(uk news) it's only a matter of time before it happens again [Archive]

dr emulator (madmax)

12-01-2009, 01:22 AM

Wile E

12-01-2009, 03:29 AM

Breeds should never be banned, EVER. That is more nanny-state bullshit. Bad upbringing makes for bad dogs, not being a certain breed. I feel for the family of the boy and all, but that type of needless and stupid legislation really boils my blood.

WhiteLotus

12-01-2009, 10:46 AM

But these dogs have often been bread from dogs that are used for fighting. They are meant to kill and rip things apart. It's like having a miniature hyena in your house. Where as the parents are stupid to have it is one thing but to have anyway in any house is another.

Cuzza

12-01-2009, 10:56 AM

FordGT90Concept

12-01-2009, 11:31 AM

Most attacks on humans by dogs are by Pitbulls just as most shark attacks on humans are by Great Whites. Some breeds of animals are naturally more aggressive than others not to say that certain situations can't make an otherwise mild breed more aggressive.

This site describes the legal situation:
http://www.animallaw.info/articles/aruslweiss2001.htm

In this case, the laws are already in place. The question is, was this a pitbull (which are banned) or not. Having an illegal animal in your possession could bring criminal charges.

Farm dogs, police dogs, sniffer dogs, guide dogs.
2 of those 4 (police and guide dogs) often use the German Shepherd breed which ranks high on the aggression list. Most farms, these days, don't have dogs for herding animals.

Frick

12-01-2009, 12:15 PM

You do know that pitbulls are NOT more agressive nowadays than any other dog, right? Pitbulls are nice dogs, but of course it can backfire if you're a jackass (like with all dogs).

Black Panther

12-01-2009, 12:24 PM

I agree with Wile E.

It's not the dog's "breed" which is dangerous, but the way it's brought up and reared.

Thing is that you can't mess with dogs - an animal is an animal after all. It's up to the owner to ensure others' safety, and not the dog's fault. It's also up to adults in general to teach their kids not to mess with animals, dogs, cats, whatever... and behave responsibly themselves.

I had a very aggressive chihuahua once, barely weighed 3lbs but if someone messed with him he could bite off fingers or disfigure a child's face...
No country plans on banning chihuahuas though....

dr emulator (madmax)

12-01-2009, 02:12 PM

i agree with Wile E to a point that banning them is a bad idea but they certainly aren't a family dog that you could totaly trust i'e i wouldn't leave a screaming todler in a room with one.
i also agree with FordGT90Concept Some breeds of animals are naturally more aggressive than others, if my neighbour has got rid of their dog it means i won't have to jump over the fence with an axe when it savages there little boy ,oh and Wile E some people in this country (uk)beleive that that type dog makes them look and feel tough (ye they are total di**heads) but that's brits for ya ;)

DaMulta

12-01-2009, 03:33 PM

Some dogs are just fucking crazy. Just like some people are just fucking crazy.

jmcslob

12-01-2009, 04:28 PM

Some dogs are just fucking crazy. Just like some people are just fucking crazy.I agree 100% for every psycho Pit Bull you have an equal number of psycho Collies etc....
But Pit Bulls do more Damage i think what laws like this are made to do is to prevent Serious injuries.... Obviously it only becomes a problem when something like this happens....

MT Alex

12-01-2009, 06:12 PM

Breeds have an enormous weight on how dogs behave. To say that dogs only react to their upbringing goes against the whole notion of why humans began breeding dogs for different jobs.

Look at the African boerboel. Two boerboels were locked in a pen with a lion, if the loin killed them, obviously, they weren't bred. If one of the boerboels was killed by the lion, the other was killed because it let the other dog die. The only boerboels that were bred were ones that successfully killed lions in pairs. Now you have a breed that is very efficient at killing loins in pairs, albeit a very scary breed, of 160+ pound dogs that are mean as hell.

Pits, a bastardization of the mastiff line, were bred in the same fashion, with only the dogs who were successful at fighting getting to procreate. Now you have a breed with an extremely high propensity for aggression. Plain and simple. That is their purpose. Once they turn it on, you are fucked.

I have known a few that were "fine" with humans, but they still can't be around other dogs without fighting. And good luck disciplining them. They weren't bred for accomplishing smart tasks, and they don't seem to have ANY pain receptors. You can hit them with a shovel when they are fighting with another dog (seen it) and they don't even feel it.

I can't say that I would want a government ban, but I can't see why these dogs have become so popular lately. When I had to live in the crap hole Colorado for a brief time, you would see the Mexicans walking them, with tennis balls shoved in their mouths. They must enjoy more than cock fights. You never saw one around where I lived until recently. Now young wantabees with tattoos and stupid jacked up trucks think it's cool to have one. If your pants bag, your hat is on sideways, you have a skull tattooed anywhere, you probably think they are a cool dog.

I know MM and PP have one, and that doesn't mean that they don't love their dog, and most likely it will turn out to be a great dog. People like different things. I just never relax around them, and wouldn't let my kid crawl all over one and pull its ears like he does with my dog.

Frick

12-01-2009, 06:28 PM

Preying on smaller animals is a characteristic of the rase, but aggressiveness towards humans is not. It's a lot about media imo. When a pitbull attack something its all OMG KILL HIM!! but whenever it's not a pitbull they don't even say what breed it is.

FordGT90Concept

12-01-2009, 08:19 PM

I'm pretty sure most regions have a registry of dog attacks either held by the authorities are the local government. It just so happens that Pit Bulls make their way to the top, no matter where you are. Aggression is their nature.

Wile E

12-01-2009, 11:15 PM

Wile E that is total crap. Why is it that the "bad-upbringers" choose certain breeds to bring up bad? because they are violent savage creatures. All dogs of those breeds should be shot. And the owners. In fact I just fucken hate dogs in general. There's only 4 types of dogs should be allowed. Farm dogs, police dogs, sniffer dogs, guide dogs. Shoot the rest I say.

No, they choose them because they have the physical attributes needed to win fights. I can train a goddamn Chihuahua to be a "fighting" dog. I happen to have owned 3 pitbulls. Not a goddamn one of them were aggressive AT ALL.

Learn something about a subject before you post on it.

And ford, most attacks are not Pitbulls. I don't know where you get that idea. It's just that it's only when it's a Pit attack, is it newsworthy to mention the breed for some reason. When a Cocker Spaniel attacks someone, you never hear about it.

Cuzza

12-02-2009, 12:19 AM

jmcslob

12-02-2009, 12:24 AM

No, they choose them because they have the physical attributes needed to win fights. I can train a goddamn Chihuahua to be a "fighting" dog. I happen to have owned 3 pitbulls. Not a goddamn one of them were aggressive AT ALL.

Learn something about a subject before you post on it.

And ford, most attacks are not Pitbulls. I don't know where you get that idea. It's just that it's only when it's a Pit attack, is it newsworthy to mention the breed for some reason. When a Cocker Spaniel attacks someone, you never hear about it.

Well That's because of the Damage levels...
Pit Bulls when they attack do more damage that's all..I don't think they are more likely to attack than an other Dog, but when they do it's bad, and that's where the headlines come in.

Black Labs and golden retrievers make the vicious Dog list as well...
But they never make headlines because people assume the person bitten deserved it..

Wile E

12-02-2009, 03:35 AM

no

Yeah, that supported your viewpoint greatly. Any other stirring arguments to add to your cause?

Sorry, breeds are not bad. Poorly raised dogs of any breed are bad. A properly raised dog of any breed is good.

I grew up in a Humane Society household. My stepmother worked there for years, I learned a lot about animals in that time. Being around them for 20 years, even she will tell you it's not breed, it's upbringing.

JC316

12-02-2009, 04:12 AM

Agreed with Wile E, the breed isn't dangerous, it's how they are raised. Rottweilers are on the dangerous list, I have had two, known 5, and talked to countless people and they all say the same thing, they are the sweetest dogs in the world. I have no fear of letting small children near my Rottie nor my last Rottie. Hell, my 7 year old nephew was riding Ryan like a horse and he never so much as growled.

I hear the same from pit bull owners too, most are the sweetest dogs. Now, my grandparents have a poodle, that is the meanest little fuckwit that I have ever seen. He has done more damage to me than my old chow and two rotties combined. Why? Cause how he was raised. My neighbors have a Boxer, that sumbitch will lunge at my fence so hard that he cuts his chin trying to get at me. My friend works at a vet clinic, a terrier horribly mauled his thumb, pierced his thumbnail in a couple of places and took alot of skin off for no reason.

T3hPwn3r3r

12-02-2009, 04:38 AM

There are 4 kinds of dogs.
German Shepherds
Huskies
Siberian Huskies
Mutts

Any other dog is totally uncool. All bow to my mutt!
http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs245.snc1/9234_259686780245_652345245_8860212_3869016_n.jpg

FordGT90Concept

12-02-2009, 08:41 AM

And ford, most attacks are not Pitbulls. I don't know where you get that idea. It's just that it's only when it's a Pit attack, is it newsworthy to mention the breed for some reason. When a Cocker Spaniel attacks someone, you never hear about it.
Any dog attack requiring hospitalization (just breaking the skin is enough for that due to tetanus and rabies considerations) that isn't your dog requires the doctor to report the dog attack to the authorities. So, put it together: the breed of dog that most often attacks another person not of the family is the Pit Bull. The Pit Bull breed, therefore, posses the greatest threat to a community due to unprovoked attacks on strangers.

Being around them for 20 years, even she will tell you it's not breed, it's upbringing.
The statistics say otherwise.

Cuzza

12-02-2009, 10:38 AM

Yeah, that supported your viewpoint greatly. Any other stirring arguments to add to your cause?

Sorry, breeds are not bad. Poorly raised dogs of any breed are bad. A properly raised dog of any breed is good.

I grew up in a Humane Society household. My stepmother worked there for years, I learned a lot about animals in that time. Being around them for 20 years, even she will tell you it's not breed, it's upbringing.

Apologies for my brevity; At the time I hadn't composed my thoughts, mainly because I found your dismissal of my viewpoint insulting.

What I mean to say is, as I'm sure you have guessed, my viewpoint is largely opinion based, and if I was to learn something about the subject,as you put it, it wouldn't change my opinion.

I agree with your point that poor raising is the main culprit in most cases. However, to say that a well raised dog of any breed is good I do not accept. To me many breeds of dog, especially the "dangerous" breeds, are just a waste of space. But that's just me and we can't base things on my opinion.

But there will always be scumbags out there who want to raise their animals to be violent, and they do choose certain breeds for this because when raised in that way they do become more dangerous than other breeds raised in that same way. So I don't see why we shouldn't ban those breeds. Surely the rest of us can go without pitbulls to help stop those bastards raising more of them as killers.

Most farms, these days, don't have dogs for herding animals.

They do where I come from pal!

FordGT90Concept

12-02-2009, 01:59 PM

We use 4-wheelers and farther west, they sometimes use helicopters. The dogs get tired.

Wile E

12-02-2009, 06:33 PM

Any dog attack requiring hospitalization (just breaking the skin is enough for that due to tetanus and rabies considerations) that isn't your dog requires the doctor to report the dog attack to the authorities. So, put it together: the breed of dog that most often attacks another person not of the family is the Pit Bull. The Pit Bull breed, therefore, posses the greatest threat to a community due to unprovoked attacks on strangers.

The statistics say otherwise.

What statistics? Who gathered these statistics? And then think, how many bite attacks go unreported, especially when a "dangerous breed" is not involved? A lot of those that don't cause serious harm or death go unreported because it's not labeled a dangerous breed and the person "must have had it coming". Yet, as soon as a dog on the dangerous breeds list bites someone, it gets reported, whether that person deserved it or not.

What I will tell you is, breeds like the pit are more capable of doing severe physical damage do to their physical structure, but that in no way makes them more prone to attack.

No indisputable facts support your claims, just as none support mine, but to make up for that, I have decades of personal experience with all breeds. Most people with my years of dog experience will tell you the same thing. I'll take my experience any day, over statistics with no guaranties of accuracy.

Apologies for my brevity; At the time I hadn't composed my thoughts, mainly because I found your dismissal of my viewpoint insulting.

What I mean to say is, as I'm sure you have guessed, my viewpoint is largely opinion based, and if I was to learn something about the subject,as you put it, it wouldn't change my opinion.

I agree with your point that poor raising is the main culprit in most cases. However, to say that a well raised dog of any breed is good I do not accept. To me many breeds of dog, especially the "dangerous" breeds, are just a waste of space. But that's just me and we can't base things on my opinion.

But there will always be scumbags out there who want to raise their animals to be violent, and they do choose certain breeds for this because when raised in that way they do become more dangerous than other breeds raised in that same way. So I don't see why we shouldn't ban those breeds. Surely the rest of us can go without pitbulls to help stop those bastards raising more of them as killers.

They do where I come from pal!That's nanny state mentality. The scumbags should be punished, not everyone else.

But I digress with you on other points. You just don't like dogs, and it's not like I can change your mind on that aspect of it. I have no other choice to respect that aspect.

Steevo

12-02-2009, 07:10 PM

If I ever got another it would be a siberian husky again, or a german shepard. And I train my dogs, not one of them ever went after someone without provocation, or unless I told them too.

I had two husky/collie mixes and one was huge and as dumb as a rock, but fun and not dangerous in the least, and the male was slightly dangerous if you were aggressive to him, but you could beat him senseless if he knew you and he would do nothing.

THe only dog who ever bit me was a chihuha (sp). And I killed a pitbull once as it was coming after me, my asshole cousin trained it to attack everything, and so I simply kicked it in the throat hard enough to flip it over. It suffocated, I felt bad for the dog, and not for my cousin. But I wasn't about to be chewed on for his stupidity.

JC316

12-02-2009, 07:10 PM

Apologies for my brevity; At the time I hadn't composed my thoughts, mainly because I found your dismissal of my viewpoint insulting.

What I mean to say is, as I'm sure you have guessed, my viewpoint is largely opinion based, and if I was to learn something about the subject,as you put it, it wouldn't change my opinion.

I agree with your point that poor raising is the main culprit in most cases. However, to say that a well raised dog of any breed is good I do not accept. To me many breeds of dog, especially the "dangerous" breeds, are just a waste of space. But that's just me and we can't base things on my opinion.

But there will always be scumbags out there who want to raise their animals to be violent, and they do choose certain breeds for this because when raised in that way they do become more dangerous than other breeds raised in that same way. So I don't see why we shouldn't ban those breeds. Surely the rest of us can go without pitbulls to help stop those bastards raising more of them as killers.

Ever hear of guard dog? There was a rash of thefts in my area, kinda odd since it's in the country and in a nice area. Well, one night my dad left his company van closer toward the road, outside of the range of our porch light and our Rottweiler was going apeshit. My sister went outside and let him out and he tore ass down the driveway. Our electric gate opened, then closed and there were footprints out there. That gate is push button, so it's impossible for it to just open and close. Funny thing, the thefts stopped after that...

And no, I flat WONT give up a dangerous breed just because someone MIGHT turn him into a killer. I love my dog like a family member, maybe you have never had a connection with an animal, but I have. I will never own another breed of dog, it's a Rottie or nothing for me.

Now, your mentality can go a LONG way. Anything can be turned into a killer. Ban games cause they MIGHT breed killers, ban guns because a killer MIGHT get it, ban the breeding of Black and Hispanic people because statistics show that they are the more dangerous "breed". No more Arabs because they turn into terrorists. Where does it stop?

Cuzza

12-03-2009, 04:42 AM

I feel it's unfortunate that guard dogs are necessary. I'd rather live in a society where we don't need them.

Wile E, yes the scumbags should be punished. JC, you ask where we draw the line? I don't know. But somewhere we all have to make sacrifices to help prevent a minority abusing society's freedoms. It's just the way of things. That's my mentality, and it doesn't go anywhere near the racism that you are suggesting.

Clearly you are responsible dog owners and I respect your love for your animals. I have a semi-rural upbringing and have had many pets and spent a lot of time around farm animals so believe me I do understand the connection you have. I'm not sure where my negativity towards dogs has come from; maybe it is a recent thing. In the city neighbourhood I now live many people have dogs, and most of them are annoying barking mongrels that piss me off. I feel sorry for most of them actually because they stay tied up in tiny backyards. Dogs need space to run. As for small house dogs, that's something I really don't understand.

JC316

12-03-2009, 05:40 AM

I feel it's unfortunate that guard dogs are necessary. I'd rather live in a society where we don't need them.

Wile E, yes the scumbags should be punished. JC, you ask where we draw the line? I don't know.But somewhere we all have to make sacrifices to help prevent a minority abusing society's freedoms. It's just the way of things. That's my mentality, and it doesn't go anywhere near the racism that you are suggesting.

But by making the sacrifice we are allowing the minority to abuse our freedoms. The freedom to own any breed of domestic dog that we choose. Again, by banning the breed, it further tightens the noose that the worlds governments have on us.

You are suggesting the same racism, but toward an animal rather than a person. I feel as revolted by the banning of dogs and you do toward the banning of humans. It's the same logic, but on the next higher scale.

If you allow the governments to ban the breed of dogs, then you give them the right to go further and further till there is no freedom left.

Cuzza

12-03-2009, 07:15 AM

Come one, giving them the right? Governments having been banning things since governments have existed. Racism towards animals? Seriously? That is not even remotely the same logic. It is a completely different argument.

So, lets be silly and extend that argument elsewhere. In some countries you are not allowed to own guns. Why are they banned? Because we make the sacrifice to ban them, to help prevent a minority abusing the freedom of having them.

The minority does abuse our freedoms. But a completely free society doesn't exist, it is anarchy and chaos. I might like to own a gun, but I accept that we're all better off without them. You say government is tightening the noose? Man, that is democracy. If you don't like it, fight it. I respect you for standing up for your pov. Oppose it. If you lose, tough shit. The majority won. Go live in a third world country where you might get shot just for owning a dog.

JC316

12-03-2009, 09:07 AM

Come one, giving them the right? Governments having been banning things since governments have existed. Racism towards animals? Seriously? That is not even remotely the same logic. It is a completely different argument.

Sadly, you are correct, but it's still nice to not go into acceptance mode. Animals have rights, just look at the SPCA and the type of punishment you can get for neglecting them. Cops view their K9's as actual officers. It's not uncommon to see dogs that get treated as human, not legally of course, but still.

You say that a breed of animal should be banned because that breed has statistically higher violent tendencies. You suggest that the aggression is passed down genetically and is not a product of a bad environment. In a horrible future, the same could be said of humans. If the statistics showed that violent tendencies were more dominant in middle easterners, or blacks, or latin americans, or whites, then they could be banned. Not right now of course, but one sick day it might be possible. Had World War 2 ended differently, we might be there now.

So, lets be silly and extend that argument elsewhere. In some countries you are not allowed to own guns. Why are they banned? Because we make the sacrifice to ban them, to help prevent a minority abusing the freedom of having them.

And is gun violence eliminated completely in those countries? I highly suspect that the answer is no because there is always a way to get the guns. So, you give up the guns, the lowlifes import them on a black market, then they have the guns and you have government sponsored dial a prayer in the police. Same with dogs, if you ban the Pitt Bulls, then the scum will train Black Labs to be killers.

Anyway, we may have to agree to disagree.

prej·u·dice
NOUN:

1.
1. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
2. A preconceived preference or idea.
2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.
3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
4. Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.

I'm not sure where my negativity towards dogs has come from; maybe it is a recent thing. In the city neighbourhood I now live many people have dogs, and most of them are annoying barking mongrels that piss me off. As for small house dogs, that's something I really don't understand.

Sorry, I had to:D(r)

Cuzza

12-03-2009, 10:45 AM

You say that a breed of animal should be banned because that breed has statistically higher violent tendencies. You suggest that the aggression is passed down genetically and is not a product of a bad environment.

Actually, I didn't say any of that. However,

- I do support the first point,
- Yes, agression is passed down genetically, to some extent. I know that DOES NOT mean all rottweilers are natural born killers
- I believe that that the environment is the MAIN factor

So we get to the animal rights part, because we can't control human behaviour without infringing human rights, animal rights have to go first. You can't ban the people (the real problem!) so ban the animal.

And is gun violence eliminated completely in those countries? I highly suspect that the answer is no because there is always a way to get the guns.

Of course it is not eliminated. I would never suggest that banning dogs would eliminate dog attacks. No ban/law eliminates the crime, but it can help reduce it.

3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.

If my neighbour's dogs would STFU, maybe my predjudice would decline. On the other hand, I think suspicion of rottweilers and pitbulls is quite rational. If one ran at me I'd probably get the fuck outta there!

Anyway, we may have to agree to disagree.

OK. I have a better understanding and respect of where your side of the argument is coming from.

FordGT90Concept

12-03-2009, 11:53 AM

And then think, how many bite attacks go unreported, especially when a "dangerous breed" is not involved?
Apparently, a lot. If a German Shepherd bites someone, everyone hears about it and the Humane Society won't take it. If it is a medium or small dog, the humane society will take it regardless of attacking. There is certainly some degree of bias there--the question is, is it justified? A large dog can do a lot more damage than a small dog but all large breeds aren't put down the moment they attack someone (I think Alaskan Huskies are an exmaple).

Yeah, I leave it up to bias (ehm, what dogs invoke the most fear in passers by).

dr emulator (madmax)

12-03-2009, 03:58 PM

Man arrested over dog attack death (http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=151180878)

The uncle of John Paul Massey has been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter after his illegal pitbull dog savaged the four-year-old to death.

Christian Foulkes, 21, was detained by detectives from Merseyside Police following the death of the little boy on Monday.

The arrest came after tests showed that the dog, called Uno, was a pitbull, banned under the Dangerous Dogs Act.

A spokeswoman for the force said: "A 21-year-old man from the Wavertree area of Liverpool has this morning (Thursday) been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter by detectives investigating the death of four-year-old John Paul Massey."

The illegally held animal, which is powerfully built and sometimes bred for dog-fighting or used as a "status symbol", attacked John Paul while he was staying at the home of his grandmother, Helen Foulkes, in Ash Grove, Wavertree, on Monday.

The 63-year-old was herself injured as she battled to pull the dog off her grandson, whom she was babysitting along with his brother, Craig, 13, while their parents, named locally as Angela McGlynn and John Massey, went out for the night. Mrs Foulkes will make a full recovery.

Police marksmen subsequently shot the dog as paramedics tried to treat the boy, but he was pronounced dead at the scene.

Christian Foulkes is understood to have recently joined the Army and was away in training, leaving the dog at home. He was given compassionate leave to return to Liverpool on Monday, before his arrest.

Merseyside Police admitted they were told months ago that a banned pitbull-type dog had been seen at the house. Senior officers said they were deeply concerned and disappointed that the tip-off was not followed up properly.

A complaint was made by a city housing officer last February about dog breeding at the home but a police call centre operator told the caller it was "not a police matter" and the complaint was never followed up.

DrPepper

12-03-2009, 04:18 PM

The breed of dog isn't the main cause of this it's the bad upbringing of powerful dogs that cause these attacks. It isn't so noticeable on small dogs for example terriers which always attack my dog which is a boxer because of bad upbringing but there not dangerous enough to kill humans.

WhiteLotus

12-03-2009, 04:20 PM

these dogs have been breed to rip things apart. You can give it all the great upbringing in the world, - not going to stop it ripping something to shreds if it wants to.

DrPepper

12-03-2009, 04:21 PM

these dogs have been breed to rip things apart. You can give it all the great upbringing in the world, - not going to stop it ripping something to shreds if it wants to.

Good discipline will keep any dog in line if you've done that since it was born.

WhiteLotus

12-03-2009, 04:24 PM

DrPepper

12-03-2009, 04:29 PM

erm no. NOT AT ALL.

Take a lion cub. You can be nice to that cub all you're life. If it wants to kill you, it's going to kill you.

Why do you people not get it? These dogs are bred to be aggressive. IT'S IN THE FUCKING GENETICS! sure you can put it in the best environment ever, but one day if it gets pissed off, it's going to get aggressive.

A dog only reacts to the situation around it. If it is threatned it get's aggressive. Being aggressive isn't built into the gene's that's like saying characteristics are genetic like homosexuality etc are also built in. The owner should be in 100% control of the dog whenever other people are around.

WhiteLotus

12-03-2009, 04:35 PM

DrPepper

12-03-2009, 04:39 PM

Never heard of fight or flight reaction? Get pissed off you got two choices, fight or run.

These dogs are breed from the dogs that fight, and subsequently win. If you continue to do this the dog is going to get more and more aggressive.
Take that dog and give it all the love and care in the world, doesn't mean it is no longer an aggressive dog. Pitbulls are breed from previously aggressive dogs.

The other argument is that if you can't make sure the environment that the dog lives in suitable then you shouldn't have it (i.e. kids around are inevitably going to piss the dog off). But these dogs, pitbull, should not be kept by the public if they cannot keep them. Did you not see the news a few weeks back where a pitbull mauled a GUIDE dog. an old ladies guide dog ffs.

Again thats not the dog's breed thats the cause its the breeder thats made these dogs aggressive. Also dogs fight all the time and yes it's terrible that a guide dog got mauled but if that was a stray no one would give a crap. This stuff is all blown out of proportion. However I think that people should need a license to own any dog. They should be approved to own a dog because most people abuse their dogs and let them breed out of control.

WhiteLotus

12-03-2009, 04:42 PM

However I think that people should need a license to own any dog. They should be approved to own a dog because most people abuse their dogs and let them breed out of control.

Now that is something i completely agree with.

DrPepper

12-03-2009, 04:46 PM

Now that is something i completely agree with.

In the wrong hands dogs can be as dangerous as a gun. Even when used as a projectile.

momentomoir

12-03-2009, 05:53 PM

"Banned breed probe after dog kills"

Police are set to learn whether a dog that killed a four-year-old boy was a breed banned under the Dangerous Dogs Act.
original source here (http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=151134597)

http://estb.msn.com/i/B5/BEC8684F8665D137B57ACC3FEFF2.jpg

John-Paul Massey (pictured above) was attacked by the animal while he was at his grandmother's house in Liverpool in the early hours of Monday.

The youngster, described by his headteacher as a "friendly, cheerful little boy" suffered massive injuries and died at the scene. Police shot the dog.

His grandmother, Helen Foulkes, 63, was also savaged as she tried to protect the youngster who she was baby-sitting at her home in Ash Grove, Wavertree. She has since been released from hospital.

Merseyside Police said if the dog, described by neighbours as a "pitbull" type, is found to be a banned breed then the owner may face prosecution.

An internal police investigation has also been mounted after it emerged concerns about dogs at the house were reported to the force last February.

The matter went no further because a call centre operator wrongly told the complainant, a local housing officer, it was not a police matter.

379on the above story here (http://generalnonsense.net/showpost.php?p=18051&postcount=32)

this story reminds me of my neighbours kid kicking a similar type of dog in the head (i think they got rid of it)

all text links and pictures remain the property of there owners

ok this pisses me off i have a pit bull she is the sweetest dog
ya she shits on the floor and pisses me the fuck off but she would never hurt anyone unless she is threaten like any other dog would

her mom and dad and brothers and sisters are just as sweet

no dog is anymore dangerous then any other dog
if i read correctly the dog was bred to fight then its gonna attack

i hate when people say pitbulls are dangerous
treat a dog to be kind it will be kind treat a dog to be aggressive it will be aggressive
just like a kid you treat a kid to be kind the kid will be kind treat the kid to be mean and the kid will be mean

@ whitelotus
any DOG NOT LION can be trained at birth to be good not lion lion different species and WILD.
dogs and humans are similar when it comes to raising its taken alot for me to realize that but its true
also my PITBULL was bred from to sweet dogs that would only lick you to death

WhiteLotus

12-03-2009, 06:29 PM

any DOG NOT LION can be trained at birth to be good not lion lion different species and WILD.
dogs and humans are similar when it comes to raising its taken alot for me to realize that but its true
also my PITBULL was bred from to sweet dogs that would only lick you to death

You do realise that dogs are from Wolves right? Wolves, the animals that are wild. Just because dogs are domesticated doesn't mean they aren't going to be aggressive.

JC316

12-03-2009, 06:51 PM

Actually, I didn't say any of that. However,

- I do support the first point,
- Yes, agression is passed down genetically, to some extent. I know that DOES NOT mean all rottweilers are natural born killers
- I believe that that the environment is the MAIN factor

So we get to the animal rights part, because we can't control human behaviour without infringing human rights, animal rights have to go first. You can't ban the people (the real problem!) so ban the animal.

Of course it is not eliminated. I would never suggest that banning dogs would eliminate dog attacks. No ban/law eliminates the crime, but it can help reduce it.

Again, we agree to disagree.

If my neighbour's dogs would STFU, maybe my predjudice would decline. On the other hand, I think suspicion of rottweilers and pitbulls is quite rational. If one ran at me I'd probably get the fuck outta there!

That I can 100% understand. Neighbors had a dog that HOWLED like they were ripping his toes off one by one if they put him outside. I wanted to shoot that little bastard. I used to be scared of the Rotts and the Pitts, but not after learning them and knowing when to back off. Seriously though, the Rotties have to have their reputation because they are major pussies. Ryan was scared of the UPS truck, he would tuck stump and run if one got too close. I suspect that if he had caught those thieves, worst he would have done is knock em down.

Biggest thing is to NOT run from em. They love the chase more than anything on earth.

OK. I have a better understanding and respect of where your side of the argument is coming from.

And I you. I think if you ever owned a Rottie or a Pitt, your views would change slightly, I know mine sure did. I think the reason for the bad reps on them is because when they get in a fight, they zone out and don't listen to anything. Plus Rotts have the biggest bight pressure of any dog and Pitts are right behind them. Also, they are relentless until they tire out.

You do realise that dogs are from Wolves right? Wolves, the animals that are wild. Just because dogs are domesticated doesn't mean they aren't going to be aggressive.

I did a 5.1 home theater install for this complete nutjob once. He had a full blood, full grown, mother fucking timber wolf living in his house. He was a trucker and had ran over it's mom and took the pup in. Sucker loved him like any domesticated dog and didn't really mind me that much. Even came up and let me pet it. It dwarfed my 140lbs Rottie. Still, he has had it for the past 15 years and it has never once attacked anyone.

DrPepper

12-03-2009, 06:53 PM

I would kill for a wolve :laugh:

momentomoir

12-03-2009, 07:50 PM

You do realise that dogs are from Wolves right? Wolves, the animals that are wild. Just because dogs are domesticated doesn't mean they aren't going to be aggressive.

ok well i have a question where did cats come from lions, tigers, or what
answer me that
then that would mean there wild right and just as capable of killing a human to?

WhiteLotus

12-03-2009, 08:28 PM

ok well i have a question where did cats come from lions, tigers, or what
answer me that
then that would mean there wild right and just as capable of killing a human to?

dunno ask the Egyptians

momentomoir

12-03-2009, 08:34 PM

dunno ask the Egyptians

ok is there any egyptians on tpu? lol

but lets say they are ok
does that mean kittens are gonna start looking like this:
http://www.lolcats.com/images/u/08/40/lolcatsdotcompfwrw4ckzhx91wev.jpg(ch)
well not necessarily with guns
but will they start killing people since they are a descendant from a wild animal?

it only depends on there training how the dog will turn out

Wile E

12-04-2009, 03:36 AM

dr emulator (madmax)

12-04-2009, 07:52 AM

well i don't think they are a bad bread but one thing that they are is a powerfull creature capable of doing some serious damage, as cute as they may seem , now i have seen like i've said before idiots allowing there kids to kick one of these types of dog in the head, now if that had been my son or grandson (feels old saying it) i would have wipped his ass for doing it but some assh***s over here think that's how dogs need to be treated which makes me sick, no we shouldn't ban them just ban jerks from having them and ban them from having kids as well
oh and for anyone who thinks i don't like that bread, i do like them i just don't think i could ever realy trust one, and all dogs like people can snap and go off the rails, just these lot seem to be a bit mike tysony:D