Is Obama Ever Enough?

[Magibeg]

http://www.politicususa.com/en/obama-satisfaction

"From the time that Barack Obama campaigned for the Democratic Nomination for President to a year and a half into his Presidency, he has been hammered by the GOP, the media, big corporations, the Tea Party and even some Democrats for not being enough. Every day there is an attack on Obama for never being enough of something. Can we ever be satisfied?"

[Laurijan]

Ahh and Bush was enough asshole?

[JC316]

Oh, I think all American's agree that we have had enough of him. The ONE thing that royally pisses me off about him is that damned health care. People like me are fucked. I am a high risk for insurance companies, so I am boned.

[erocker]

Obama has been more than enough. He's too much. Way too much.

[WhiteLotus]

He's not even my President and i've had enough of him. He can take that smarmy smile of his and cram it up his ass.

[SK-1]

You've gotta be shitting me Mag... You just got to be shitting all of us.

[FordGT90Concept]

Hate to say I told you so. :p

He's too far left for moderates and Republicans not to be completely opposed and all the negativity that comes from them, plus elections coming up, has turned Democrats against Democrats.

Once Republicans take back Congress in a few months, I bet they'll be looking for the first opportunity to impeech Obama.


Was George W. Bush really that bad by comparison?

[WhiteLotus]

Hate to say I told you so. :p

He's too far left for moderates and Republicans not to be completely opposed and all the negativity that comes from them, plus elections coming up, has turned Democrats against Democrats.

Once Republicans take back Congress in a few months, I bet they'll be looking for the first opportunity to impeech Obama.


Was George W. Bush really that bad by comparison?

Other than his War mongering (Afghanistan totally agree with, Iraq not so much. But what is done is done.) he really wasn't that bad. Although I have no clue what kind of tax changes etc he imposed because they didn't bother me, thus I didn't read too much into it.

[JC316]

Hate to say I told you so. :p

He's too far left for moderates and Republicans not to be completely opposed and all the negativity that comes from them, plus elections coming up, has turned Democrats against Democrats.

Once Republicans take back Congress in a few months, I bet they'll be looking for the first opportunity to impeech Obama.


Was George W. Bush really that bad by comparison?

Yes, Bush was that bad. He demolished so many American freedoms in the name of "Security" that it's not even close to funny.

[momentomoir]

Hate to say I told you so. :p

He's too far left for moderates and Republicans not to be completely opposed and all the negativity that comes from them, plus elections coming up, has turned Democrats against Democrats.

Once Republicans take back Congress in a few months, I bet they'll be looking for the first opportunity to impeech Obama.


Was George W. Bush really that bad by comparison?

Thats bc hes not a demo or rep or in between

[FordGT90Concept]

He sides with the Democrats on domestic issues and Republicans on the international issues. Since international issues are not on people's mind, he comes across as left, extremely left. Yet, even Progressives (aka Socialists) are saying he's not left enough.

I agree with the premise of the article Magibeg linked: there is really nothing positive said about Obama. He is being attacked from every direction.

[mlee49]

"Change you can believe in."


I dont believe it.

[FordGT90Concept]

Other than his War mongering (Afghanistan totally agree with, Iraq not so much. But what is done is done.) he really wasn't that bad. Although I have no clue what kind of tax changes etc he imposed because they didn't bother me, thus I didn't read too much into it.
The only tax change I'm aware of is the "Bush Tax Cuts" which were created by the advice of Alan Greenspan (Federal Reserve chair at the time).

Iraq, in hindsight, was a bad idea but in foresight, there was only one way to find out. You can't blame someone for acting on intelligence thought to be true but turned out to be false.


Yes, Bush was that bad. He demolished so many American freedoms in the name of "Security" that it's not even close to funny.
I can't name one instance where my freedoms have been violated "in the name of security." Can you?

[Papahyooie]

Of course we'll never be satisfied... we're Americans. When Clinton was in office, everyone wanted him out. When Bush was in office, everyone wanted him out. Now that Obama is in office, everyone wants him out. Those are the presidents I'm old enough to have cared about, but I'm sure it stretches back all the way to the beginning.

Now before everyone says "I didnt want (insert president here) out when he was in office," I'm not saying EVERYONE wanted them out... but people are loudest when they are complaining, so it really seems that way. Not to mention, people want to hear complaining; in the media, in debates, in everyday political bantering... all we want to talk about is the negatives. It's basic human psychology. Nobody should be surprised. Even those who believe that people shouldnt complain will write an article complaining about people who complain :rolleyes:

That being said, people have different views. The person writing the article is ALWAYS going to see the other side's views as invalid... that really should be a given. To call someone else's opinion "complaining" shows immaturity and lack of understanding on the part of the author. He cites many examples of Obama not being "this enough." Well, if he thinks Obama is enough, more power to him... but everyone who disagrees is complaining. As I said, that shows immaturity, lack of understanding, and moreover IMO, lack of intelligence. If he had really thought through what he was saying, it would have come out to him, as it does to thinking people, as a simple "of... fucking... course...."

EDIT: unless of course he is smarter than he seems, and is trying to socially engineer readers into accepting his viewpoint because the readers do not want to be "complainers." I'm sure there are many who would fall into this trap, and "realize" to themselves that we should all get along and get behind Obama for the sake of being team players, and not complaining. If that is the case... shame on him.

[mlee49]

The only tax change I'm aware of is the "Bush Tax Cuts" which were created by the advice of Alan Greenspan (Federal Reserve chair at the time).

Iraq, in hindsight, was a bad idea but in foresight, there was only one way to find out. You can't blame someone for acting on intelligence thought to be true but turned out to be false.



I can't name one instance where my freedoms have been violated "in the name of security." Can you?

Just because your freedom's have not been violated does not mean they are not are not in jeopardy at any moment under the Patriot Act
I'm not trying to start an argument but they leeway to more governmental control has been extended. Arguably more 'detainments' have occurred under suspicion.

[Papahyooie]

Another thing that makes me believe even more that this author lacks intelligence or is deceiving with rhetoric: "Obama is a strong leader for the people. " ANY, I emphasize, ANY person who believes that ANY politician, whether republican democrat or otherwise is working for the masses, is naive. And to believe that a democrat or progressive is working for the people is simply farcicle. The last few paragraphs of this article read like an excerpt from Animal Farm or 1984. Progressives most of all are about BIG GOVERNMENT. Why people fall for a farcicle notion that big government can EVER be good for the masses is beyond me. It's taking two completely different and nearly opposite viewpoints and mashing them together to try to make them compatable. IMO democrats (or liberals in general) seem to be good at that. Gays should be free to marry, people should be free to smoke pot, women should be free to choose abortion as an option... these are staples of the democratic and liberal platform. All these "freedoms" for the people... but we're not even free to opt out of healthcare? Democratic government has taken a hippy viewpoint of freedom and cooperation and egalitarianism and twisted, disguised, and exploited it for two things: Control, and Money.

The very notion: A large, powerful, restrictive government can provide the masses with freedom and prosperity.

The idea should make you laugh. And then when you realize it's true that people believe and support it, it should make you cry. If it doesn't... personally I question your sanity. I don't deny your right to be insane if you wish... but know that I definitly question your sanity, and your reasoning ability.


Republicans are about big business. Is that good? Decide for yourself... I won't say its necessarily good. But remember that at least with big business you, as an individual, have the right to own one of those big businesses. And you know what they say about the devil you know...

(disclaimer: the above issues I spoke of, gay marriage, etc, I am not condemning or condoning in this post, simply saying that is part of the liberal platform. If you call me a hater or condemn me for hating gays, hating marijuana, loving fetuses, or anything else, you will be ridiculed endlessly for not being able to seperate fact from opinion, and moreover for being a moron. Thanks.)

[FordGT90Concept]

Just because your freedom's have not been violated does not mean they are not are not in jeopardy at any moment under the Patriot Act
I'm not trying to start an argument but they leeway to more governmental control has been extended. Arguably more 'detainments' have occurred under suspicion.
In a world where nothing is private. As for detainments, better safe than sorry. Note how there still hasn't been a successful bombing involving foreign nationals in the USA since the US PATRIOT Act went into effect. That was the objective of the act and it has succeeded (rare instance where government actually worked).

It still strikes me as odd how so many people hate it without just cause. The hate the idea of it, but who wasn't doing what the US PATRIOT Act allowed the government to do? Corporations trade your information like candy, cities have video cameras at virtually every intersection, and any given phone conversation could be recorded by the companies that process it. If there's anything we should have learned by now, it is that privacy no longer exists.

[Papahyooie]

I think Ford just falls on the realist side of the realist/idealist debate.

Is it bad that the patriot act affected privacy? Yeap.
Is it a step toward more controlling government that could result in a slippery slope? Of course.
Would an idealist libertarian hate it? Most definitely.

Will it ever affect me directly? (insert yourself here) Probably not.
Is it really anything that wasn't being done already? Not likely.
Is it anything more than a name for what we already knew was happening? Nope.

So, weigh for yourself whether you really care or not. I believe that yes, the patriot act is bad, and a betrayal to the ideals of what republicans are supposed to stand for. I support both sides of the argument. Ideally: patriot act is an affront to freedom. Realistically: who's gonna know, whos gonna care. At different times, ideals and realism both serve their purpose.

[Magibeg]

You've gotta be shitting me Mag... You just got to be shitting all of us.

Views expressed in the articles are not necessarily that of the poster :P

I just post things which i think would garner thought provoking conversation and try to look for interesting angles on things.

[jmcslob]

I honestly think Obama started several Great policies that will be a good benefit to the American people...Eventually

There is no doubt that just about every policy he has signed into law has been BS, this is true and we all know it.

But each one of them lays down a foundation in which something that benefits us can be worked out and tweaked.

And tbh I'm hoping for the Republicans to win the majority in Congress this November so we can really get some shit done.

As it stands now the Republicans refuse to do anything, which imo is whats wrong right now, but if they balance out power in the house or Senate then they will have to put forth a workable agenda.

I also believe once we have Political Balance we will also start moving forward in a positive fashion a lot like we did when the Republicans took over after Clintons first 2 years.

At this point the worse thing that can happen for us and Obama is for the Democrats to maintain majority.

Plus everyone acts like all this shit just happened overnight..It took the last 10 years to get us where we are and it's gonna take some time to get some and not all of it back..

People need to start venting there frustrations at what really caused these problems, Corporate America, and need to look towards solutions that will not only get our asses out of this but will also prevent it in the future..

And I think Obama is making an honest effort to do so but is being snubbed 100% by half of the Political system in this country...

So instead of being pissed at the man who is willing to try something to fix this shit why don't you try sharing some of that anger with the people that were elected to help fix this shit but completely refuse to acknowledge anything as a start and do nothing!!!

[FordGT90Concept]

I think Ford just falls on the realist side of the realist/idealist debate.
An excellent observation. Realist best describes my view of virtually everything.


As it stands now the Republicans refuse to do anything, which imo is whats wrong right now, but if they balance out power in the house or Senate then they will have to put forth a workable agenda.


I also believe once we have Political Balance we will also start moving forward in a positive fashion a lot like we did when the Republicans took over after Clintons first 2 years.

At this point the worse thing that can happen for us and Obama is for the Democrats to maintain majority.
They refuse to do anything either on morale and/or financial grounds (which is a just cause in its own right). The country is broke and Democrats want to spend, spend spend. Republicans are saying enough is enough. It's going to take at least 10 years to undo all the financial damage to the country and that is assuming the economy has a strong recovery. Recovery is in doubt. 10 years is opptimistic, not realistic. Being the realist, I side with Republicans. The spending must stop and any new spending must be offset by savings else where.


I agree that Democrats need to lose the super majority in the House and the majority in the Senate. Currently, the opposition doesn't have enough seats to shoot down ridiculous bills forcing compromise; hence, Congress's approval rating falls to record lows (11%).

[jmcslob]

@Ford
Basically I agree with what you are saying.

But I think that the people that caused the problems should pay for the people that did what they supposed to instead of getting rewarded for doing so..

[FordGT90Concept]

I think it is too late to hold those guilty accountable. The money has already been given to them so those corporations are avoiding bankruptcy.

I mean, look at GM and Chrysler: bankruptcy protection was probably the best thing that ever happened to them. They had to settle their issues with the unions and get rid of assets that weren't pulling their own weight. It made them leaner and meaner because of it so they have a fighting chance in the long term and ought to have learned what got them in that mess in the first place as well.

If I were a Congressman/Senator, I would have fought for a "no more bailouts" clause in the "financial reform" bill. Has it never dawned on them that maybe this recovery is shitty because the people that cause the problem are still players? Everyone else is just waiting for them to screw up again, causing a depression, and then get serious about recovering. In other words, as many economists say, it must get much worse before it will get better because the government failed to let thet markets react as was necessary.

Add to that the problem of debt here and abroad and I think we have a good idea why everyone is holding on to their money. Since we can't make those bailed out banks fail (can't fault a business for stupid government), the only thing we can focus on is debt and focus, we must. 41 cents of every dollar spent by the federal government is on interest and interest alone. If the dollar fails, the entire world could slump into a depression that makes the Great Depression look like happy hour.

[mlee49]

In a world where nothing is private. As for detainments, better safe than sorry. Note how there still hasn't been a successful bombing involving foreign nationals in the USA since the US PATRIOT Act went into effect. That was the objective of the act and it has succeeded (rare instance where government actually worked).

It still strikes me as odd how so many people hate it without just cause. The hate the idea of it, but who wasn't doing what the US PATRIOT Act allowed the government to do? Corporations trade your information like candy, cities have video cameras at virtually every intersection, and any given phone conversation could be recorded by the companies that process it. If there's anything we should have learned by now, it is that privacy no longer exists.


I understand your point, I understand both sides of the coin with the Patriot Act. I think it's more of an opportunity for both good(necessary questionings and detainments of real threats) and bad(false warrants, sense of entitlement, and acting on 'impulse' rather than real information).

I understand that The Patriot Act is necessary to fight a war against terror, conventional war tactics simply do not work. We can't blow up the entire Middle East because the majority of terrorists are there. War cannot be declared on a group of people(Al Quida); War can only be declared on a nation.


And your absolutely right about privacy. I remember hearing about London putting in cameras on the street corners and thinking it's "1984, were screwed". And now your on tape just by driving around the city, recorded nearly every conversation(email, text, or phone call), and your personal information has been passed around more than the local whore.

[FordGT90Concept]

This is going way off topic but I think it is an important discussion to have...

...acting on 'impulse' rather than real information...
That's exactly what is necessary, for example, to fix the massive illegal immigration in this nation. There are too many people hiding under the RADAR of the law so law enforcement needs the authority to explore leads--be it an odd phone conversation or being pulled over for having 10 more people in the vehicle than the vehicle is designed for.

An impulse must occur before it can be proven "real" or imaginary--that's part of investigating.

There was a prime example of that this last week where Secretary of Agriculture, Tom Vilsack, ordered the firing of a black women on racial grounds. He acted on the impulse without investigating the situation. As it turns out, the information was imaginary.

I think the problem is that the Supreme Court has interpretted the Constitution in ways that prevent investigations (especially non-disclosed investigations) from taking place without making a huge fiasco about it (specifically, warrants and the like from a judge). What's wrong with a little investigative digging? Previously, if an officer of the law wanted to do some investigating, they would have either had to do it on their own time or get approval; now (US PATRIOT Act and Arizona's Law) they can dig some without necessarily requiring approval.

Basically, what I'm getting at law enforcement must act in ways that are more process-oriented than results-oriented. You got to do everything by the book even if who you are trying to bring down does not. Law enforcement should only have to talk to a judge if they have found credible information that requires deeper investigation (pulling records, interrogating people, etc.).

It's the whole bugalar can have the car if he can get in, but 3 of the doors are locked, deal. Yeah, it kinda of sucks to not know if you are being monitored but if you weren't doing anything suspicious in the first place, you got nothing to worry about. That is probably where the problem lies with people that oppose legislation like the US PATRIOT Act--they want to know they are being monitored so they can sit up straight, suck in their belly, and act all proper. Just because the law ain't looking doesn't mean you shouldn't be on your best behavior.

Remember, the courts still serve the purpose of correcting abuses of power. If the US PATRIOT Act was used to violate one of your Constitutional rights (or simply law enforcement becoming a serious pain in the ass), you have grounds to retailiate through restraint orders, compensation, and the like.

[jmcslob]

^
So what your saying is cut out the cancer so the patient can live and do whatever is necessary to do so...

Well if your not I am...

We don't need broad spectrum decisions we need calculated precise actions that only do what is necessary.

[FordGT90Concept]

I wouldn't be opposed to that. I think the population would be much happier with the government if everything were passed on small bills that care of very specific issues rather than these thousand(s) page behemoths that no one person could name everything thats in them. If there was one thing to guarentee a government train wreck, I think that would be it. You know it's bad when the government needs a separate organization (CBO) to tell them how much it will cost.

[jmcslob]

If everything was broken we would far worse off than we are..
So why fix whats not broken..Right?

that's the problem I'm a havin right meow..

It's like everyone has an idea that dumps everything rather than just fixing the few loopholes that cause BS deals..

But Immma betting such things will only follow Term limits

[FordGT90Concept]

that's the problem I'm a havin right meow..
A cat invaded your brain. XD


As for the rest, I think you misunderestimate how deep the rabbit hole goes. You can find a very large percentage of the population that dislikes most of the programs the federal government has. This problem started back in 1792 with the Federalist Party (wanted a more powerful Federal Government). Wouldn't be great if you were pissed at your State or City rather than the Federal government? 1776-1791 were the golden years of America. By the mid-late 1800s, corporations start forming and by the 1900s, government was destroying some. In the 2000s, they play Jenga with economy culminating in government ownership of corporations. In the nation's brief 230 years of existance, it has got more wrong than right but skillfully hid it by changing the Supreme Court to enforce it's new (lack of a better word) view.

Come to think of it, I think the failure of our government is due to groupthink. The monarchies, like Great Britian (although not in practice, which is why it is degrading as well -- same goes for Spain) and the Netherlands, don't suffer from groupthink because an individual is calling the shots. Monarchies last for centuries--is it possible democracies last less than 500 years as Demonstrated by Rome and soon-to-be United States? Is it not a communist country (China) providing stability to these democracies (http://www.open-speech.com/en/threads/537187-China-bei-Rettungsaktionen-der-bankrotten-EU-Staaten-mit-am-Verhandlungstisch-in-Br%C3%BCssel-KOPP-Verlag)?

...

[Wile E]

Yes, Bush was that bad. He demolished so many American freedoms in the name of "Security" that it's not even close to funny.

Agreed. Bush and Obama are on equal grounds to me. Both are terrible.

I can't name one instance where my freedoms have been violated "in the name of security." Can you?

Patriot Act.

In a world where nothing is private. As for detainments, better safe than sorry. Note how there still hasn't been a successful bombing involving foreign nationals in the USA since the US PATRIOT Act went into effect. That was the objective of the act and it has succeeded (rare instance where government actually worked).

It still strikes me as odd how so many people hate it without just cause. The hate the idea of it, but who wasn't doing what the US PATRIOT Act allowed the government to do? Corporations trade your information like candy, cities have video cameras at virtually every intersection, and any given phone conversation could be recorded by the companies that process it. If there's anything we should have learned by now, it is that privacy no longer exists.
Giving up freedom in the name of security is not a good idea. Whether or not we have privacy has no bearing on the fact that the Act allows the elimination of due process. There is no excuse for that, EVER.

[FordGT90Concept]

USA PATRIOT Act doesn't infringe on due process. A court order is still needed to be "imprisoned or disseised of his freehold, or be exiled or deprived of his Privileges, Franchises, Life, Liberty or Property." The law is mostly related to cutting off funding of suspected terrorists, surveillance, international espinoge, and detaining/deporting immigrants that are suspected terrorists.

The only issue you have, from what I gather, is the claim by Russell Feingold that allows the "Attorney General to detain persons based on mere suspicion." There is little support to back it up.

[FordGT90Concept]

Kinda off topic but David Frum has a great idea: privatize the Tennessee Valley Authority (http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/07/26/frum.sell.assets/index.html?hpt=T2). It's worth a lot of money and the government could still tax its earnings making a lot of money for the federal government to pay down some of the debt. He also lists a lot of other assets the US government could sell off. I would only be opposed to selling the gold, which he suggests.

[jmcslob]

Agreed. Bush and Obama are on equal grounds to me. Both are terrible.

I'd like to argue that But I can't yet...

I do think Obama may yet pan out once there is more balance of power, But at this point i mostly agree with what you are saying

@Ford i'd rather the Govt not privatize more stuff..
trend is not looking good for that kind of sell off
Or at least sell it along with some standards and conditions

[Papahyooie]

Kinda off topic but David Frum has a great idea: privatize the Tennessee Valley Authority (http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/07/26/frum.sell.assets/index.html?hpt=T2). It's worth a lot of money and the government could still tax its earnings making a lot of money for the federal government to pay down some of the debt. He also lists a lot of other assets the US government could sell off. I would only be opposed to selling the gold, which he suggests.

Awesome idea IMO. But who would champion it? Anyone who did so, locally at least, would be crucified by those whos electric bill might go up by a few bucks. Both people and politicians (not that i necessarily mean to seperate the two :rolleyes:) have tunnel vision. People care more about the things that they SEE affecting them... they curse when they stub their toe, but scoff at the apocalypse looming over their head. Politicians similarly are only concerned with re-election... nevermind that the institution they are being elected to is in danger of collapse.

Bottom line, there's no reason why a government should be able to operate in a manner any different from any other form of civilization (ie a family.) Sometimes selling the family silver to pay the bills is necessary... it sucks, but that doesn't change the fact.

[FordGT90Concept]

i'd rather the Govt not privatize more stuff..
trend is not looking good for that kind of sell off
Or at least sell it along with some standards and conditions
The reason why the government is in the pathetic shape it is in is because it is too big. TVA, as a public works program, served its purpose. It is now more than sustainable enough to keep its head above water without public funding. It's win-win for everyone (except the people on TVA utlities getting ridiculously low rates--well below national average).


Awesome idea IMO. But who would champion it?
I hope the Congressional deficit committee but I think that is just wishful thinking.

[jmcslob]

The reason why the government is in the pathetic shape it is in is because it is too big. TVA, as a public works program, served its purpose. It is now more than sustainable enough to keep its head above water without public funding. It's win-win for everyone (except the people on TVA utlities getting ridiculously low rates--well below national average).



I hope the Congressional deficit committee but I think that is just wishful thinking.

If I had a rail line from here to a connection to go to somewhere like New York or San Fransisco I'd fucking use it.

If we had a High Speed Rail System I guarantee people would use it
and you why..

Cause at this point it would be cheaper and more comfortable than to drive or fly the distance.

Why we can't seem to do it in this mostly flat as fuck country is fucking beyond my comprehension.

I don't know why the Govt can't get it right...

Maybe it was from the Airlines and Automotive Industry that spent billions on lobbying against it making sure that a true Consumer driven High Speed Rail system couldn't connect in any way to make it practical.....

Nah...

Who would want a 15 hour New York to San Fransisco train ride for like $90 phhhh.
Over a $250 total cost Round trip for one with 1 bag 1 carry-on flight that would only take a few hours or just take the drive in the car...LuLzz not in America

So yeah maybe the Govt should let go and let it fail and not have a truly fuel efficient means of transportation



Oh and the people built that shit for the people so the people should get to enjoy that shit at low rates

[Papahyooie]

@jmcslobs last post:

eh? Where did the train rant come from??? Did I miss something?

[FordGT90Concept]

Why we can't seem to do it in this mostly flat as fuck country is fucking beyond my comprehension.
Never seen the Rockies, I take it?

Need I remind you about Amtrak. Very few routes it serves are profitable and it is running at a net loss (costs $2.6 billion per year of federal money). Even with inter-city traffic up due to fuel prices and the economy, the amount of people using it are still among the lowest in the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_usage_statistics_by_country#Passenger_km_per_ head_of_population).

In my opinion, Amtrak is like TVA: it should be privatized. If it fails in the private sector, it fails. If it succeeds in the private sector, it succeeds.


@Papahyooie: I concur.

[jmcslob]

@jmcslobs last post:

eh? Where did the train rant come from??? Did I miss something?
No, no you didn't, the TVA reminded me of AIM Track..... then //random rant//
Never seen the Rockies, I take it?

@Papahyooie: I concur. Go south, go along side, go through The Japanese figured how to do it in Earthquake prone, mountainous area..

Why can't we

[Papahyooie]

The nation is hurting enough as it is... and you want to build a nationwide train system? The jobs would be welcome I'm sure, but whos paying for it?

[jmcslob]

The nation is hurting enough as it is... and you want to build a nationwide train system? The jobs would be welcome I'm sure, but whos paying for it?

Done right, It will ..just like any other road project

[FordGT90Concept]

No, no you didn't, the TVA reminded me of AIM Track..... then //random rant//
Go south, go along side, go through The Japanese figured how to do it in Earthquake prone, mountainous area..

Why can't we
The Japanese don't have the freakin' Rockies.


I have spoke of a national Meglev system for some time (wrote about it back in 2008). The problem is, the government is broke. If we started a massive program like that, yes it would create jobs but they money they paid out to workers would be worth less than toilet paper. There's no money for a project that would cost well over $1 trillion just to connect the major cities--not to mention the massive electrical demands required to operate it.


Realize that in the 1950s when most of our current roads were built, most roads in America were dirt. Travel, at all, was problematical. Just to repair all the roads, bridges, dams, and other infrastructure that has been neglected would cost $2.2 trillion over 5 years (http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/) by itself. There was thread on this topic some time ago.

[jmcslob]

All we need is for the Pennsylvania D.O.T. to come out and show everyone how it's done..

We've got Technology we never had before and I'm sure China will pay for it so we can continue to depend on them for cheaply made cheaply priced electronic goods and useless plastic trinkets

[Papahyooie]

I'm sure China will pay for it so we can continue to depend on them for cheaply made cheaply priced electronic goods and useless plastic trinkets

And you WANT to keep fueling this??? :confused:

[FordGT90Concept]

And what if China has no more spending money either? Can anyone say global depression?

You know how most of the jobs such a program would create would most likely be filled by illegals anyway which ultimately means the end result would be simply digging our grave deeper.

If the federal government had no debt and money to spare, I'd be all for it; until then, a resounding no.


As far as China is concerned, what if it is discovered the Chinese government has been masking the true value of the currency causing inflation to skyrocket (basically meaning their currency is useless too)? Look at the chart here:
http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1280210066348&chddm=1745584&q=CURRENCY:CNYUSD&ntsp=0

Notice that suspicious flat line since 2008? When the US and EU markets in turmoil, how can it manage to stay flat? By comparison, here is the Japanese Yen to the US Dollar:
http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1280210225568&chddm=1745584&q=CURRENCY:JPYUSD&ntsp=0

Korean Won to the US Dollar:
http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1280210275215&chddm=1745584&q=CURRENCY:KRWUSD&ntsp=0

Great Britian Pound to the US Dollar:
http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1280210307439&chddm=1745584&q=CURRENCY:GBPUSD&ntsp=0

[Laurijan]

I am very lazy in following the news so I ask this question:
I heard the Obama would bring free heathcare for all - a good thing - at least all countries it is available in are never complaining - since if you want private heathcare you can still get it.
So why is everyone complaining here?

[jmcslob]

@ Papa LOL
Sure

Well it was done wrong and now were gonna get balance and do what we should have from the beginning

[Wile E]

All we need is for the Pennsylvania D.O.T. to come out and show everyone how it's done..

We've got Technology we never had before and I'm sure China will pay for it so we can continue to depend on them for cheaply made cheaply priced electronic goods and useless plastic trinkets

PennDOT? I hope to hell that was sarcasm.

[jmcslob]

PennDOT? I hope to hell that was sarcasm.

Dude PennDOT deals with more types of terrain than the rest of the country combined.

You may not really notice it But trust me Wile E PA does a great job on roads that go up, around, through, below, under and over....

Most other states may have 1 or 2 main roads like you are used to having all around you..

[Wile E]

No, PennDOT does not do a great job AT ALL. We have been voted as the worst roads in America numerous times, and are consistently ranked in the top 5. This is generally by polling truckers on the matter.

I live here and have been to many other states with rough terrain whose roads aren't half as bad. PA roads are shit, They use band aid measures for repair that generally does more harm in the long run than good. They use low quality materials in the initial paving stages, they use corrosive materials to combat snow and ice that only accelerates the issue further, and they are a very inefficient operation altogether. It is completely clogged with red tape.

What's truly sad is the amount of tax dollars they get, and we still get shit roads.

No, no, PennDOT is fucking terrible.

[FordGT90Concept]

Again, shut up and go West. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Even today, there are only a few routes over the Rockies. They were a formidable obstacle in the 1800s and they remain a formidable obstacle today.

And confirming that:
Overdrive magazine's 13th annual Best, Worst Roads survey result (http://www.allbusiness.com/transportation/road-transportation-trucking-trucking/6531780-1.html)

Worst Roads by state
1. Arkansas
2. Illinois
3. Pennsylvania
4. Louisiana
5. New York, Michigan (tie)

Worst Roads by segment
1. I-40 through Arkansas
2. I-94 in Chicago
3. I-10 through Louisiana
4. I-70 from Kansas City to St. Louis
5. I-30 from Little Rock to Texarkana, Ark.

Factors that make these roads the worst
1. Potholes
2. Patches
3. Cracks
4. Congestion & traffic
5. Constant construction

Best Roads by state
1. Florida
2. Tennessee
3. Texas and Georgia (tie)
4. Pennsylvania
5. Indiana

Best Roads by segment
1. I-75 through Florida
2. I-75 through Georgia
3. I-10 through Texas
4. I-40 from Memphis to Knoxville
5. I-39 from Bloomington to Rockford, IL

Most Improved by state
1. Pennsylvania
2. Louisiana
3. Texas
4. Illinois
5. Florida

Most Improved by segment
1. I-80 through Pennsylvania
2. I-20 through Louisiana
3. I-55 through Illinois
4. I-10 through Texas
5. I-81 through Pennsylvania
In 2000, Pennsylvania ranked 48th.

In 2008, Pew Research rated Pennsylvania infrastructure (includes more than just roads) at B- (http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/uploadedFiles/Infrastructure%20Performance.pdf), equal to the national average.


I am very lazy in following the news so I ask this question:
I heard the Obama would bring free heathcare for all - a good thing - at least all countries it is available in are never complaining - since if you want private heathcare you can still get it.
So why is everyone complaining here?
That issue was exhaustively discussed here:
http://www.generalnonsense.net/showthread.php?t=2408

"Free" healthcare isn't free. Your "free" system cuts many corners in order to reduce the price of your care as low as it can go. Such tactics include lengthy waiting lists, inadequate staff, inadequate beds, the latest treatments unavailable, the more expensive drugs unavailable, etc. In the USA, everything is available; the only question is if you can afford it.

[Wile E]

Again, shut up and go West. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Even today, there are only a few routes over the Rockies. They were a formidable obstacle in the 1800s and they remain a formidable obstacle today.

And confirming that:
Overdrive magazine's 13th annual Best, Worst Roads survey result (http://www.allbusiness.com/transportation/road-transportation-trucking-trucking/6531780-1.html)

Worst Roads by state
1. Arkansas
2. Illinois
3. Pennsylvania
4. Louisiana
5. New York, Michigan (tie)

Worst Roads by segment
1. I-40 through Arkansas
2. I-94 in Chicago
3. I-10 through Louisiana
4. I-70 from Kansas City to St. Louis
5. I-30 from Little Rock to Texarkana, Ark.

Factors that make these roads the worst
1. Potholes
2. Patches
3. Cracks
4. Congestion & traffic
5. Constant construction

Best Roads by state
1. Florida
2. Tennessee
3. Texas and Georgia (tie)
4. Pennsylvania
5. Indiana

Best Roads by segment
1. I-75 through Florida
2. I-75 through Georgia
3. I-10 through Texas
4. I-40 from Memphis to Knoxville
5. I-39 from Bloomington to Rockford, IL

Most Improved by state
1. Pennsylvania
2. Louisiana
3. Texas
4. Illinois
5. Florida

Most Improved by segment
1. I-80 through Pennsylvania
2. I-20 through Louisiana
3. I-55 through Illinois
4. I-10 through Texas
5. I-81 through Pennsylvania



That issue was exhaustively discussed here:
http://www.generalnonsense.net/showthread.php?t=2408

"Free" healthcare isn't free. Your "free" system cuts many corners in order to reduce the price of your care as low as it can go. Such tactics include lengthy waiting lists, inadequate staff, inadequate beds, the latest treatments unavailable, the more expensive drugs unavailable, etc. In the USA, everything is available; the only question is if you can afford it.

Aimed at me or JM?

[jmcslob]

LOL

Where's Ohio at on that list?...Just curious

[Papahyooie]

Being a dispatcher, and a son of a trucker (though not a resident of PA), I'll have to agree with WileE

And that's an old list, Ford. Arkansas is much lower now. Overdrive does that list every year.


I am very lazy in following the news so I ask this question:
I heard the Obama would bring free heathcare for all - a good thing - at least all countries it is available in are never complaining - since if you want private heathcare you can still get it.
So why is everyone complaining here?

There's an entire thread dedicated to it here. Read it.

[FordGT90Concept]

Aimed at me or JM?
jmcslob


LOL

Where's Ohio at on that list?...Just curious
Somewhere in between. In the Pew list, equal (B-) but of course including more than just roads.

[jmcslob]

Lol

[SK-1]

I can vouch for the Illinois placement. Our roads are like swiss cheese. You know its bad when you actually plan a rout with the least potholes.

I can always tel when I leave state... better roads. Last week we camped in Indiana. The road actually gets better at the state line. Like day and night. Its so flippin obvious. Plus a 70mph speed limit makes up for the goofy no right turn on red :confused:

[Wile E]

I can vouch for the Illinois placement. Our roads are like swiss cheese. You know its bad when you actually plan a rout with the least potholes.

I can always tel when I leave state... better roads. Last week we camped in Indiana. The road actually gets better at the state line. Like day and night. Its so flippin obvious. Plus a 70mph speed limit makes up for the goofy no right turn on red :confused:

It's like that with PA. If I'm blindfolded, I can tell you exactly when we cross the state line. I've done it more than once to prove a point coming from both Ohio and Maryland.

[FordGT90Concept]

And that's an old list, Ford. Arkansas is much lower now. Overdrive does that list every year.
That's the newest one I could find. Post a newer one if you got it.

Note that Overdrive is a survey of truckers which mostly stick to the interstate system. Pew/Infrastructure report card is probably a better source for overall conditions (including those roads off the beaten path).

[3991v]

No, PennDOT does not do a great job AT ALL. We have been voted as the worst roads in America numerous times, and are consistently ranked in the top 5. This is generally by polling truckers on the matter.

I live here and have been to many other states with rough terrain whose roads aren't half as bad. PA roads are shit, They use band aid measures for repair that generally does more harm in the long run than good. They use low quality materials in the initial paving stages, they use corrosive materials to combat snow and ice that only accelerates the issue further, and they are a very inefficient operation altogether. It is completely clogged with red tape.

What's truly sad is the amount of tax dollars they get, and we still get shit roads.

No, no, PennDOT is fucking terrible.
I agree 100% with this. Come up to Bradford if you want to experience truly shitty roads!

[SK-1]

This thread is now about roads....shitty roads at that.
http://img.techpowerup.org/100727/Capture644.jpg

[Wile E]

I agree 100% with this. Come up to Bradford if you want to experience truly shitty roads!

Pittsburgh area is no better. I think Butler County might still have a few OK roads tho.

[3991v]

Pittsburgh area is no better. I think Butler County might still have a few OK roads tho.

I've never been down there. The difference is day and night between PA roads, and NY roads. I was up in Rochester for the past weekend, and the roads were amazing. PA needs to step their game up (slap)

[FordGT90Concept]

Obama to appear on daytime talk show 'The View' (http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/07/26/obama.talk.show/index.html)

What. The. ****!?!

[Papahyooie]

That's the newest one I could find. Post a newer one if you got it.

Note that Overdrive is a survey of truckers which mostly stick to the interstate system. Pew/Infrastructure report card is probably a better source for overall conditions (including those roads off the beaten path).


Eh i used to idley read the magazine when i lived with my parents, because my father got it. I don't care enough to look one up. Its accurate enough, but arkansas has gotten alot better since that was published. It's like number 5 or something now lol.

[jmcslob]

Well regardless of upkeep PA built some of the toughest to build road system in the country and btw the reason most truckers don't like PA is because it's a lot of uphill downhill shit....even at 60,000lbs there's a lot of hills that will have you going 20mph up em

[yogurt_21]

This thread is now about roads....shitty roads at that.
http://img.techpowerup.org/100727/Capture644.jpg

? I think they forgot to change the date, must have been for jr prior to Obama being elected.

[Laurijan]

I am very lazy in following the news so I ask this question:
I heard the Obama would bring free heathcare for all - a good thing - at least all countries it is available in are never complaining - since if you want private heathcare you can still get it.
So why is everyone complaining here?

My question got lost in the thread and was left unanswered. Anyone?

[mlee49]

Its not free healthcare. He's restructuring how healthcare works.

People that can afford it, are now considered wealthy and can pay higher taxes.

Those that cannot afford it are given it free and a puppy.

[Laurijan]

Its not free healthcare. He's restructuring how healthcare works.

People that can afford it, are now considered wealthy and can pay higher taxes.

Those that cannot afford it are given it free and a puppy.

Thx for explaining - that really not the best solution

[SK-1]

? I think they forgot to change the date, must have been for jr prior to Obama being elected.

No yog, think about it.. 2004 he started in the US senate.(toast)


1. Community organizer... Not very effective. serious, look it up.
2. Illinois Senate... Got very few things done.
3. US Senator......... COMPLETE FAIL.. look it up peeps.
4. President of the Free World.... Fail in progress..

From an ineffective community organizer to POTUS in less than 5 fuckin years... NO WONDER!

[FordGT90Concept]

Well regardless of upkeep PA built some of the toughest to build road system in the country and btw the reason most truckers don't like PA is because it's a lot of uphill downhill shit....even at 60,000lbs there's a lot of hills that will have you going 20mph up em
Again, Rockies. AFAIK, Colorado has some of the most expensive roads in the USA including long tunnels (Eisenhower Tunnel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenhower_Tunnel)) and landscape/bridges (Glenwood Canyon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenwood_Canyon)). Not to mention the enormous upkeep it requires all year long due to traffic being one of the few routes over the Rockies.

When I was in Colorado many years ago, my E-150 couldn't even make it up the first mountain climb out of Denver on I-70 without a visit to Pep Boys. If you were remotely correct, Colorado would be rated as having the worst roads in the nation when in reality, Colorado often ranks among the best roads. Again, until you see the Rockies,
http://www.boredathenians.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/how-about-a-nice-cup-of-shut-the-fuck-up.jpg


? I think they forgot to change the date, must have been for jr prior to Obama being elected.
That's when he was first elected to the Senate (well, ran in 2004, took the chair on January 3, 2005.


My question got lost in the thread and was left unanswered. Anyone?
I quote myself...
That issue was exhaustively discussed here:
http://www.generalnonsense.net/showthread.php?t=2408

"Free" healthcare isn't free. Your "free" system cuts many corners in order to reduce the price of your care as low as it can go. Such tactics include lengthy waiting lists, inadequate staff, inadequate beds, the latest treatments unavailable, the more expensive drugs unavailable, etc. In the USA, everything is available; the only question is if you can afford it.


From an ineffective community organizer to POTUS in less than 5 fuckin years... NO WONDER!
Ain't hard to read the tea leaves, is it? (toast)

[Wile E]

Well regardless of upkeep PA built some of the toughest to build road system in the country and btw the reason most truckers don't like PA is because it's a lot of uphill downhill shit....even at 60,000lbs there's a lot of hills that will have you going 20mph up em

No, it's because the roads are more pockmarked than a pubescent boy's face with an acne problem.

Seriously, you obviously don't know shit about our roads. My claim that you can tell when you exit or enter PA with a blindfold on is not an exaggeration AT ALL. It's the honest to God truth.

Just let this one go, you are wrong.

[yogurt_21]

Personally i'm surprised AZ isn't up there in the top 5, must be Flagstaff and Tucson draggign us down. All in all I think AZDOT does a great job, our roads are smooth, they put pretties on the sides of them (designs in rocks, colored and esigned concrete, flowers, trees well maintained). They also seem to do alot of widening which for me the best type of road contrusction as they only have to reduce it by a lane or 2, instead of the california dot where they take a 7 lane road and restrict it down to a lane while they work on a sign lol.


Drove through PA 6 months after 9/11 (did a whole trip spanning from new york to virginia, Philidelphia was our entry/exit by plane)

have to say they weren't the greatest, low amount of lanes per capita and bumpy. Not to mention the 3 foot exits (someone in PA must be conspiring with someone in TX)

AZ they give us a half mile including the dotted hwy stretch for entry/exit. We call it a merging lane, I know it must be a foreign concept to the rest of the states lol.

All in all I think the interstate system is due for an overhaul. Trouble is that most of them require closing to do it. So that negatively impacts interstate commerce. Plus the ridiculous cost, but in the war on costs the interstates actually serve the public unlike the damn bank bailouts.

[Deusxmachina]

Yes, Bush was that bad. He demolished so many American freedoms in the name of "Security" that it's not even close to funny.

Even worse is Owebama and Dems saying they will change those things but then do not.

Even worse is the Owebama administration putting United States citizens on assassination lists without Due Process.

[SK-1]

Just the way Mr. O would have it! Summer Of Recovery ROFLOL!
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2010/08/05/food_stamp_use_hit_record_408m_in_may/

[momentomoir]

i cant even get food stamps it pisses me off too many *insert you know what here* have them
and yet they drive around with new challenger with 24inch rims and i know for a fact bc i see alot of them whip out there lonestar card

[SK-1]

i cant even get food stamps it pisses me off too many *http://img.techpowerup.org/100805/Capture668.jpg* have them
and yet they drive around with new challenger with 24inch rims and i know for a fact bc i see alot of them whip out there lonestar card

:) I think I know what you mean.

[DannibusX]

I was pretty much homeless when I was 19-22, and by pretty much I mean I got to sleep on a lot of peoples couches. Trying to get food stamps and some aid to get myself on my feet was like pulling teeth. I didn't meet the criteria of a lot of things. I was (and currently still am) white, male, single with no children.

I paid and still pay taxes for all these social benefits but do not qualify for most of them.

I starved a lot.

[momentomoir]

i am homeless basically we have 1.5 and if icant speak to the gm tomorrow i have no way of eating im trying for the 4th time to get food stamps

[FordGT90Concept]

Just got done watching last weeks Meet the Press and damn that was depressing. Greenspan said that he has never seen Washington attack Wall Street this bad in the last 70 years.

The result is Wall Street wants to do absolutely nothing. Fixing the economy could be as simple as the Obama Administation denouncing attacking Wall Street so Wall Street (small businesses and corporations alike) can get back to business. Instead, Obama is traveling to Chrysler plants and proclaiming they wouldn't have a job unless he bailed them out. Obama is trying to make people worship/recognize what he has done when most people were opposed to what he did in the first place and still are very much opposed. Obama is acting like he's still running for office and it's pissing the majority of people off. Basically, unless the White House changes its trajectory soon, the next 2.25 years are going to suck. Republicans will take over the House and Senate but everything they do will be vetoed by Obama while Obama continues cheerleading himself.

Ben Berdenke said "the future is unusually uncertain" and Greenspan's thought very much reflect the same thing. Wall Street may have started this problem but Washington is not letting it go away. Washington's motives, therefore, are in contention with that of the people. Maybe Washington doesn't realize they're doing this but they better changing their tone soon or everyone will suffer.

[SK-1]

O God, now I'm really depressed. If the Republicans win mid-rerms.. maybe they will launch multiple different investigations against the Obama administration to try to find something to impeach him on.

thats our only hope. sad face

[jmcslob]

LOL
No They will be forced to DO something or Obama wins in 12
If they do work with him Obama likely wins in 12

Get it....

[FordGT90Concept]

Everyone hates Congress, that is nothing new. If things don't change, even if Republicans win majorities in both houses, Obama will continue to receive the blame just as Bush received the blame for all the fuckups House Democrats were responsible for 2006-2008 (like not watching after the SEC leading the fiscal meltdown--looking at you, Barney Franks).

Put bluntly, if things don't start looking better soon (as in, businesses start getting optimistic about the future), there's no way Obama will get reelected in 2012. He will basically go down in history as Hoover 2.0.

[jmcslob]

Everyone hates Congress, that is nothing new. If things don't change, even if Republicans win majorities in both houses, Obama will continue to receive the blame just as Bush received the blame for all the fuckups House Democrats were responsible for 2006-2008 (like not watching after the SEC leading the fiscal meltdown--looking at you, Barney Franks).

Put bluntly, if things don't start looking better soon (as in, businesses start getting optimistic about the future), there's no way Obama will get reelected in 2012. He will basically go down in history as Hoover 2.0.

I see what your saying but I bet when the Rep do take over one or the other but not both They will either have to start working things over or Shit will simply start falling on them..and Obama will win somehow But it's oK since shits not gonna really get better until 2017 anyway and the Rep will have a president in 16 cause we'll want the goods to keep rolling...LOL

[FordGT90Concept]

2016 is too distant to make any predictions. The outcome of 2012 completely depends on the economy.

[Deusxmachina]

Just got done watching last weeks Meet the Press and damn that was depressing. Greenspan said that he has never seen Washington attack Wall Street this bad in the last 70 years.

The result is Wall Street wants to do absolutely nothing. Fixing the economy could be as simple as the Obama Administation denouncing attacking Wall Street so Wall Street (small businesses and corporations alike) can get back to business. Instead, Obama is traveling to Chrysler plants and proclaiming they wouldn't have a job unless he bailed them out. Obama is trying to make people worship/recognize what he has done when most people were opposed to what he did in the first place and still are very much opposed.

Washington may verbally attack Wall Street, but I'd have to question how they're really attacking them. Even when the citizens basically own a company due to a huge bailout, all the fuck-ups still got their bonuses and didn't get fired, the new "financial reform" is meh, etc. And now Goldman Sachs might just spin off its trading desk as a "private entity" of some kind to get less heat. Different name, same bs.

And then we get things like companies bribing their way out of taking bribes. Amusingly, the GS/SEC deal ended that investigation but then the deal started getting investigated. And now, thanks to government and a non-free market, "too big to fail" are even bigger, and they can afford to "not do anything" if they want.

Anyway, if the government is truly being so mean and nasty to Wall Street, they'll have to step their game up before I believe it. Because it just seems like a lot of jibber-jabber. One could argue the looming uncertainty of ObamaCare and higher taxes is an attack on Wall Street, but I think of those as more being attacks on everyone.

I saw the Owebama Ford plant speech. He didn't come right out and say it, but I did make the comment to someone during it that, "Owebama just took credit for Ford being good."

[FordGT90Concept]

You are right: they are saying one thing and doing something else; however, Wall Street is much bigger than the facets government has gone out of their way to touch. The facets government touched are happy as can be because they are immune from basically everything. The thing is, they comprise of what, maybe 2% of the economy? The other 98% are the ones that are waiting for a sign, a positive sign. A sign that it is safe to conduct business. Ya know, the 98% that, if they fuck up, they disappear forever. They won't leave their mouse hole until they know it is safe to come out. As such, they listen to the rhetoric coming out of Washington and obviously decide to not take risks (expanding, hiring, be industrious, etc.). Washington wants to raise taxes, Washington wants new regulations, Washington wants to bail out some companies and leave others to rot, Washington is devaluing the dollar, etc. That's all bad for business.

[jmcslob]

I think we need standards...But I think we need FLAT standards that everybody has to abide by...

We need standards for Energy and Protection and Education...

I'm just about everyone can agree with that...

But what we got is all fucked up and twisted......


We need to go back to the Basics and Let the courts decide everything else on a case by case basis.....

I hope yall know what I mean

[FordGT90Concept]

Boehner made an excellent point on Meet the Press today: we don't need more regulations, we need enforcement of existing regulations.

What do you mean by "standards?"


I can agree with minimizing regulations and letting the courts decide on a case by case basis. Laws > Regulations.


Obama's approval rating falls to 41% approved.

[jmcslob]

Just what you said..

Look at the Regs, minimize them..Then enforce Them..
Let the courts Decide anything in between
Standards...

[SK-1]

Makes no difference. Its ALL BUSHES FAULT!
l7QH6_fzw5E
CNN FAGS FTW!

[Wile E]

Can I get a summary please? lol

[jmcslob]

Bush was a Douche bag that put us in a shitty place...
Then along comes Obama with promise of change but Keeps on with the same Bullshit..
Corporate America got the money they never earned in bailouts while the rest of us suffer...

At this rate generations of Americans will be paying for the BS the rich are getting away with..

Even though Obama says he is doing right for the little guy all of his policies line the pockets of the rich at our childrens expense

Regulations are getting out of control even for my Liberal Tastes....
We are hoping for Republicans to gain control in the House or Senate to help balance shit out a little...

[Wile E]

I meant of the video that SK-1 posted, but OK. lol.

[FordGT90Concept]

And because nothing has been fixed, housing sales took another dive:

Home sales fall 27.2 percent (http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/24/real_estate/existing_home_sales/index.htm?hpt=T2)

This is FAR from over. I think I can say with 92% certainty that Obama will go down in history as Herbert Hoover 2.0.

[SK-1]

And because nothing has been fixed, housing sales took another dive:

Home sales fall 27.2 percent (http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/24/real_estate/existing_home_sales/index.htm?hpt=T2)

This is FAR from over. I think I can say with 92% certainty that Obama will go down in history as Herbert Hoover 2.0.

The Largest Monthly Home Sales Drop Since The Johnson Administration.

Hope-N-Change!! (poop)

[WhiteLotus]

The Largest Monthly Home Sales Drop Since The Johnson Administration.

Hope-N-Change!! (poop)

Wait is this house price, or house sales?

[FordGT90Concept]

Sales. Pretty sure prices are down too.

[WhiteLotus]

Well you could spin that as everybody has found there dream home. Not very likely though. House prices are looking like they might fall, which in my opinion is a good thing. Get people moving out of home with their parents and into a house of their own.

[FordGT90Concept]

It's supply and demand. When demand is down and supply is up, prices go down. The main reason cited for the big drop was the end of $8,000 tax credits on homes. The drop might be inflated because of that. The question is what happens next month.

[Deusxmachina]

The question is what happens next month.

Maybe some REAL change and REAL transparency without bs "stimulus" and artificially keeping housing prices up. Time for some ranting:

ILS-eO_HCvM

fQQfzXQ6UjA&fe

t3leTqIX1SQ&

[FordGT90Concept]

Exactly, that's why I said we have to wait another month before we know how much of this drop was a government cover up.

[jmcslob]

Ya know I do agree with that last Video...
But uhm the simple truth is For every one person that was that irresponsible about borrowing for a home their were likely 92 other people that got foreclosed on that were responsible But lost all of their saving in the Big Bank schemes..

What the man says is true..But it's such a small side of the issue at Hand..Sure it makes a good sound bite But if it were that simple it would've been done already..

I don't like what he is doing here...But what he wants to do is mostly right..

[SK-1]

http://www.breitbart.tv/cnn-host-calls-obama-cotton-picking-president/