The Secret Powers of Time

[Magibeg]

"Time is the most important resource you have. This video is a great example of how your perspective of time can change you."

http://blog.3rdeyeview.co.uk/biz/2010/05/28/the-secret-powers-of-time/

[regexorcist]

Why the categorization of people?
This is not about time, it's more like a Psychology lesson or waste of time. :(

[MT Alex]

Fantastic.

[Magibeg]

Why the categorization of people?
This is not about time, it's more like a Psychology lesson or waste of time. :(

It's to make it easier to relate and understand. Knowledge and understanding is never a waste of time.

[JC316]

Why the categorization of people?
This is not about time, it's more like a Psychology lesson or waste of time. :(


It's more on the mindset of time. Everything in life is pure perspective and this shows 6 general perspectives on time. Things that some people find important aren't important to others. I am more in the now than my family. I want a lot of sleep, I don't want pain, I am not concerned about the future and I don't have to plan every detail out. My family on the other hand always frets about the future, things to come, what COULD happen.

[regexorcist]

Philip Zimbardo is a retired psychology professor,
so, as I said it is basically a psychology lesson
where he categorizes people based on geographic location,
religion, sex and age. In addition, he plugs his friend's book. ;)

At least it was posted on the appropriate forum
General Nonsense

Magibeg, your a university student... right?

[DaMulta]

it has already happened before/

[Magibeg]

Magibeg, your a university student... right?

Indeed I was. I never claimed it was 100% credible I simply thought it was worth looking at. The more people expand their horizons the better as far as i'm concerned.

[FordGT90Concept]

All that marker board work is distracting. :(

[MT Alex]

All that marker board work is distracting. :(

????

Obviously you weren't a fan of School House Rock.;)

We briefly covered concepts of time in Sociology classes in college. Seems much more applicable as sociology than psychology.

[FordGT90Concept]

True. Psychology + time = theory of relativity (everyone preceives time differently and pending on circumstance). Time by itself is absolute. It knows only one direction and it is constant.


And no, I really wasn't a fan of School House Rock. I perfer watching someone's lips flap for some reason. Maybe I read lips to some extent.

[jmcslob]

Time is not Constant nor is it linear.....that's obvious
Just as obvious as this study was done in a very bias way.....

It is however Interesting but incredibly simplistic

This idea is nothing new I believe I remember reading something like this written 2300 years ago in Greece

[FordGT90Concept]

If it weren't, everyone and everything would get desynced. If someone talked to you, you wouldn't be able to understand it because it would most likely be before or after your time. The preception of time can be altered on the atomic level but on an even lower level (neutrinos, perhaps), it is constant. Time gives everything context.

[Magibeg]

If it weren't, everyone and everything would get desynced. If someone talked to you, you wouldn't be able to understand it because it would most likely be before or after your time. The preception of time can be altered on the atomic level but on an even lower level (neutrinos, perhaps), it is constant. Time gives everything context.

If I recall correctly it's mass and speed that determines time because space-time bends.

The article focuses more on the perception of time than the more physical aspects of time.

[FordGT90Concept]

The perception of time changes with a change in mass, velocity, and/or temperature; time itself does not.


As Einstein said, the perception of time is relative (he gave courting as an example). The perception of time travels slow for children and fast for adults. That is a function of the circadian rhythm. Also, time is preceived to travel slower when adernaline is in your blood system.


I agree that the current methods for teaching are dated and hardly effective. I was watching "Your Money" on CNN and they were talking about education for a while. It shouldn't suprise you that this (schools being ineffective) is not new. Everyone has a different idea how schools should be ran. Implement one person's ideas, they conflict another person's, and basically the effectiveness rermains low.

Combining the two above paragraphs, you pretty much have to conclude that this "time = disasterous" yada yada in the video just another theory to through at the second paragraph which concludes it is not good enough...


My conclusion: meh.

[jmcslob]

With enough mass time begins to warp same as light....and time is not linear it flows in every direction and not always in a straight path....
Geese didn't you ever watch Stargate They explain that at the Event Horizon of a Black hole nothing remains at a constant not even time.....Not only does it make great TV it's an actually theory and part of Quantum mechanics as well

[FordGT90Concept]

perception of time warps, time itself does not. For all those not in the gravity well, life marches on. When they come back, its as if nothing out of the ordinary happened.

You can flap your wrist faster than you can flap your arm. The smaller things are, the faster they can move. No matter how fast it moves, it is still your arm although your fingers are actually perceiving time faster than your elbow. The body on the hole is still on a singular clock.

Name one example that proves time having more dimensions than one.

The only theory which alludes to that is quantum physics. My answer to that is: not enough information. Our machinery can only detect their shadow. There's absolutely no reason to believe that something significant isn't missing. Look how many theories have been proposed to describe quantum physics and every time a descent one comes along, another replaces it. People have been trying to figure it out since Einstein (the theory of everything).


Again, time is ever-present. Without time, nothing has context.

[Magibeg]

"Scientists flew clocks to higher and higher altitudes, until one was eventually sent into space using a rocket. No one managed to infirm the idea underlying Einstein’s prediction. in the new study, the UCB team looked at the time-shifting effects of gravity with a mind-boggling degree of precision."

http://www.vx50.com/latest-news/einsteins-relativity-proven-with-atomic-clock-the-experiments-were-done-on-a/

Basically time is warped and twisted by gravity, speed, and electromagnetic fields.

Picture time as a sheet of rubber pulled tight than placed over a bumpy terrain. The tension in the rubber will be different in certain places based on the bumps.

Time is only constant when not influenced by other sources which isn't the case within the universe.

Because time is relative by very definition it cannot be a constant.

[El Fiendo]

????

Obviously you weren't a fan of School House Rock.;)

We briefly covered concepts of time in Sociology classes in college. Seems much more applicable as sociology than psychology.

I don't really care about anything else in the thread, OP has an alright vid I guess. I just wanted to say 'conjunction junction, what's your function?'

[MT Alex]

"So exercise those choppers on some good hard food!"

[FordGT90Concept]

"Scientists flew clocks to higher and higher altitudes, until one was eventually sent into space using a rocket. No one managed to infirm the idea underlying Einstein’s prediction. in the new study, the UCB team looked at the time-shifting effects of gravity with a mind-boggling degree of precision."

http://www.vx50.com/latest-news/einsteins-relativity-proven-with-atomic-clock-the-experiments-were-done-on-a/
Imagine a ball bouncing back and forward in a tube with springs on either end keeping it moving. Mount it to a vehicle, parrallel to the direction the vehicle will move. Move the vehicle forward. Every time the ball moves in the same direction as the vehicle, that trip will take longer because it is covering more distance than had it been sitting still; likewise, every time the ball moves towards the opposite direction of the vehicle, it takes less time because it has less distance to cover. Atomic clocks are the same way. They measure the speed of atoms, not time: relativity. Atoms are simply the closest we can measure to the real clock (cyclical event) that occurs in all particles (light, atoms, etc.). The speed of light probably has a lot to do with that real clock--nothing can travel faster than time itself.



Basically time is warped and twisted by gravity, speed, and electromagnetic fields.

Picture time as a sheet of rubber pulled tight than placed over a bumpy terrain. The tension in the rubber will be different in certain places based on the bumps.

Time is only constant when not influenced by other sources which isn't the case within the universe.

Because time is relative by very definition it cannot be a constant.
Gravity affects what? Particles (atoms included).
Speed affects what? Particles (atoms included).
Electromagnetic fields affects what? Particles (atoms included).

Why is your rubber band variable? Atoms (heavy atoms behave differently to those stimuli than light atoms--composition matters).

Jeopordy: How to measure the cyclical clock of particles (or atoms)? *ding ding* Winner!

Correction: atoms are only constant when not manipulated by an outside source.


Time can't be constant in the sense of c in E=mc^2 but it can be constant in terms of Hz: it goes from state A to state B to state A to state B every x number of units. x is constant. If it is not constant, you must dig deeper.

Basically, x is a component of guaranteeing the laws of conservation of mass and conservation of energy hold true. x = e. In the universe, for every period of x, there is e energy in the universe. That ratio is also constant.



I should have been in bed hours ago so this might be a bit...noncoherent. :p

[Magibeg]

Haha it still kinda makes sense.

But here's another thought experiment to consider that i saw on a video. Lets say you have a sister and a scooter that goes nearly the speed of light. You say "I'm going to go ride on my scooter and i'll be back in 5 minutes" and you take off. You whiz around circling the earth at nearly 7 times per second for 5 minutes then return back. Instead of your sister, standing there now is your sisters great grand child.

Because of your speed you successfully bent time. Time is no more constant than lake water is smooth as glass. It's filled with ripples and waves. That's the part that means it's not constant. True time my always be headed in the same direction but it's filled with variation. So if time is relative it cannot be a constant, although the direction of time can be constant.

[jmcslob]

And all that is because time is based upon the distance of light traveled in a cylindrical vacuum..Time is expected to be linear because light travels in a linear manner only altering course when enacted upon by an outside force....

For me that's to much of an assumption

i think what ford is saying is that time as we know it is a perception and that time as a physical force must remain at a constant
I also think he saying that time can be measured like frequency But you must consider that electrical frequency is determined by the mass flow of electrons and only remains constant so long as another form of energy is creating a flow

With time we consider the energy constant to be light and the faster you move within light would equal less time experienced but remain the same for time perceived LOL

So to me that just sounds silly

[FordGT90Concept]

But here's another thought experiment to consider that i saw on a video. Lets say you have a sister and a scooter that goes nearly the speed of light. You say "I'm going to go ride on my scooter and i'll be back in 5 minutes" and you take off. You whiz around circling the earth at nearly 7 times per second for 5 minutes then return back. Instead of your sister, standing there now is your sisters great grand child.
My atoms, relative to hers, are oscilating much slower which causes the perception of time to greatly decrease on all levels (atomic and circadian rhythm); however, "my" sister could see my space craft going around the Earth 7 times per second. Likewise, I could theoretically see her too. She could, for example, concauctic a scheme to stop me. Even though my perception of time is altered by a large degree and hers is not, the real time is still constant (allowing interactions to take place).


And all that is because time is based upon the distance of light traveled in a cylindrical vacuum..Time is expected to be linear because light travels in a linear manner only altering course when enacted upon by an outside force....
Um, a light year is a measure of distance which requires the speed of light (km/s^2) the variable second. As demonstrated by the example above, the second losses its relevance when not on Earth.


i think what ford is saying is that time as we know it is a perception and that time as a physical force must remain at a constant
I also think he saying that time can be measured like frequency But you must consider that electrical frequency is determined by the mass flow of electrons and only remains constant so long as another form of energy is creating a flow

With time we consider the energy constant to be light and the faster you move within light would equal less time experienced but remain the same for time perceived LOL
Ask yourself this: why is the velocity at which light moves restricted? Why is it not infinite? The same traits which present themselves in mass in motion apply to particles. Electrons cannot move any faster than x speed because they are being limited by their very composition, as is light. Everything is connected by a single cyclical event. If it weren't, the universe would be chatoic and inhospitable.



If I am right that there is a cyclical event connecting everything, one could cover virtually infinite amount of distance instantly (at least preceived to be instant by everyone). Time travel, would still not be possible.

[Papahyooie]

However you're looking down at her for five minutes. She's looking up at you for a much longer time.

[FordGT90Concept]

Preceived time, not real time. It seems short to me, long to her. It is still the same real time, however, or else we wouldn't be able to see eachother ever again--no one would. It is what keeps everyone on the same plane of existance.

[Papahyooie]

That's what people said before Einstein. That's a linear, nonrelative idea of time. I do get what you're saying, but it just simply isn't the case. That's the whole idea of relativity. Since time isn't constant, speed affects the passage of time. There is no "plane" of existance with "real" time. That's the whole conundrum that relativity addresses. It's also why time travel would not be possible. In your scenario it would theoretically be possible since time would be a constant stream.

[FordGT90Concept]

Read my past three posts. I explained how time is constant (the cyclical event of it at least) and how velocity effects atoms, not time itself.


Therein lies the problem, it may be impossible to alter the cyclical event. If we could, we could slow or speed up time relative to everything else. We could not stop it. 90% says we can't because you'd risk getting desynced which basically means you exist, but not here...


I take that back, it is impossible to alter the cyclical event. It is inescapable and absolute. It creates too many paradoxes to be possible.

[Papahyooie]

Well according to the theories, it does effect time itself, not just atoms. The "cyclical event" is exactly what is altered because of speed. That's not detrimental to the cyclical event, that's exactly WHY your sister could see you, even though time is going much slower for you. The "Back to the Future" style model of time (alternate realities, and desyncing) is contradictory to relativity, and relativity of time is *why* we can't.

[FordGT90Concept]

If it did, we wouldn't be able to have this conversation and people that travel in space would come back to Earth to find it a very different place (largely, everything missing; perhaps the planet itself).

Again, answer the question I posed before: Why is the velocity of everything (including light) limited? Why isn't it infinite? There are physical restrictions in place and those restrictions best define time.


"The fabric of time" was an example Einstein used to help people visualize relativity. What I'm talking about literally defines that fabric and its properties.

[Wile E]

OOOk, somebody care to give me the short version of what's happening in here?

[FordGT90Concept]

The physics of time.

[DaMulta]

OOOk, somebody care to give me the short version of what's happening in here?

There was this guy, and there was this girl. They got together, and made a small child that one day could save us all!

[regexorcist]

And you guys didn't like LOST :confused:

Physics, Time, Perception, Numbers, Magnetism, etc..
along with Smoke Monster and Golden Lab dog (what's not to like :p)

[jmcslob]

If it did, we wouldn't be able to have this conversation and people that travel in space would come back to Earth to find it a very different place (largely, everything missing; perhaps the planet itself).

Again, answer the question I posed before: Why is the velocity of everything (including light) limited? Why isn't it infinite? There are physical restrictions in place and those restrictions best define time.


"The fabric of time" was an example Einstein used to help people visualize relativity. What I'm talking about literally defines that fabric and its properties.
But that's because were stuck in a constant set flow
For Example it's like saying our universe exists in an electrical circuit that is flowing at 120hz of course we only perceive events that flow at that rate but it doesn't mean that things don't exist or happen out of our perceived rate of existence we just can't see them

[FordGT90Concept]

But that's because were stuck in a constant set flow
For Example it's like saying our universe exists in an electrical circuit that is flowing at 120hz of course we only perceive events that flow at that rate but it doesn't mean that things don't exist or happen out of our perceived rate of existence we just can't see them
Um, no. If that were true, you're talking about parallel universes or multiverse. Parrallel universes is wasteful and therefore, the probability of it existing is none. Multiverse could be true but they can't overlap lest it be part of the presiding universe.

[Papahyooie]

I guess we're arguing the same point in different ways... yes there are no multiple timelines, and one cannot get desyced from the timeline through speed. But the reason for this is not that time is unchangable, it is that it IS changable. If you go at near the speed of light, your time will slow down. But youre still in the same "plane of existance." This would not be possible if time were static, and when time sped up or slowed down, we'd go all back to the future style and get desynced with our timeline. That was the whole point of relativity. That's the reason the theory exists, and the experiments prove it (at least as far as it can be proven anyway.)
A video we watched in physics class back in high school explained the "maximum speed" like this: It's impossible to actually go the speed of light because anything after that, and time slows down to 0. That's why there is a maximum speed, not because time is constant.
Youre still thinking of time as a static chain of events.... the reason your sister can reach out and stop you (or shoot you with a missile or whatever lol) when youre near the speed of light (and therefore time is slowed) is *because* time is not static. Perception of time is not what changes with speed... time itself does. ACTUAL time is altered at speed, and we are kept on the same plane of existance DUE to the fact that time is relative. You can't think of it in a back to the future mentality because that's not how it works.

[FordGT90Concept]

You're still thinking too high up the chain. Try to explain how relativity works. The smaller the mass, the closer you get to the source of time and energy--the most basic unit of the universe.

The perception of time slows down to zero but time itself does not. The speed of light is merely the fastest light can travel in a vacuum. I believe there are even faster particles out there and they can go faster because they have even less mass than light.


Let's try to look at this from a different approach: from the real time clock. Using real time (based on ticks of the base clock), you could not only predict where every electron in the universe is located at any given tick, you could also predict where every ray of light is and every black hole. If you could stop the base clock, the universe would transition from a lively plrace to picturesque. Nothing, no where, moves. That is the syncing effect of "real time." As you return the ticks to the base clock, it doesn't matter if it is light or a turtle, they all resume to their velocities advanced tick by tick. Your rays of light would move a relatively substantial distance, you're turtle would barely move at all.

This is the unit of time we must seek and define. It is absolute everywhere in the universe--not variable like the second. Theoretically, you could triangulate the frequency of the real clock by using two known frequencies divided by their mass. I don't think we know the mass of a particle of light so that would be the first objective.

[Papahyooie]

But there have been experiments where they take two sychronized atomic clocks, and take one of them in a plane at several times the speed of sound, and after the trip the two clocks are minutely desynchronized. The time youre talking about is the old model. It's been proven to be wrong (once again, as far as we can prove anything with out current knowledge anyway)

[FordGT90Concept]

I already explained that (http://www.generalnonsense.net/showpost.php?p=49755&postcount=21). Atomic clocks prove the theory of relativity. It doesn't show that there is not a constant tick rate lower on the chain (quantum level, or lower).

[Papahyooie]

yes, but the point of relativity is that x is NOT constant... nevermind we're just gonna bumper cars this shit lol. /white flag.

[Magibeg]

OK, i'm going to admit before hand that i'm a little drunk posting this.


But basically ford is claiming that time is constant despite the fact that atoms and basically everything slows down at speed. So my question to ford is how can we possibly test his idea given that everything we know of reacts based on relativity. And how does he explain why everything slows down with speed while time remains constant.

[FordGT90Concept]

yes, but the point of relativity is that x is NOT constant... nevermind we're just gonna bumper cars this shit lol. /white flag.
What I've been saying is x is constant, but all your examples include y.

x - y = z

where

x = the constant tick of time
y = variables (like velocity, mass, circadian rhythm, adrenaline rushes, etc.) invoking the theory of relativity
z = perception of time

If you want to tell time anywhere in the universe, the answer is x, not y. Get it now?


So my question to ford is how can we possibly test his idea given that everything we know of reacts based on relativity. And how does he explain why everything slows down with speed while time remains constant.
As I said before, solve for x. If we keep digging for the answer that makes everything tick in sync, we'll eventually find x--the constant.

The frequency of x is likely to be in the GHz or greater--much greater. Every step of complexity that most basic unit in the universe gets, the more y drags on it.

[regexorcist]

OK, i'm going to admit before hand that i'm a little drunk posting this.


But basically ford is claiming that time is constant despite the fact that atoms and basically everything slows down at speed. So my question to ford is how can we possibly test his idea given that everything we know of reacts based on relativity. And how does he explain why everything slows down with speed while time remains constant.
:D This thread cracks me up, you started a good one Magibeg (toast)

To answer your question or at least try...
How about an Atom Interferometer

[mlee49]

ok, i'm going to admit before hand that i'm a little drunk posting this.


But basically ford is claiming that time is constant despite the fact that atoms and basically everything slows down at speed. So my question to ford is how can we possibly test his idea given that everything we know of reacts based on relativity. And how does he explain why everything slows down with speed while time remains constant.


is there a particle physicist in the building?

[FordGT90Concept]

Atom Interferometer
A who-the-whaten?



is there a particle physicist in the building?
I wasn't aware there was a building. :confused:

[regexorcist]

But basically ford is claiming that time is constant despite the fact that atoms and basically everything slows down at speed. So my question to ford is how can we possibly test his idea given that everything we know of reacts based on relativity. And how does he explain why everything slows down with speed while time remains constant.
To answer your question or at least try...
How about an Atom Interferometer

A who-the-whaten?
You've been posting about time/relativity and you have no
idea what an interferometer is??? :confused:

You come close to describing one in post #38

Without something like an interferometer, it's all just talk!!!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100217131125.htm

[Papahyooie]

What I've been saying is x is constant, but all your examples include y.

x - y = z

where

x = the constant tick of time
y = variables (like velocity, mass, circadian rhythm, adrenaline rushes, etc.) invoking the theory of relativity
z = perception of time

If you want to tell time anywhere in the universe, the answer is x, not y. Get it now?



As I said before, solve for x. If we keep digging for the answer that makes everything tick in sync, we'll eventually find x--the constant.

The frequency of x is likely to be in the GHz or greater--much greater. Every step of complexity that most basic unit in the universe gets, the more y drags on it.

We're not talking about the perception of time though... relativity addresses actual time... When you're going near the speed of light, you percieve time at the same rate that you do at zero. But the fact is your time is going faster than someone at zero. The "tick" goes faster at speed, not in sync with the tick at zero.

[mlee49]

A who-the-whaten?



I wasn't aware there was a building. :confused:

There is no building...

http://courses.ece.ubc.ca/373/library/images/photo_movieMatrix-quoteSpoon.jpg

[regexorcist]

There is no building...

http://courses.ece.ubc.ca/373/library/images/photo_movieMatrix-quoteSpoon.jpg
Thank god for the humor,
jokes haven't gone over well on this thread
they get skipped over.

That poor boy has lost his hair already,
time is moving fast for him, he should get married quick
before something else ages too quickly

[Papahyooie]

Thank god for the humor,
jokes haven't gone over well on this thread
they get skipped over.

http://img.techpowerup.org/100602/srsbzns.jpg

[regexorcist]

http://img.techpowerup.org/100602/srsbzns.jpgNice!!

[Papahyooie]

Nice!!

Thanks lol, I got plenty of those.

http://img.techpowerup.org/100602/base.gif

http://img.techpowerup.org/100602/fence_posts.jpg

http://img.techpowerup.org/100602/inbeforethelock.jpg

http://img.techpowerup.org/100602/relevantthread.jpg

[regexorcist]

I really laughed at that relevant post!! :D

Good Stuff!!

[FordGT90Concept]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100217131125.htm

Müller tested Einstein's theory by taking advantage of a tenet of quantum mechanics: that matter is both a particle and a wave.
The partical is the matter that makes it relevant to the universe. The wave represents time (a frequency). Every wavelength in that chart represents a specific time measurement for cesium.

But what gives elements on the quantum level those traits? Again, define that and you are one step closer to the the fundamental element everything in the universe is made of which concretely defines time.

Just as an optical interferometer uses interfering light waves to measure time or distance to within to a fraction of a wavelength, an atom interferometer uses interfering matter waves. Because matter waves oscillate at a much higher frequency than light waves, they can be used to measure correspondingly smaller times and distances.


We're not talking about the perception of time though... relativity addresses actual time... When you're going near the speed of light, you percieve time at the same rate that you do at zero. But the fact is your time is going faster than someone at zero. The "tick" goes faster at speed, not in sync with the tick at zero.
It's only "actual time" if you use seconds (a notoriously inaccurate unit of time) to measure it. I'm saying the premise on which the second is based is flawed. We need a better way to measure time.

[Magibeg]

Well there was a show on the discovery channel last night featuring Stephen Hawking and such and it dealt entirely with time.

Basically matter causes a drag on time which slows things down. The GPS has to constantly recalibrate because it loses around 1 billionth of a second every day due to time slowing down.

Also interestingly enough if you theoretically start going the speed of light on a train and you try to take a step forward while in the train your speed is added in addition to the speed the train is going so you'll never actually 'get' to move forward because time will slow down so much for you that you would never make it. Basically it protects the speed limit.

The whole premise of the show was basically that time was not constant (they literally said it).

Now back to ford:

Why do you need to invoke a constant for time? Because of us existing as matter and what not it would be literally impossible to measure your 'time'. I'm still not exactly sure how we could test it when everything we do greatly reinforces relativity.

Also if time is a constant how do you explain relativity happening?

[FordGT90Concept]

Why do you need to invoke a constant for time?
Because if there wasn't a constant to time, the present would not exist. Present would lose context making everything relative to everything else be it before or after the present--desynced.


Also if time is a constant how do you explain relativity happening?
See my explaination before: x - y = z


Let's say real time is 10 yottahertz or x = 10 YHz and the atoms of a plastic here on Earth is at 1 terahertz or z = 1 THz.

x - y = z
10 YHz - y = 1 THz
10 YHz = 1 THz + y
10 YHz - 1 THz = y
9,999,999,999,999,000,000,000,000 Hz = y

y accounts for gravity, velocity, mass, and all the other steps between real time and relative time (frequency of electrons, neutrons, protons, and forms of mass that are even smaller).


Therefore, if you want to find out what time it is no matter the circumstances, it is best to use real time - your variables to find out precisely what time it is.


The sum of relativity (constant less variables) is z in that equation.

[Magibeg]

Because if there wasn't a constant to time, the present would not exist. Present would lose context making everything relative to everything else be it before or after the present--desynced.


But here's the thing though, everyone IS de-synced to some extent. The effects are just less obvious until you take it to the extremes.

Another example was that time is basically a river flowing along. Based on whatever obstacles are in the way the flow rate changes in different sections of the river. The direction is always the same but the rate is moves varies wildly. As such there is no constant rate for the river, only flow rates for the conditions you're currently under.


See my explaination before: x - y = z


Let's say real time is 10 yottahertz or x = 10 YHz and the atoms of a plastic here on Earth is at 1 terahertz or z = 1 THz.

x - y = z
10 YHz - y = 1 THz
10 YHz = 1 THz + y
10 YHz - 1 THz = y
9,999,999,999,999,000,000,000,000 Hz = y

y accounts for gravity, velocity, mass, and all the other steps between real time and relative time (frequency of electrons, neutrons, protons, and forms of mass that are even smaller).


Therefore, if you want to find out what time it is no matter the circumstances, it is best to use real time - your variables to find out precisely what time it is.


The sum of relativity (constant less variables) is z in that equation.

Yea but you still need to assume that there is a constant which there doesn't appear to be. You're not really finding a constant in time so much as inventing a new way to read a clock. The first thing you do is create a number that represents real time.

Unfortunately time is much more complex than you're making it out to be. Time is literally just a concept for which we measure changes in state in the universe. These changes in state happen in different rates depending on the conditions around the changes.

Think of it more like each individual atom in the universe has its own 'time' based on the conditions it's under. There is no constant because time is just a concept that is measured by state change.

[FordGT90Concept]

But here's the thing though, everyone IS de-synced to some extent. The effects are just less obvious until you take it to the extremes.
No, we aren't. People go to space and come back down. People on Earth aged more than they did during that period but everyone is still on the same page. People in space can easily be made aware of what is going on here on Earth. Speed it up and the delay is simply greater. Everything is still very much in time with everything else.


Yea but you still need to assume that there is a constant which there doesn't appear to be. You're not really finding a constant in time so much as inventing a new way to read a clock. The first thing you do is create a number that represents real time.

Unfortunately time is much more complex than you're making it out to be. Time is literally just a concept for which we measure changes in state in the universe. These changes in state happen in different rates depending on the conditions around the changes.

Think of it more like each individual atom in the universe has its own 'time' based on the conditions it's under. There is no constant because time is just a concept that is measured by state change.
Try to explain how relativity could work if there wasn't a constant, anchoring attribute. The result would be parallel universes which "doesn't appear to be" the case.

Each atom does have it's own time relativity to the constant clocks which form its very basis...

I think you aren't getting what I'm saying. I described it here (http://www.generalnonsense.net/showpost.php?p=50125&postcount=38).

A different analogy: Think of the universe as a huge multicore computer. There is one core for every "real clock" in existence. I'm not going to put a number on that because it is the nearest thing to infinite in the universe. The big bang most likely caused all these clocks to come into existence and that singular event set them all. Basically, it's like creating a symmetrical application to run on every single core in that processor. That is, these bazillion cores now experience a tick at the exact same time, all the time. You now have the basis for everything. It ticks, and it tocks--this represents energy at its most primitive level. It may be purely electrical or some phenomena currently undescribed by man. It has no mass--the only thing in existence that doesn't, but creates the illusion of mass through the tick-tock energy it possess (think of it like trapping air in a glass jar and measuring the mass of the air).

Now you have the foundation for time and energy. If you put dozen of these together in a specific way, for instance, you create a photon. If you create a lot of these and radiate them from a source, you got a ray of light. If you arrange them a different way, you got a proton. Change their structure, you'll get an electron and neutron. Put the three together and you got hydrogen. Collide hydrogen with hydrogen and you got fusion. Some of these fundamental elements decompose to their natural state, and instantly pair up again to create the entire electromagnetic spectrum as well as heavier atoms. Turn on a light, the electrons are decomposed to their natural state and recompose as photons and the energy behind infrared. As infrared strikes a surface, they excite the surface they strike and either become a part of it or radiate off of it.

If you can explain time, you explain energy. If you can explain energy, you can explain everything in the physical universe.


Just as your computer can't function without keeping time (regulate the Hz), the universe can't function without keeping time.


Relativity is the relationship among these primitive structures. I used the arm analogy before (wrist moves faster than the shoulder). Every primal structure has its constant tick-tock rate but the more of them you pile together, the more they take on different behavior as a whole. Velocity slows time not because of velocity, but mass in motion relative to other mass. Gravity slows time not because of gravity, but also because of mass. The bigger something is, the harder it is to excite (or vibrate, in a sense) causing it to slow down relative to something not experiencing that same "crowdedness."


Edit: You are saying something in space is moving relatively slow compared to time on Earth. I'm saying the elemental substance that forms the foundation for both is keeping time regardless of what the larger bodies are doing.

Another analogy: the elemental clock is to modern day atomic clocks as relativity is to a watch, computer, or wall clock. The atomic clock is (theoretically) constant. All other clocks are set relative to it.

[yogurt_21]

I think you're both talking about different times. One is talking about time as a variable (time on earth, time progression, etc) the other is talking about time as a concept.

time as a concept is definitive and constant.
time as a variable is not.

once exists as a useage for mathmatics and science, the other is used in advanced theory in the liberal arts (psychology, literary theory, critical theory, philosophy, and etc).

[El Fiendo]

If you don't mind, I think I'll call in some experts for their view on the subject:


1V71MQEUJKY

Fascinating.

[Papahyooie]

No, we aren't. People go to space and come back down. People on Earth aged more than they did during that period but everyone is still on the same page. People in space can easily be made aware of what is going on here on Earth. Speed it up and the delay is simply greater. Everything is still very much in time with everything else.


Everything is still in time with everything else BECAUSE of relativity. Water in the "river" doesn't become desynced with other water simply because it's flowing faster or slower.

Simply put, you're putting time into the box that was the model for time before einstein. Your analogy with real time clocks and the tick tock of atoms at a yhz level is simply wrong (according to current models anyway.) Yhz can be faster for one atom relative to another atom.

[FordGT90Concept]

Simply put, you're putting time into the box that was the model for time before einstein. Your analogy with real time clocks and the tick tock of atoms at a yhz level is simply wrong (according to current models anyway.) Yhz can be faster for one atom relative to another atom.
I explained that too. Something always causes it to have a different frequency.