact.

[skotosa]

Then again, they may get nowhere, and just pose more questions than answers.

And thus again, it comes down to faith and beliefs, not fact.

Yes true but I grow more confident with each passing day. What would be funny if the events of Half Life series play out due to this in the future when HL is forgotten.

[Wile E]

Yes true but I grow more confident with each passing day.
That, by definition, is faith.

[skotosa]

That, by definition, is faith.

True again, but the whole thing is why? My faith grows with each day due what knowledge is gained almost daily which in turn support String Theory. On the contrary the opposite is happening with religions of today with science nearly debunking it on a daily bases yet people still have faith in their religion.
I'm not arguing you on faith, only on what can be and is being proven.

[zaqwsx]

I havnt really seen science debunking on faith. I have actuly seen it the other way around but this is in Islam. Idk about the other religions.

[Black Panther]

It's just as much a display of faith to believe in the big bang. Neither theory (God or big bang) can be proven.

Then again, they may get nowhere, and just pose more questions than answers.

And thus again, it comes down to faith and beliefs, not fact.

But then you quote 'faith', what is faith? It's a fail-safe release valve to explain everything, nothing else...

I believe us humans are much stronger than faith, in that we are capable to understand much more than what is fed to us through blind-folded-religious-or-otherwise faith.

'Tis true, being a good person makes one a better entity on the whole -- should karma enter here? I dunno?

Though I inherently keep thinking that having a blind faith is bad, no matter one's religious (or otherwise) devotion. One should keep looking, questioning, seeking for answers....... one day someone might get a whiff of the truth....

One might not agree with the above but at least one would surely agree with not being spoonfed religious dogma but just envisioning what made us, perhaps what we are part of, and to what we were planned to contribute to finally at the end...... even though we mightn't be understanding any heck about it all at this present moment of time (which I'm positive we aren't) (u)(ww)(u)

In my own (somewhat I dunno if it's an) agnostic view one should just see where one places in this world. Kinda like me, Black Panther, what is my purpose? Why have I been put inside this weak physical body to go through such hardships associated with it? Why had I been physically construed like this? With all my limitations? What is my purpose? Can I do good at all? If no, can my bad acts teach good unto others?

Where are you?

What do you think you are?

What influence, if any, are you imposing on your surroundings?

Are you at peace for posing such influence?

IE is it you yourself wishing thus for the good of humanity.........

Or are you just expressing somebody else's wishes?

Such thoughts can be very comforting,
or
they might result to be very scary indeed, if one realises that the entity in control of all the emotions is not oneself after all.... but somebody else's....

Having thoughts reflecting others' is very scary. Enormously scary.... 'cause one can never really know what's inside the minds of "those other" entities..........

Who is God after all?
Who knows whether our God is really God, or whether he's only another entity only there to support proof of an even higher entity, an even more powerful God...

One thing I know for sure, that whatever there is or whoever is there, I can rest and feel comfortable that they won't care.

The God I believe in is the one who supports me, you, and all of us with all of our defects in this life.
He accepts us.
That's what really helps me, that whatsoever-stuff-I-might-really-hard-to-try I'd be appreciated for giving my best effort, and so would anyone similarly trying be similarly appreciated.

At the end of the day one might say..... who the heck cares who created God.... as long as he takes good care of us and allows us to "keep going on" while maintaining our sanity and keeping shrinks at bay (nutlick)
(toast)

[@RaXxaa@]

If a faith was never belived in then nothing exist, according to me Atheist just belive everything happen forget that and move on( my point of view no offense). Being a muslim does not give out a pass to heaven, being of any religon will give you a pass to heaven or even being of no religon will be counted just by your deeds, Every religon tells that, but its human nature not to follow what is thier and try and be a smartass and make yourself look like an idiot....
Thats the world we know today is like, mostly just business... etc and a human will never follow simple instructions and come up with dumbest theories to disprove everything...
If everyone minded thier own business and followed thier religon no matter what doing good deed as they are told in every faith or religon, we would never end up sitting in our homes typing up in some forums just to prove anything.....!

Animals are doing well cause they follow the natural path but humans have destroyed everything by using thier useless brains.

[FordGT90Concept]

Atheism isn't a belief. To tie an atheism to some existing belief theory like evolution is a logical fallacy. An atheist may fall back on evolution in order to give context to an argument against a belief system but are they about to bow down to Barney? Hell no. Atheists don't care what happened before their birth or what comes after death. If those matters concern them then they aren't an atheist.


This is why preaching to an atheist falls on deaf ears. Most who follow a religion do so because they can't grasp the concept of death being the end of life, permanently. Atheist have no trouble coming to terms with that inevitability. They don't expect to be "saved," "resurrected," or whatever they are calling it today and they are completely fine with that. They have already accepted their fate and that, at bare minimum, is admirable. They are not compelled to grasp at straws (religions) to explain or substitute some other inevitability as their fate.

[@RaXxaa@]

Athiest belive that there is no god, it is thier belief. And well evolution never happened and some scientest have proven it, just a while ago i looked it up on google, both, evolution is true and false, and being false had proper facts and readings in it, and true just didnt provide and basic reasoning or proven facts etc....

[FordGT90Concept]

Exactly my point. "Atheism" was coined to shun those that didn't believe in what the 16th century "church" was preaching. It was meant to mock those that cared not of religion. Atheism was invented under the context of a preexisting belief; as such, it is very difficult for an atheist to explain what atheism really means. A belief in nothing is not a belief.


How do you know if you are an atheist? You don't think about religion until someone else brings it up.


When an atheist brings up evolution, it is not necessarily because they believe evolution is correct or incorrect. It is merely an example of competing theory of why we need not rely on the religious for the origins of the universe. Atheists know they came from their parents and beyond that, they don't care.

[Magibeg]

Well atheism is more along the lines, in my eyes anyway, of not believing anything without a reasonable cause and reasonable evidence. I wouldn't say I'm not concerned with dieing, i realize it's going to happen and based on the evidence i have no reason to believe there's an afterlife.

I also know i came from my parents, and i have to say it's a purely scientific interest to know where they came from and further back. You will never find a creationist atheist for example because there's no evidence for creationism. Which is probably why evolution and atheism becomes closely connected. Most atheist you encounter will also probably believe the big bang theory. Not because we choose not to believe in god but because the big bang theory helps to explain the universe in the current state that it's in.

Usually atheists only think about religion when it's brought up, when politics and religion mix, when Texas tries to introduce intelligent design in schools, or other religion related reasons. All atheists want is evidence otherwise there's no reason to believe something is there.

http://futurity.org/society-culture/gods-beliefs-mirror-our-own/

[FordGT90Concept]

An atheist that needs evidence to "believe" in atheism isn't an atheist. You could call atheism the epitome of ignorance but how is something that doesn't exist and expression of ignorance? There's very little difference between an individual believing in "little green men" compared to atheist believing in <insert religious context here>: in the eyes of both, the claims are easily dismissed as ludacris.

[Magibeg]

Atheists don't need evidence to believe in atheism, never really said that. Just an atheist shouldn't believe in a god/afterlife/etc etc without there being strong evidence to indicate there being so. Atheist is a strange term because it's a category for people that don't believe in something. Atheism is simply the results of people not believing in things others do due to lack of evidence. Lack of evidence creates atheism.

[FordGT90Concept]

Atheism is a class created by the religious to classify the soulless, damned, and potential converts. Each atheist choosing that path has their own reasons (hatred of the church, unwillingness to adhere to the church's rules/laws, resentment towards the "faithful," etc.). "Evidence" is a relatively modern twist on an old practice.

[WhiteLotus]

Nope i'm a 100% atheist because there is no God.

Believing one is an easy escape from the questions that will constantly plague mankind for all time.

[DrPepper]

I havnt really seen science debunking on faith. I have actuly seen it the other way around but this is in Islam. Idk about the other religions.

You can't debunk faith though. By it's definition it's impossible to disprove someone's faith in something.

As far as religions go if I could have been any it would have been buddhist. Out of all the religion's buddhism is the most peaceful and no matter what other religions say about peace they can't compare to buddhism's track record.

[Steevo]

I believe God is a omnipotetnt being that spans all the dimentions and simply moved some of his energy into existance in our dimention. He then did with it as he saw fit, be it through a big bang, direct creation, or whatever.

The bible was written so peopel at the time it was written coudl understand the basic outline of how they came to be. From the standpoint of someone who was on earth.

Really the creatino part of the bible is hugely gapped, and was made to be so, trying to explain DNA, RNA, enzymes, cell division, and other things to a much more primative people would be like telling it to a infant. So a much simpler and easy to understand way was put forth.

Can you understand cutting edge string theory? Probably not without a masters in the subject, and that is rooted in thousands of years of research. So to defiine the bible as wrong or inaccurate due to the context with which it was written is poor understanding on your part.

The bible contains many factual events, places, and ideas. Like washing, cleaning, burying waste, using copper for holding certain items, quarintining of the sick, family life, etc....

You just have to understand that about 85% of the bible are stories that were easy to retell and taught a good lesson. The other percentage is prophecy, laws and regulations. So far the propheceys are true from a archeological standpoint, the laws are sound for a good governing of the people, and the regulations are still in use today.

[FordGT90Concept]

I believe God is a omnipotetnt being that spans all the dimentions and simply moved some of his energy into existance in our dimention. ...
Don't we put people that believe there is an imaginary presence in an insane asylum? You know, like guys who have imaginary girlfriends or gals that have imaginary boyfriends. How is this any different?

To each their own. It concerns me not.


Prophecies are also known as vague writings. Anything put vague enough will always come true...more than once.

Laws are meant to be authored by those that must abide by them. A 500+ year old interpretation of a 1000+ year old book is a bad reference for current law. The three major religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism), for example, all preach chauvinism publicly and privately. Is it not a coincidence that all three teachings were written by men?

There's nothing special about the bible or any other religious text. As proof of that, I bet in 500 years, Scientology will be spread much like those three previously named religions today. All tales start somewhere and the morale of the story is the same: cultism.

[skotosa]

I remember reading that the Bible plagiarized many of its stories from other cultural events from ancient religions before it from different countries like ancient Greece and India. You could actually look those up and see for your self just what they took. In the end, not very many things in the Bible are original.

[jmcslob]

I believe God is a omnipotetnt being that spans all the dimentions and simply moved some of his energy into existance in our dimention. He then did with it as he saw fit, be it through a big bang, direct creation, or whatever.

The bible was written so peopel at the time it was written coudl understand the basic outline of how they came to be. From the standpoint of someone who was on earth.

Really the creatino part of the bible is hugely gapped, and was made to be so, trying to explain DNA, RNA, enzymes, cell division, and other things to a much more primative people would be like telling it to a infant. So a much simpler and easy to understand way was put forth.

Can you understand cutting edge string theory? Probably not without a masters in the subject, and that is rooted in thousands of years of research. So to defiine the bible as wrong or inaccurate due to the context with which it was written is poor understanding on your part.

The bible contains many factual events, places, and ideas. Like washing, cleaning, burying waste, using copper for holding certain items, quarintining of the sick, family life, etc....

You just have to understand that about 85% of the bible are stories that were easy to retell and taught a good lesson. The other percentage is prophecy, laws and regulations. So far the propheceys are true from a archeological standpoint, the laws are sound for a good governing of the people, and the regulations are still in use today.

I simply look for answers and only believe I will always learn more...
i don't dismiss Religious books....

But i don't take them literally...
I think they are just Good Guides to Human understanding of the world around him...and stories of real events (drastically enhanced though)

I still don't believe in an all Omnipotent being.....

I agree religious books and old Greek philosophy should be seen for what it is...Mans best understanding of the world around him...

I think most religions get stuck on the details of these books and close the minds of there followers, But as long as thats ok with those people its ok with me..

As long as they understand I will never limit Myself because i can't...It's just what makes me. Me.....

Or from there point of view thats just how god made me LOL
That brings up another point..

Why would god create Gay people just to make them burn in hell for being what he created them to be?

I don't think Atheists don't believe in anything.....Just what's tangible, or has at least some type of Honest evidence...

This is nothing new....the Renaissance comes to mind....
here is another odd thought Take the rise of the church out of the equation Put in Renaissance and where would we be now?

I can't stop babbling cause im high :rolleyes:

i think I originally had a well thought out answer about something but i cant remember what

What......

I need to take a shower

[WhiteLotus]

i believe what can be proven. imo believing in god restricts that. it's too easy to say "god wills it". sorry but thats a cop out.

[DrPepper]

the laws are sound for a good governing of the people, and the regulations are still in use today.

The laws in the bible are too old to apply to any modern culture. There are very obscure bizarre laws that are inhumane and cruel. I don't know them without going and looking but I know that there are some in there.

At least the 10 commandments has the golden rule which is thou shall not kill. Interesting to notice this is in every culture in one way or another except in buddhism where it is I shall not harm another living being which is significantly greater than I shall not kill because that leaves room to make a living being suffer.

[zaqwsx]

Don't we put people that believe there is an imaginary presence in an insane asylum? You know, like guys who have imaginary girlfriends or gals that have imaginary boyfriends. How is this any different?

To each their own. It concerns me not.


Prophecies are also known as vague writings. Anything put vague enough will always come true...more than once.

Laws are meant to be authored by those that must abide by them. A 500+ year old interpretation of a 1000+ year old book is a bad reference for current law. The three major religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism), for example, all preach chauvinism publicly and privately. Is it not a coincidence that all three teachings were written by men?

There's nothing special about the bible or any other religious text. As proof of that, I bet in 500 years, Scientology will be spread much like those three previously named religions today. All tales start somewhere and the morale of the story is the same: cultism.

The 3 major religions were not written by man but sent down by god. But over time the Torah and the Bible have been changed but the Quran has never been changed.

The best law is the Sharia Law is the best law becuase it is for the people. Humans need order and without it, it would be a mess.

[DrPepper]

The 3 major religions were not written by man but sent down by god. But over time the Torah and the Bible have been changed but the Quran has never been changed.

The best law is the Sharia Law is the best law becuase it is for the people. Humans need order and without it, it would be a mess.

It's interesting to note that sharia law is similar to judaic law and christian law.

[zaqwsx]

Well yes becuase all three books are from god. But like I said the Torah and the Bible have been altered.

[zaqwsx]

Another thing is that people say if there is a God then why doesn’t he help me or do something for me well that ruins the point if he was there to do everything for you. We have brains we can think; indeed we will have our good time and hard times. In the end we will be judged by our actions

[DrPepper]

Another thing is that people say if there is a God then why doesn’t he help me or do something for me well that ruins the point if he was there to do everything for you. We have brains we can think; indeed we will have our good time and hard times. In the end we will be judged by our actions

but god is omnipotent so either he doesn't care or he's lazy.

[zaqwsx]

God is neither. We have the rules in the books they are there so why not fallow them. If everyone wanted everything the way the wanted it wouldn’t work right. For example the Jesus died for our sins so that makes it ok to go commit sins then repent and then start the cycle all over again and you automatically go to haven. Thats bull imo.

[FordGT90Concept]

At least the 10 commandments has the golden rule which is thou shall not kill.
...unless in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets (paraphrasing Voltaire, I think). The crusades and jihadism prove that. (nutkick)


Well yes becuase all three books are from god. But like I said the Torah and the Bible have been altered.
More like the old testament came first through Judaism, man thought it not good enough and added the new testament becoming Christianity. Some time later, a guy named Muhammad reinvented the old/new testament into his own cult creating Islam. If God is a group of humans, then you'd be correct.

The irony of it is that none of those religions are really creative or imaginative. I suppose it wouldn't gain any traction if it weren't at least plausible.


but god is omnipotent so either he doesn't care or he's lazy.
...or is a figment of a collective imagination. ;)

[DrPepper]

Something like "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets"

Whose side would god take in a fight between two nations of the same faith ?

[zaqwsx]

...unless in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets (paraphrasing Voltaire, I think). The crusades and jihadism prove that. (nutkick)



More like the old testament came first through Judaism, man thought it not good enough and added the new testament becoming Christianity. Some time later, a guy named Muhammad reinvented the old/new testament into his own cult creating Islam. If God is a group of humans, then you'd be correct.

The irony of it is that none of those religions are really creative or imaginative. I suppose it wouldn't gain any traction if it weren't at least plausible.



...or is a figment of a collective imagination. ;)

How can you say "a guy named Muhammad reinvented the old/new testament into his own cult creating Islam." The quran came from god through Gabrial to Mohammad. What your saying is your own thoughts.

[Magibeg]

How can you say "a guy named Muhammad reinvented the old/new testament into his own cult creating Islam." The quran came from god through Gabrial to Mohammad. What your saying is your own thoughts.

So how exactly do you know it's from god and not him making stuff up and saying it's from god. Why wouldn't god speak to all people at once instead of the odd 1.

[DrPepper]

That's true but outside of the bible and the quran there is no mention of the prophet mohammed at all.

[jmcslob]

More like the old testament came first through Judaism, man thought it not good enough and added the new testament becoming Christianity. Some time later, a guy named Muhammad reinvented the old/new testament into his own cult creating Islam.

If I remember right the Bible ends at Joseph and his Mother Rebecka and The Qu~ran begins...I could be wrong but i do believe that's where Islam starts, Something about Joseph being his Fathers Chosen Son but not the eldest...

feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.....

And obviously the Jews end at the Old testament

And Catholics are own there own....

[@RaXxaa@]

So how exactly do you know it's from god and not him making stuff up and saying it's from god. Why wouldn't god speak to all people at once instead of the odd 1.

Well then again there would be no prophets, every next person would be a prophet and as human nature is they will justify themselves as they are superior by bieng prophets etc, so only one human at a specific time and place was sent to teach and as of we know after prophet Muhammad pbuh no prophet ever exists so thats fine with us as many claims have been thier of bieng prophets etc.....

How do we know well it speaks of all what happened in past (our past but after the revlation) and our future and have been true, and what was told always happened and by following the path people lived a humane life although now is the product of going off the teachings and well its hell already but well again hell will be worse than just this

[FordGT90Concept]

How can you say "a guy named Muhammad reinvented the old/new testament into his own cult creating Islam." The quran came from god through Gabrial to Mohammad. What your saying is your own thoughts.
Oops...
Gabriel ~= Old Testament
Muhammad ~= New Testament
Quran ~= Bible
Islam ~= Christianity


Again, really not imaginative. Islam is the latest incarnation of the Judaism chain.

Logic tells me that if any of the religions are correct (and they aren't) the oldest would most likely be the least misinterpreted. Ever play the child's game called "Telephone?" Every time a story is retold, it loses some of its original meaning. The more times it is retold the less original meaning it carries.

[WhiteLotus]

Oops...
Gabriel ~= Old Testament
Muhammad ~= New Testament
Quran ~= Bible
Islam ~= Christianity


Again, really not imaginative. Islam is the latest incarnation of the Judaism chain.

Logic tells me that if any of the religions are correct (and they aren't) the oldest would most likely be the least misinterpreted. Ever play the child's game called "Telephone?" Every time a story is retold, it loses some of its original meaning. The more times it is retold the less original meaning it carries.

Like Chinese Whispers. A story told, retold, retold and retold again, and then 400 years later a guy writing it all down adding his own twist onto things is not the original story what so ever.
I believe the oldest "copy" is the dead sea scrolls.

[Magibeg]

You'd think that Hinduism would be the true religion then as its basically the oldest organized religion at around 1500 BC. Why wouldn't god make a profit out of humans earlier if it mattered. What about people that lived in different parts of the world?

[@RaXxaa@]

Wait quran came into bieng by 610 ce(common era)....., and it came into bieng but it was bieng compiled way before that, as for hinduism, i dont mind the religon, but as my point of view i just cant get over half human and half animal thing or worshipping the cow, or the giants that were in thier way, it just dosent go through me, any other religon, mostly humans only with power by gods and are prophets, almost every one of them but hinduism just dont pass for me.

[Magibeg]

Wait quran came into bieng by 610 ce(common era)....., and it came into bieng but it was bieng compiled way before that, as for hinduism, i dont mind the religon, but as my point of view i just cant get over half human and half animal thing or worshipping the cow, or the giants that were in thier way, it just dosent go through me, any other religon, mostly humans only with power by gods and are prophets, almost every one of them but hinduism just dont pass for me.

I would imagine Hinduism also has even earlier roots than 1500BC (predating the quran by 2100 years). Just because you can't get over a view of a half animal or cows being holy doesn't mean that it wouldn't be correct. Are you just picking the religion that you can best relate to? Both of them are equally improbable but Hinduism did come first by a large margin.

[Magibeg]

Also there is this very important song that i think helps put things into perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

[El Fiendo]

Hey! I'm the only one that's allowed to post up that video on this site. Copycat.

[@RaXxaa@]

Well again i said my thinking .

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Also there is this very important song that i think helps put things into perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

My astrophysics professor sung this for our entire class.

On that note, prove to me that any religion exists.

[Magibeg]

My astrophysics professor sung this for our entire class.

On that note, prove to me that any religion exists.

Cannot be proven. However I'm sure we could stack up an incredible amount of evidence towards many of them being incorrect though.

[@RaXxaa@]

By the way as for time line, By Islam Adam as all know was the first prophet, spreading the word, cant really argue with that can ya? :p

[FordGT90Concept]

Sure I can. For one, why is there no record of this "Adam" outside of religious contexts?

[DrPepper]

Sure I can. For one, why is there no record of this "Adam" outside of religious contexts?

There is in bioshock. That said there is also no prophet muhammed or very few religious characters mentioned outside of them. The most noticeable one that appears in other texts is Jesus and his disciples.

[FordGT90Concept]

Jesus Christ appeared in Roman records. What the Romans wrote about him is akin to what the FBI writes about cultist leaders (e.g. Manson) today. The Romans saw him as a trouble maker which ultimately lead them to extracting capital punishment against him (much like Manson with his multiple life sentences).

[Magibeg]

Jesus Christ appeared in Roman records. What the Romans wrote about him is akin to what the FBI writes about cultist leaders (e.g. Manson) today. The Romans saw him as a trouble maker which ultimately lead them to extracting capital punishment against him (much like Manson with his multiple life sentences).

Personally i find it strange that after Jesus died no one wrote about him for decades despite all the amazing stuff he supposedly did. You'd think someone coming back to life 3 days after their own death would be worth writing about right away instead of waiting a generation or 2.

[WhiteLotus]

unless it was suppressed by the ruler there.

the ol' name stricken from history trick

[FordGT90Concept]

Which is pretty significant evidence that the resurrection was added by someone else after history had forgotten about it in order to add flamboyance to the story and make it memorable. Every tale worth passing from generation to generation stretches the truth in one way (adding falsified details) or another (excluding the not-so-great details).


Take Dracula, for example. It started with a woman obcessed with young, female blood and turned into a story about a man drinking blood like a vampire bat named after a Dracula whom was despised by his subjects. History remembers the falsified tales of Dracula more than, say, King Henry VIII whom was at least equally brutal. If history wrote a tale about King Henry VIII about being a Ogre ripping women's heads off, it would be hard not to remember it.

[WhiteLotus]

Where is the woman vampire?

Thought the first mention of Dracula was in Bram Stoker's book???

[FordGT90Concept]

Countess Báthori is the women that bathed in blood (arrested for 650 murders).

"Dracula" originates with Vlad IV of Wallachia.

The book combined the name/creualty of Vlad and the rituals of Bathori. There's also multiple stories derived from that story which, for example, added the weakness to sun light in order to not infringe on the original copyright. There's a post here that is more thorough with links to references:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=18169


Pretty much any story takes the same shape (starts with a shred of truth and transforms throughout time).

[El Fiendo]

Dracula comes from Vlad the III of Wallachia, aka Vlad Tepes or Vlad the Impaler. It was Vlad the II who served in the Order of the Dragon (Dragon = Drac in Romanian, coincidentally Drac now means Devil in modern Romanian) and he became known as Vlad Dracul ('ul' being the definitive article, ie Vlad the Dragon). In Romanian the ending ulea means 'son of', so Vlad the III became Vlad Dracula (son of the Dragon).

The rest is probably pretty close to right, the Google poster just got his numbering mixed up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_III_the_Impaler

[FordGT90Concept]

Oops. Just like the tales, I only remember the jist of it, not the details. ;)

[Magibeg]

So basically Dracula is just like Jesus. lol

[@RaXxaa@]

Wait jesus was in the last of the prophet hood, not last but after the half point, and well interacted with romans and many other and there was much fuss about him spreading religon and people didnt like it and crusfied him etc where as other spreaded there religon to a place without interference, but as for ADAM AND EVE um if no physical proof everyone knows of them in many other religons, just cause no one thought they were the first humans and so on gods dosent mean they never exsisted.....

[FordGT90Concept]

So basically Dracula is just like Jesus. lol
That's the point I was trying to make, yeah. Dracula was made to be a cruel, immortal figure while Jesus was made to be a kind/just, God-like figure. There is basically a story to go alone with every human trait be it love with the story of Romeo and Juliet or strength with the story of Hercules and Samson. Humans really aren't that imaginative. Even the aliens we create for sci-fi have some root on Earth, be it reptilian influenced humanoids like in Predator and Mass Effect or the bland human-like creature which is the trademark of virtually all "alien encounters." It is impossible to imagine the unimaginable.


...but as for ADAM AND EVE um if no physical proof everyone knows of them in many other religons, just cause no one thought they were the first humans and so on gods dosent mean they never exsisted.....
If man was truly made from dust, why are our innards so similar to that of an ape?

"No physical proof" is a trademark of every "miracle." A master illusionist never gives away his deceitful tactics.

[El Fiendo]

So basically Dracula is just like Jesus. lol

Wait, Jesus had thousands upon thousands of people impaled for public viewing as a show of extreme punishment or just because he felt like impaling them? Maybe I ought to give this religion thing another try.

[zaqwsx]

That's the point I was trying to make, yeah. Dracula was made to be a cruel, immortal figure while Jesus was made to be a kind/just, God-like figure. There is basically a story to go alone with every human trait be it love with the story of Romeo and Juliet or strength with the story of Hercules and Samson. Humans really aren't that imaginative. Even the aliens we create for sci-fi have some root on Earth, be it reptilian influenced humanoids like in Predator and Mass Effect or the bland human-like creature which is the trademark of virtually all "alien encounters." It is impossible to imagine the unimaginable.



If man was truly made from dust, why are our innards so similar to that of an ape?

"No physical proof" is a trademark of every "miracle." A master illusionist never gives away his deceitful tactics.

Well many say we evolved from aps but what if it was the complete opposite and humans became apes. You can’t prove that.

Also Jesus in the Quran was never crucified.

[Magibeg]

Well many say we evolved from aps but what if it was the complete opposite and humans became apes. You can’t prove that.

Also Jesus in the Quran was never crucified.

Well modern genetics and the fossil record would probably disprove that pretty well. The fact Jesus wasn't crucified in the Quran just goes to show how those books are not reliable sources of information.

[FordGT90Concept]

Well many say we evolved from aps but what if it was the complete opposite and humans became apes. You can’t prove that.

Also Jesus in the Quran was never crucified.
Humans are at the top of the food chain. Historically, there is only two ways to lose the top: 1) no more food or 2) the predator becomes the pray. Man has domesticated apes, apes have not domesticated man. Simply put, an ape's cranium isn't big enough to even understand the concept of domestication.


Then the Quran is wrong or knowingly left that detail out. Rome strung Jesus Christ up for crimes against the state. That is well documented. If Christ was declared a martyr, would that not weaken Muhammad's claim to fame?

[zaqwsx]

They can't disprove it. Scientist are so smart and the best they came up with was we came from an ape is bullshit imo. And another thing with the Hadron Collider, I don’t think they will find anything. Also the Bible is not a reliable source because it has been changed the Quran hasn’t been changed.

Edit: The Quran says that he wasnt crucified but a person that looked exactly like him did

Another thing is people belive he came back to life. In the history of mankind nobody has ever came back to life.

Also some muslims belive that an Imam named Mehdi is going to come back which is also bs.

Im a muslim myself and I disagree with the sick shit i see these days.

[FordGT90Concept]

Dissect a chimpanzee and a human cadaver and tell me the similarities are merely coincidence. All mammals are physically similar--they all possess a similar set of organs with similar functions.

Also explain abnormalities like Oliver (the upright walking ape) to me:
http://gingerdead.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/humanzee_oliver.gif


The Bible (original Hebrew) is a much older book than the Quran and therefore, more accurate. The NIV, King James, etc. translations/interpretations probably aren't as accurate as the Quran. Not to say they all aren't filled with fabrications.


A body double? LMFAO! Conspiracy theories... brilliant. Add the Quran to the ranks of the JFK assassination, Hitler's death, and all the other high-profile conspiracy theories out there. It sounds like whoever wrote the Quran conjured up that story for creative interpretation sake--again, most likely to prevent Christ from appearing as a martyr and therefore, overriding Muhammad's claim to fame.


I am an atheist myself and I disagree with all religions/cults.

[@RaXxaa@]

If man was truly made from dust, why are our innards so similar to that of an ape?

"No physical proof" is a trademark of every "miracle." A master illusionist never gives away his deceitful tactics.

Our innards are similar to of a pig quiet well so is of every differnt fish which may be mammals etc i dunno where this is going but just saying.

Actually there are physical proofs of prophets and everything at that time of thier clothing, slippers home... etc anyone can go Dna them but i dont think people will really like that happen as its in saudi i think any who

[@RaXxaa@]

Well modern genetics and the fossil record would probably disprove that pretty well. The fact Jesus wasn't crucified in the Quran just goes to show how those books are not reliable sources of information.

Just to say with the story, jesus in any other religon wasnt crucified too, as god brought him upto heavens and he was replaced by a look alike, and that he was still alive and is and will be with us on day of judgement day is pretty much as it goes, if i didnt missout or misplace the story

[@RaXxaa@]

Humans are at the top of the food chain. Historically, there is only two ways to lose the top: 1) no more food or 2) the predator becomes the pray. Man has domesticated apes, apes have not domesticated man. Simply put, an ape's cranium isn't big enough to even understand the concept of domestication.

If humans went to eating plants, no dead animals, eating carbs from other sources such as sugar etc that would be a solution but fat asses wont let that happen nither would KFC<PIZZAHUT<MCDONALDS<WENDYS<MRBURGER....etc


Then the Quran is wrong or knowingly left that detail out. Rome strung Jesus Christ up for crimes against the state. That is well documented. If Christ was declared a martyr, would that not weaken Muhammad's claim to fame?

I didnt kinda get that, so please specify, iam not the smartest!

[DrPepper]

Half the world would starve if we all became veggies. Animals provide more food per metre squared. Anyway that aside humans wouldn't be top of the food chain if we became herbivores because we would be physically inferior.

[@RaXxaa@]

They can't disprove it. Scientist are so smart and the best they came up with was we came from an ape is bullshit imo. And another thing with the Hadron Collider, I don’t think they will find anything. Also the Bible is not a reliable source because it has been changed the Quran hasn’t been changed.

Edit: The Quran says that he wasnt crucified but a person that looked exactly like him did

Another thing is people belive he came back to life. In the history of mankind nobody has ever came back to life.

Also some muslims belive that an Imam named Mehdi is going to come back which is also bs.

Im a muslim myself and I disagree with the sick shit i see these days.

Imam mehdi isint gonna come back he will be born dude? are you missing out on something, jesus is gonna come back, imam mehdi is gonna be a faimly member of Prophet mohhamad's faimly who is gonna be born as a normal human bieng.

[@RaXxaa@]

Dissect a chimpanzee and a human cadaver and tell me the similarities are merely coincidence. All mammals are physically similar--they all possess a similar set of organs with similar functions.

Also explain abnormalities like Oliver (the upright walking ape) to me:
http://gingerdead.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/humanzee_oliver.gif


The Bible (original Hebrew) is a much older book than the Quran and therefore, more accurate. The NIV, King James, etc. translations/interpretations probably aren't as accurate as the Quran. Not to say they all aren't filled with fabrications.


A body double? LMFAO! Conspiracy theories... brilliant. Add the Quran to the ranks of the JFK assassination, Hitler's death, and all the other high-profile conspiracy theories out there. It sounds like whoever wrote the Quran conjured up that story for creative interpretation sake--again, most likely to prevent Christ from appearing as a martyr and therefore, overriding Muhammad's claim to fame.


I am an atheist myself and I disagree with all religions/cults.

Monkeys/apes which ever walks upright isint nothing really extra ordanairy, so he learned couple of tricks, when you teach something or he sees something he learns, cant be jumping upright at birth, or maybe a defact, we may think as an advancement monkeys/apes think bieng humpback is an advancement in human race to become apes/monkeys .... just they way different spices think

[@RaXxaa@]

Half the world would starve if we all became veggies. Animals provide more food per metre squared. Anyway that aside humans wouldn't be top of the food chain if we became herbivores because we would be physically inferior.

Um just gotta plant more things, gonna be green too but humans cant get enough of mony to get thier lazy ass up and plant a fuckin tree!

Well just eat less meat? why eat meat everyday, i dont think anyone is even gonna eat meat if thier lazy ass had to ever cook it themselves.........

As for physically inferior, you get to live on a proper diet even without meat what ever you need, just cause you love meat and cant help it dosent make you inferior not to eat it, like i said if everyone folloed a human path and kept away from shit like today such problems would never fuckin occur!
BTW not pointing out on you


By the way where the heck are we going from Minrate ban to walkin monkeys?
We should rename the thread or something, seriously!

[DrPepper]

Tell me if you put usain bolt on an all vegetarian diet he wouldn't become physically inferior. Also plants take time to grow and with an expanding population they aren't viable since they don't produce enough food to support as many people as one cow does.

Anyway back to minarete banning who cares about it, buildings aren't a requirement for worship. Most christians here don't go to church but still pray.

[@RaXxaa@]

usain bolt Never herd of him, and iam not saying never touch meat sure eat when nothing else is there, have a better diet of bieng dependent on plants than meat, growing stuff takes time but yet gives much, and when nothing else goes then why not meat but dont go all cheatah on its ass!

As for population Use CONDOMS dont over populate for fun!

[FordGT90Concept]

If humans went to eating plants, no dead animals, eating carbs from other sources such as sugar etc that would be a solution but fat asses wont let that happen nither would KFC<PIZZAHUT<MCDONALDS<WENDYS<MRBURGER....etc
Oh dear...

Herbivores are big animals due to their big digestive tracts (camels, horses, cattle, hogs, etc.). They are big because grasses have little nutritional value so they must consume a lot. Grasses are also very hard to digest. When most of your energy reserves are being depeleted by your stomach, you can't develop a bigger brain.

Smaller herbivores, like rabbits and mice, eat seeds and other high protein food stuffs. They don't need a monsterous digestive tract but, by their weight, their digestive tract still doesn't allow for large brains.

The intelligent animals consume meat. They evovle a larger brain in order to sense, and anticipate the actions of their pray. In the case of scavengers, their brain is smaller but their sense of smell or sight (for birds) are very strong. All carnivores have comparatively small digestive tracts. That allows more energy to power their bigger brain to process the information their super-sensivtive sense detect.

"Fat asses" are caused by the ability to purchase food someone else hunted rather than hunt it yourself. At the same time, humans never were very good hunters but they made weapons which put humans on top of the pecking order.


I didnt kinda get that, so please specify, iam not the smartest!
Rome killed Christ, Christ is the prophet of Christianity. In order for Islam to succeed, Christ could not have "risen" from the dead because such a "miracle" is more compelling than anything Mohummad (the prophet of Islam) could come up with. Rising from the dead is like the ultimate miracle--there's no way to top it so, in order for Islam to succeed, that bit of information from Christianity had to be striken from the Islam textbooks.


Monkeys/apes which ever walks upright isint nothing really extra ordanairy, so he learned couple of tricks, when you teach something or he sees something he learns, cant be jumping upright at birth, or maybe a defact, we may think as an advancement monkeys/apes think bieng humpback is an advancement in human race to become apes/monkeys .... just they way different spices think
Oliver is the only known Chimpanzee to walk on two, all the time. A normal Chimpanzee may walk around on two but not for long (they move much faster on four).

The jist of Oliver's story: he was found in the wild, paraded around in a traveling circus, dubbed the "Humanzee" and the "missing link" in regards to evolution, the traveling circus got shut down and he was sent to some animal shelter, and the animal shelter kept him caged in a normal chimp cage where oliver couldn't stand up. 8 years later, a nature preserve finally tracked Oliver down. They thought that, being caged for so long, he might not be able to walk on his hind legs anymore. When they let him out, that's exactly what he did. Today, if memory serves, he is still alive on a nature preserve down in Texas and still walking on his hind legs.

It is not a trick. He is 100% chimpanzee with an upright predisposition (a genetic abnormality from normal chimps). His condition is proof that Darwinism works in practice.


Shave the fur off a chimp and they look very similar to humans. The bone structure of the face and legs are a bit different but that's just about it.

[DrPepper]

usain bolt Never herd of him, and iam not saying never touch meat sure eat when nothing else is there, have a better diet of bieng dependent on plants than meat, growing stuff takes time but yet gives much, and when nothing else goes then why not meat but dont go all cheatah on its ass!

As for population Use CONDOMS dont over populate for fun!

Doesn't work for third world countries and devout catholic countries.

Also Usain Bolt is the worlds fastest man. You won't have a better diet switching from omnivore you need a both to have a good diet. Vegans are just as unhealthy as people who don't eat any meat only they are more mobile.

[@RaXxaa@]

Looks like a human is not a human. END
There will always be missing links which just come up to scientest even though they arent, why is a human similar to chimpanzee just by looks or acts, if he is not the same thing than he is not, many other animals are simalr one to another meaning everyone is an animal with some missing links and if scientest go after some other spices missing links they sure are gonna find it which just isint the fucking link,

As for islam its no competition as to who does the best acts gets higest honor.....
Christ never died, he was risen to heaven(never died) and is still thier and will come back around the day of judgement, And it happened because no one ever followed his teaching so god called him back, as for prophet Muhammad PBUH he was successful in his time to spread the word to more than 1 nation, which honor was only given to Him to spread the word of peace more than to just a nation. as for acts and feats, Another hazrat could wake up the dead people, sight the blind heal the wounded, why wasnt he given the honor cause its not about the best tricks.
What about moses, he saved heck alot of people from Firaun by deviding the river and taking them across,Hazrat Noah took humans and every animal there to protect them from water flood? so its not about ranks (man made thinking)

[@RaXxaa@]

Doesn't work for third world countries and devout catholic countries.

Also Usain Bolt is the worlds fastest man. You won't have a better diet switching from omnivore you need a both to have a good diet. Vegans are just as unhealthy as people who don't eat any meat only they are more mobile.

Well he just couldnt live a normal life wanted the fame made it too the books....

Point he will be remembered as a record holder until some on else knocks himm of. End

I see alive indians(hindus) who do not eat meat cause of religious causes...

As for countries with no food, if we just gave them food there would be no such sentence, the money country makes and puts on the government, could easily feed the world,

My country has a fucked up stealin government, people need money to buy food, other countries, government provide it, the steal it and nothing reaches the poor...

Point: everyone is corrupt, if not so we wont be run by leaders, nither would be we in need!

[FordGT90Concept]

Looks like a human is not a human. END
We're 97%+ the same.


Ignorance is a staple of religion.

[DrPepper]

It's pointless to argue.

[@RaXxaa@]

Well then no need to say we are all retarted offsprings of 5 generations of monkeys having buttsex with fish squerral. (Mr garrison, southpark)

[FordGT90Concept]

5 generations? More like hundreds of thousands of generations. Biological change never happens overnight.

[WhiteLotus]

They can't disprove it. Scientist are so smart and the best they came up with was we came from an ape is bullshit imo. And another thing with the Hadron Collider, I don’t think they will find anything. Also the Bible is not a reliable source because it has been changed the Quran hasn’t been changed.


You CAN, however, disprove large portions of every religious book out there. Please, a giant flood to wash away all the sin? Yea whatever.
Scientists now think that Man did not come from Apes, both Man and Apes came from the same ancestor. Due to the environmental differences Apes found it easier to live in the trees, so man use of the four limbs, Man found it easier to live if they walked up right.

Every mammal on earth originated from one ancestor. Only have to look at the early stages of embryonic development to see this.


Dissect a chimpanzee and a human cadaver and tell me the similarities are merely coincidence. All mammals are physically similar--they all possess a similar set of organs with similar functions.

Also explain abnormalities like Oliver


The Bible (original Hebrew) is a much older book than the Quran and therefore, more accurate. The NIV, King James, etc. translations/interpretations probably aren't as accurate as the Quran. Not to say they all aren't filled with fabrications.


Ah yes Oliver. He was proven to be more ape than Human due to the number of Chromosomes he had (48 in Apes, 46 in Man). What ever he was is still a mystery, a very bad case of deformity and a coincidence that he looked human, who knows. But this is just another aspect that can be used to hypothesis that both Man and Apes came from the same ancestor.
Also, it does not matter how old the Bible is, many of the books have been taken out, added, rewritten. By now they have lost all original meaning. Turning water into wine, maybe with a shit load of grapes yes, but magically no. Once a story used to educate is now a story used to prove a "miracle"


Half the world would starve if we all became veggies. Animals provide more food per metre squared. Anyway that aside humans wouldn't be top of the food chain if we became herbivores because we would be physically inferior.

That is very true. Homo neanderthalensis predominately ate meat, where as Homo paranthropus ate vegetables and nuts. Both are extinct. We may only be alive because, well, we ate everything.

We're 97%+ the same.

Ignorance is a staple of religion.


And everything is the same as bacteria.

[@RaXxaa@]

Turning water into wine, maybe with a shit load of grapes yes, but magically no.

Dude that fuckin cracked me up so bad. AHAHHA couldnt stop laughing at that :p :D :D

[@RaXxaa@]

Facts prove that earth is not old as told by measuring up with incorrect methods and have proven that evolution never happened. I dont get it why people still follow that but it never happened. So ape and man co incident no relation except they share the earth, well human took over but yes thats it no missing links, some scientest look so much that they loose thier minds and everything appears as missing links and they just prove that, like same with ufo's. never happened. area 51, real contains aliens not real.

I dont know myself where iam going with it but what the heck

[DrPepper]

What facts prove the earth isn't as old as the scientists say ?

[WhiteLotus]

Facts prove that earth is not old as told by measuring up with incorrect methods and have proven that evolution never happened. I dont get it why people still follow that but it never happened. So ape and man co incident no relation except they share the earth, well human took over but yes thats it no missing links, some scientest look so much that they loose thier minds and everything appears as missing links and they just prove that, like same with ufo's. never happened. area 51, real contains aliens not real.

I dont know myself where iam going with it but what the heck

And some people refuse to look at all because of their faith

[FordGT90Concept]

Ah yes Oliver. He was proven to be more ape than Human due to the number of Chromosomes he had (48 in Apes, 46 in Man). What ever he was is still a mystery, a very bad case of deformity and a coincidence that he looked human, who knows. But this is just another aspect that can be used to hypothesis that both Man and Apes came from the same ancestor.
I don't think Oliver's condition could be consider a deformity. To him, walking up right is just as normal as it is to us. If I had to guess, I'd say his pelvis is more human-like than ape-like. It could very well be the same gene resurfacing that started us (humans) down the path that resulted with us today.


And everything is the same as bacteria.
On the cellular level, yeah, bacteria and organisms share a lot in common. Similarly, everything made from matter is unique but still shares a common basis (atoms). The smaller the scale, the more simplistic nature appears.



And some people refuse to look at all because of their faith
Again, ignorance is a staple of religion. In order to be a devout follower of a single religion, you must reject the teachings of all other religions and beliefs. The amount of faith one has is easily measured by the ignorance--they are practically synonymous.


We know how old the Earth is due to the decay in uranium. The figures keep changing though because, as it turns out, most uranium existing today was originally created in the big bang. The more time that passes, the slower uranium appears to decay causing the number given to the age of the universe to grow larger.

[@RaXxaa@]

What facts prove the earth isn't as old as the scientists say ?

The facts that the methods used to date the earth are way off wrong way!

[DrPepper]

The facts that the methods used to date the earth are way off wrong way!

Oh and I suppose there is a better method ?

[@RaXxaa@]

I don't think Oliver's condition could be consider a deformity. To him, walking up right is just as normal as it is to us. If I had to guess, I'd say his pelvis is more human-like than ape-like. It could very well be the same gene resurfacing that started us (humans) down the path that resulted with us today.

We know how old the Earth is due to the decay in uranium. The figures keep changing though because, as it turns out, most uranium existing today was originally created in the big bang. The more time that passes, the slower uranium appears to decay causing the number given to the age of the universe to grow larger.

Wait to use walking hunchbacked is deformity/ physically challanged/ handicap kid, to apes walking up right is the same, i mean if u were walkin like them they would take you in as a faimly if your face was with hair, but as soon as you get up right you gonna be dropped faster than the world trade center!
To you oliver(idiotic name) was turning to a human to them he was turning to a freak!

As our talking goes some scientest came up with bigbang theory maybe it never happened? they have proof for it, we have proof for religons, both have proofs and theories not facts theories are tested and provn either right or wrong so never to ever say how old it is or bigbang ever even occured just cause they think so!

BTW human had a proper pelivs just that monkeys didnt and as i dun belive in evolution i wouldnt say that we were slightly broken before than we had an idea to straighten our bones out.

[@RaXxaa@]

Oh and I suppose there is a better method ?

Yup but mostly i wouldnt go for that either unless it does prove of exact date of occurence, of any thing. if it proves some where close then they underestimated it bullshit!

[FordGT90Concept]

To you oliver(idiotic name) was turning to a human to them he was turning to a freak!
a) he was born that way
b) he is not "turning" into anything
c) he has two chimpanzee girlfriends



As our talking goes some scientest came up with bigbang theory maybe it never happened?
There's over a dozen supporting theories that back up the claims ranging from expansion of the universe to uniform background radiation.

On the other hand, there is no proof Moses parted the sea, Noah built a ship, or someone turned water into wine.

[DrPepper]

As our talking goes some scientest came up with bigbang theory maybe it never happened? they have proof for it, we have proof for religons, both have proofs and theories not facts theories are tested and provn either right or wrong so never to ever say how old it is or bigbang ever even occured just cause they think so!

as i dun belive in evolution i wouldnt say that we were slightly broken before than we had an idea to straighten our bones out.

There's quite definative proof for the big bang. Mostly the massive amounts of radiation still present from it. If you want proof of that television arials can pick it up and it is static to them. Also you can measure how old it is. We know the age of the universe and it is 99.999999% probable that is correct.

Yup but mostly i wouldnt go for that either unless it does prove of exact date of occurence, of any thing. if it proves some where close then they underestimated it bullshit!

The method Ford pointed out is 99.99999% correct. I'd go with that.

a) he was born that way
b) he is not "turning" into anything
c) he has two chimpanzee girlfriends

Pimp chimp :cool:

[@RaXxaa@]

a) he was born that way
b) he is not "turning" into anything
c) he has two chimpanzee girlfriends



There's over a dozen supporting theories that back up the claims ranging from expansion of the universe to uniform background radiation.

On the other hand, there is no proof Moses parted the sea, Noah built a ship, or someone turned water into wine.

That jelouses me much!!! XD AHAHAHAHHA
Um did that claims get proven and is a scientific law that this is what happened and wont change,

As for the prophets people made claims they saw them too have hard physical evidence of it and i dunno why no one wants to challange that evidence but i dun care either.

So yeah moses parted the see people saw it made claims that they did cant prove it then just leave it at that not proven.

[FordGT90Concept]

Um did that claims get proven and is a scientific law that this is what happened and wont change,
There are no laws in science. Every theory is created to be disproved. Nothing is absolute.


As for the prophets people made claims they saw them too have hard physical evidence of it and i dunno why no one wants to challange that evidence but i dun care either.
"They" are delusional.


So yeah moses parted the see people saw it made claims that they did cant prove it then just leave it at that not proven.
Because it never happened. It is just another example of creative language applied to an otherwise mundane situation.

[Magibeg]

Looks almost like we'll be needing a religion thread one day :P