I have commited Mustang treason. Falling in love with an F body.

[JC316]

Thats right, I went and picked up a 99 Camaro V6 today as a toy to play with, then sell. After driving it, I am falling in love with it. So much better handling and ride than my GT and it's a freaking 6 banger. Speaking of that 6 banger, it's one scrappy little bastard, I am shocked at how much power in has. It's been wrecked, but the damage is cosmetic. Will get the fleet together for a photo shoot once I get it fixed. 96GT, 99 Camaro, and an 89 Iroc-z.

[Wile E]

F bodies are crap. The chassis is too flexible. Throw springs and shocks on the Mustang that are as stiff as the Fbody pieces, and throw a lighter v6 under the hood, and I'm wiling to bet you'll change your mind about handling. They do hook better tho and get overall better rear traction, thanks to their Torque arm setup. Doesn't help the rest of the chassis tho, and does require higher spring rates.

I've said it a million times, GM makes killer drivetrains, but then they always stuff them in a chassis that isn't worthy of them. It's sad really.

[JC316]

F bodies are crap. The chassis is too flexible. Throw springs and shocks on the Mustang that are as stiff as the Fbody pieces, and throw a lighter v6 under the hood, and I'm wiling to bet you'll change your mind about handling. They do hook better tho and get overall better rear traction, thanks to their Torque arm setup. Doesn't help the rest of the chassis tho, and does require higher spring rates.

I've said it a million times, GM makes killer drivetrains, but then they always stuff them in a chassis that isn't worthy of them. It's sad really.

A lot of people say that the mustang chassis is too flexable, most wind up with subframe connectors. One thing that I didn't like was the rear end of the Camaro hops around more easily than the Mustang.

Where the Maro is infinitely better is on the inside. Seats, console, shifter, guages and stereo controls are RIGHT there. So much nicer than the crap on the stang.

[Wile E]

Yeah, but the Camaro is infinitely cheaper in build quality on the inside. Cheap plastic, shitty switches that feel like they might break if you look at them aggressively, shitty factory stereo, etc. Hell, even the seat fabric sucks compared to the mustang.

And the Fbodies need subframes just as much, but at least the Mustang doesn't turn into a rattle trap at 6 months old like most of the Fbodies around here. Drive on these shitty PA roads for a while, and you will figure out very quickly which chassis is built better.

[JC316]

Yeah, but the Camaro is infinitely cheaper in build quality on the inside. Cheap plastic, shitty switches that feel like they might break if you look at them aggressively, shitty factory stereo, etc. Hell, even the seat fabric sucks compared to the mustang.

And the Fbodies need subframes just as much, but at least the Mustang doesn't turn into a rattle trap at 6 months old like most of the Fbodies around here. Drive on these shitty PA roads for a while, and you will figure out very quickly which chassis is built better.

I dunno man, the interior seems pretty nice to me. More so in the 89 Iroc than the 99 V6, but still. This V6 has the Monsoon speakers and they aren't too bad, not the quality as the Bose 4.0 in my old Cadillac, but infinitely better than the JBL in my Mark VIII.

The quality could be because I am comparing it to my GTS, which is bare bones inside, worse than a 6 banger Mustang.

[Polaris573]

My brother has a '95 Firebird convertible. I love the exterior, but I agree with Wile E that the interior is junk for exactly the same reasons that he gave. I chuckled at the part about the switches breaking if you look at them too hard, that's what I told my brother and he got all defensive about it saying I was just used to my luxury sport coupe (Acura CL 3.0). F-bodies are still fun though, I'm glad you like it. I like them better than Mustangs if only because everyone and their grandmother owns a Mustang. You see far fewer Firebirds and Camaros.

http://img.techpowerup.org/100203/6533_626929680937_20609808_36947392_6812636_n.jpg

[95viper]

You coulda had a V8...j/k.

Hope you enjoy it. Anything with an engine is fun.

[erocker]

Thats right, I went and picked up a 99 Camaro V6 today as a toy to play with, then sell. After driving it, I am falling in love with it. So much better handling and ride than my GT and it's a freaking 6 banger. Speaking of that 6 banger, it's one scrappy little bastard, I am shocked at how much power in has. It's been wrecked, but the damage is cosmetic. Will get the fleet together for a photo shoot once I get it fixed. 96GT, 99 Camaro, and an 89 Iroc-z.

You must of been bit by a hallucinagentc bug. Go to the doctor!!! :eek:

[JC316]

You coulda had a V8...j/k.

Hope you enjoy it. Anything with an engine is fun.

Oh no, I am not keeping the V6 for long. I will wind up selling it and the Mustang and pick up a z28 or a trans am.

You must of been bit by a hallucinagentc bug. Go to the doctor!!! :eek:

That is actually what I thought when I bought a Ford. I have been a Chevy man for years. My cars went:

88 Silverado
95 Cadillac Seville
98 Cadillac Seville
95 Saturn SL2
c-c-c-c-combo breaker 96 Mustang.

[1Kurgan1]

Top swap it, go to a JY find a GTP and rip off the top end and toss it on. Be a huge increase for very little investment. The 3.8's are indestructible motors, the fastest Grand Prix 3.8L in the world is putting down 785whp on a completely stock block and rotating assembly, everything under the heads is completely stock.

It's funny because the LS motors are what the fbody's are known for, but most LS motors have issues cracking 550whp and holding together, where as the basic 3.8L hasn't actually had it's limits found yet. If you want cheap speed, the 3.8L in that RWD platform is where it's at, and it would be something completely different. With a turbo kit and a cam you can crack 500whp on a 3800. Thats a very small investment for that much power, granted it's a 4th gen, so it will toss the rearend eventually. But just letting you know, if you want power, those motors handle boost like no ones business, toss some at it (even on the JY cheap) and you'll see some nice gains.

Oh no, I am not keeping the V6 for long. I will wind up selling it and the Mustang and pick up a z28 or a trans am.

If your not ever worried about breaking much more than 500whp, I would just boost the 3800 and call it a day. It's just too easy to hit 500whp with one, and you can go higher, then your looking at headwork, if you want over 600 then maybe it's time to start looking LS, because then your going to be looking at a ton of headwork where LS's already flow really well.

[JC316]

Top swap it, go to a JY find a GTP and rip off the top end and toss it on. Be a huge increase for very little investment. The 3.8's are indestructible motors, the fastest Grand Prix 3.8L in the world is putting down 785whp on a completely stock block and rotating assembly, everything under the heads is completely stock.

It's funny because the LS motors are what the fbody's are known for, but most LS motors have issues cracking 550whp and holding together, where as the basic 3.8L hasn't actually had it's limits found yet. If you want cheap speed, the 3.8L in that RWD platform is where it's at, and it would be something completely different. With a turbo kit and a cam you can crack 500whp on a 3800. Thats a very small investment for that much power, granted it's a 4th gen, so it will toss the rearend eventually. But just letting you know, if you want power, those motors handle boost like no ones business, toss some at it (even on the JY cheap) and you'll see some nice gains.



If your not ever worried about breaking much more than 500whp, I would just boost the 3800 and call it a day. It's just too easy to hit 500whp with one, and you can go higher, then your looking at headwork, if you want over 600 then maybe it's time to start looking LS, because then your going to be looking at a ton of headwork where LS's already flow really well.


That is actually a really good idea. 6 banger insurance with V8 power. I wouldn't keep this one anyway though, it's a damned automatic. I just got a REALLY good deal on it and couldn't pass it up.

[Papahyooie]

One thing that I didn't like was the rear end of the Camaro hops around more easily than the Mustang.


Those V6 cameros were the car of choice for girls at my high school. I can't tell you how many of them hit the gas too hard and spun around into a tree or something... my cousin among them.

[1Kurgan1]

That is actually a really good idea. 6 banger insurance with V8 power. I wouldn't keep this one anyway though, it's a damned automatic. I just got a REALLY good deal on it and couldn't pass it up.

Yeah I never really looked into the 3800's till I got my car, but when I did I found out that even the NA 3800's are bullet proof. It's very easy to make power on these motors, too bad it's an auto, but I think the V6's only came as 5 speeds anyways as a manual which you would want a T-56 or T-6060 if you were going to run a manual, so it probably wouldn't matter much auto or manual as you would have to swap out the tranny anyways.

Right now theres a GTP up for sale on another forum I'm on, guy put in a cam, picked up an turbo kit (had a built tranny of course) and put down 505whp. No head work, stock TB, stock MAF, pretty unreal.

Either way, if your going to turn around and sell it, with the prices of your JY stuff down there I bet you could score a top swap for $200, get it tuned and be good to go. Investing $200 - $200 probably tack on $1000 or more to resale value, promoting your car for sale as being SUPAcharged is always good for business.

[JC316]

Yeah I never really looked into the 3800's till I got my car, but when I did I found out that even the NA 3800's are bullet proof. It's very easy to make power on these motors, too bad it's an auto, but I think the V6's only came as 5 speeds anyways as a manual which you would want a T-56 or T-6060 if you were going to run a manual, so it probably wouldn't matter much auto or manual as you would have to swap out the tranny anyways.

Right now theres a GTP up for sale on another forum I'm on, guy put in a cam, picked up an turbo kit (had a built tranny of course) and put down 505whp. No head work, stock TB, stock MAF, pretty unreal.

Either way, if your going to turn around and sell it, with the prices of your JY stuff down there I bet you could score a top swap for $200, get it tuned and be good to go. Investing $200 - $200 probably tack on $1000 or more to resale value, promoting your car for sale as being SUPAcharged is always good for business.

Oh, I knew they were bullet proof, I just didn't know they could take that kind of power stock. And I knew that I couldn't pass up a fully loaded, running and driving 99 Camaro with nothing wrong but wrecked hood and a headlight missing for $750

[1Kurgan1]

Wow this is a steal of a deal, $750, I still say top swap that, you'd only have like $1000 into it, that should easily go for 4 - 5k SC'd, god $750, thats just unreal. But yeah the 3800 is a crazy durable motor stock, the most power that I have seen from one was actually in a firebird, looks like he put down 843whp, but he had some aftermarket pistons in it, stock crank and connecting rods, still not a bad investment for 1000hp flywheel.

[JC316]

Wow this is a steal of a deal, $750, I still say top swap that, you'd only have like $1000 into it, that should easily go for 4 - 5k SC'd, god $750, thats just unreal. But yeah the 3800 is a crazy durable motor stock, the most power that I have seen from one was actually in a firebird, looks like he put down 843whp, but he had some aftermarket pistons in it, stock crank and connecting rods, still not a bad investment for 1000hp flywheel.


Yeah, I had to drive 40 miles at midnight to get it before the guy that was coming in the morning lol. Early bird might get the worm, but the night hawk gets the early bird. The hood is FUBAR, he ass ended a honda and it peeled the hood, but left the bumper, core supports, subframe, suspension, and air bags intact and undamaged. Sucker drives smooth as silk. I will have some fun with it and get a newer one with lower miles on it.

Are the crankshaft and rods forged? That is INSANE amounts of power on them.

[1Kurgan1]

Funny to say, no, none of it is forged. The L67 / L36 (L36 is NA, same bottom end, just higher comp) rods (97 - 03) are simple cast connecting rods and the L32 / L36 (L36 in NA) uses powdered metal. But as far as I hear, the guys running insanely high power don't care if it's powdered rods or not, they say if a rod does go, the L67 is better to have, because the L32/L36 rods will literally shatter which is very bad.

I also believe the crank is cast, and the pistons I know for sure are hyperutectic. I know everyone talks about the 2JZ's making crazy power, but they were built for it, that motor is built to take a punishment, where as it seems GM just seemed to put together that right combo of nothing special and wound up with something that loves to be punished.

Here's the firebird underhood shot, only one I could find.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k42/tim3800/PDRM0347.jpg

And heres the Grand Prix that put down 785whp, underneath all of that is a poor stock block, just crazy.
http://www.commercecreators.com/sites/folder456/site_images_system/user/TTGTFrontOff1.jpg

[JC316]

That is impressive. The mustang GT and Cobra rods/pistons can only take around 450RWHP. I will definitely be looking into the 3.8L when I get one. First things first though, got to fix the one I have lol.

[1Kurgan1]

Yeah, I always looked past the 3800 fbodys when looking at them, but after some research it would just be flat out fun to pull up and tell the other guys driving fbodys that yours is only a V6, then to just rip their doors off. It really tempts me to go that route sometime since I like the 4th gens a lot.

[Wile E]

I dunno man, the interior seems pretty nice to me. More so in the 89 Iroc than the 99 V6, but still. This V6 has the Monsoon speakers and they aren't too bad, not the quality as the Bose 4.0 in my old Cadillac, but infinitely better than the JBL in my Mark VIII.

The quality could be because I am comparing it to my GTS, which is bare bones inside, worse than a 6 banger Mustang.

Monsoons sound like total shit to an audiophile. It's good for rap, and that's about it. The Mach sound systems are infinitely better.

That is impressive. The mustang GT and Cobra rods/pistons can only take around 450RWHP. I will definitely be looking into the 3.8L when I get one. First things first though, got to fix the one I have lol.

'03 and up Cobras have no problem holding 1000HP. :D

[JC316]

Monsoons sound like total shit to an audiophile. It's good for rap, and that's about it. The Mach sound systems are infinitely better.



'03 and up Cobras have no problem holding 1000HP. :D


Nearly all stock sound systems sound like shit to an audiophile. Never heard the Mach sounds. The terminators are a whole different animal and over 15K in all instances.

[Wile E]

I know, the reference to the terminator was just a joke. And the Mach sound systems sound pretty decent. Better by far than Monsoon at least.

[JC316]

I know, the reference to the terminator was just a joke. And the Mach sound systems sound pretty decent. Better by far than Monsoon at least.

The damn Teksid motors should have had forged rods and pistons in them anyway. Best stock sound has been a tossup.

1. Bose 4.0 in my 98 Seville
2. Bose setup in an Infinity J30
3. JBL system in a 91 Lincoln Continental

All of those are REALLY good.

[Wile E]

Mach compares to the JBL setup.

[JC316]

Mach compares to the JBL setup.

Nice. I wound up with the cheepo mustang, so no mach for me. No matter, two 6x9 Polk Audio coaxial and two 6.5" coax alpine speakers hooked to a pioneer HU does just fine for my Stang.

Oh, one other really good stock stereo system is the Infinity system for the Dodge ram's.