TIME: The Secret world of the American Milita( i read it at work)

[pepsi71ocean]

While at work last night i ran into an interesting TIME managzine and the front cover really got me

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/2010/1101101011_400.jpg

Article
Time Article (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2022516,00.html)


Now, for all of those who think that the US military can walk all over the average american rifleman ide beg to differ.

I am a gun owener, but i am also a hunter, i hunt with my Garand's and my M-14, but also know how to hunt, and in my view i know the Forrest where i live better then anyone else, and i feel that (in my thought) that the Army would be at a disadvantage being that they don't know the terrain like we do, but if this magazine shows anything it shows that if a rebellion or the a revolution started, the government would have issues stopping this.





Plus other thing to read are the part about the neo-nazi who built a dirty bomb, to kill Obama.


here is a link to the photo essay

Here are a few photos from the essay.

Photo Essay:Time (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,2022468,00.html)

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2010/militia/militia_01.jpg

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2010/militia/militia_11.jpg

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2010/militia/militia_09.jpg



So being the though that these are in ever state in the union, it makes for a war if something was to happen, this is why unlike the sandbox i feel that if war came home it would be a serious issue, because i feel that the average hunter would join, all it takes is to be a hunter, if you can hunt an animal you can hunt a human?

[Deusxmachina]

So being the though that these are in ever state in the union, it makes for a war if something was to happen, this is why unlike the sandbox i feel that if war came home it would be a serious issue, because i feel that the average hunter would join, all it takes is to be a hunter, if you can hunt an animal you can hunt a human?

Well, some people have said the government went to small-but-more bullets (.223) with the theory that most soldiers will rather "shoot in an enemy's general direction" than to take a better aim and Know they killed them. I don't know if that is more than a theory or not.

Regardless, if the government decides to do battle on a large scale with American citizens, I think it will get more than expected. And not just from civilians, but from enlisted people who may not agree with the government's orders. Let's also remember the National Guard is state-based, not federal.

An amusing thing to me is how so often the "extreme militia" people will be painted as just that, sort of like painting concealed-carry people as gun nuts ready to shoot anything or whatever, when I'd feel a whole lot safer being around people like that than I would what passes for democracy these days.

It's not a fun thing to think about, but last year's National I.D. Card plan ruffled a lot of feathers and had, what, 20 or so states getting serious about what might happen.

In part, that's good. Government Should fear The People. Not the other way around.

As far as some other country invading the U.S., good luck with that. They sure wouldn't win in a straight-up fight using bullets, that's for sure. The civilians of Tennessee alone could probably repel most other countries' armies. (ch)

[entropy13]

Well this is interesting. Over here we have CAFGUs, or Citizen Armed Force Geographical Units, which are based per province. Weapons are supplied by the government though, and serve mainly as an auxiliary force for the military, guides and garrison troops. All provinces have CAFGUs but not all of them have a lot, and not all are adequately equipped. The "capable of fighting" CAFGUs are mostly the ones in Mindanao, especially when the Muslim insurgency was still quite hot, although most are well-equipped enough in the event that the communists try doing something drastic.

It's also interesting that over there the government is perceived as an enemy. In our case the bad parts of government IS NOT an enemy for now because of an active communist insurgency and a currently passive Muslim one.

[Steevo]

Snipers brag about shooting a mile. I shoot 400 yards with a 30.06 and after three rounds can shoot within a couple inches. I know some people who can shoot almost anything, anywhere, anytime and they are way better than me. I had my ass handed to me by a friends daughter with handguns. She can shoot a 4" pattern at 100 feet without trying. About 80% of the Caucasian population here have guns, use guns, or are willing to use.

I canceled my Time subscription as the idea of paying for a magazine full of someone else s spin, ads, and photoshopped/circumstantial BS was too much for me.

[jmcslob]

I shoot for fun...
I like gun ranges...
I'm quite good and understand how to shoot at long range..moving targets too.

I'd prefer to not shoot another Human...But if the shit hit the fan I'm satisfied with my shooting abilities..

I'm ok with hand guns..I'd say fairly accurate up to 25 yards...

I don't fear my Govt...I think it's full of idiots But I don't fear em.

@Steevo I prefer a .762
I mostly hoot with a LR .22
But the .762 is great for distance

[Deusxmachina]

As far as some other country invading the U.S., good luck with that. They sure wouldn't win in a straight-up fight using bullets, that's for sure. The civilians of Tennessee alone could probably repel most other countries' armies. (ch)

About 80% of the Caucasian population here have guns, use guns, or are willing to use.

Come to think of it, if push came to shove, be it a foreign enemy or domestic, the U.S. probably has enough rappers and football players to take care of the problem.

I've read accuracy improves by 30% when holding the gun sideways.

[pepsi71ocean]

ive shot humans before, the though of killing another person is not strange to my mind.

If push came to shove and the governemnt came after the people, and they came here i know for sure that we have 1,500 active gun owening residents who do not like the current government, and especially the current commy president.


i agree some of the southern states would easily suceed rather then have their 2a rights taken away.

[Steevo]

ive shot humans before, the though of killing another person is not strange to my mind.

If push came to shove and the governemnt came after the people, and they came here i know for sure that we have 1,500 active gun owening residents who do not like the current government, and especially the current commy president.


i agree some of the southern states would easily suceed rather then have their 2a rights taken away.

Didn't they try that before? And fail?


Commy president. You really mean he isn't part of "the good ole boys club".(slap)

[jmcslob]

LuLzzz.

[_JP_]

Excuse me for hijacking this, since what I'm about to ask is off-topic on objective, but on-topic regarding the theme.
How hard is it for you to get a gun?, because I can't get one.

2a is the U.S. 2nd amendment, right?

[CyberDruid]

Getting a gun in the US is not hard. You can buy them at a yard sale, from an individual (private sale again) or at a Gun show. If you want to sign paperwork and let the Feds know you own one go to a store and fill out the papers and wait a week and there you go.

[pepsi71ocean]

Excuse me for hijacking this, since what I'm about to ask is off-topic on objective, but on-topic regarding the theme.
How hard is it for you to get a gun?, because I can't get one.

2a is the U.S. 2nd amendment, right?

most if not all gun sales need to have a NCIS background check first, but being that i am from jersey my rules apply to MA, NJ, IL and California.

You first need a Firearms ID card, to get that you need a thorough background check by the state polize, mental check, etic then if your aproved you can buy all of the shotguns and rifles you want.

Handguns, need a handgun permit, requires more background check, even more through, and needs to be done EVERY time before you buy a hand gun.


In NJ, you need a clean record, clean bill of health, and you need to be god to your neighbors because the polize will randomly talk to them! Oh and expect your FID to take anywhere from 30 days to 120, mine took 92 days, handgun permit was almost 6 months. (they don't like to hand them out.

Class 3 /NFA weapons require an assault weapons or a MG permit, and well its not worth writing it out because NJ has not handed one of those out since 1994(or is it 1993 idr).

Basically you need to be able to qualify for a handgun permit, and then go before a court judge of Nj and prove that by having one of these licenses you are benefiting society, thus while thousands of permits have been applied for they are all denied.

on the AWB in new jersey, M1 Carbine types, M14's M1A'a(pre-ban), BM-59 models, AK types, M-16 types, Ar-15 types (pre-ban), the list goes on and on.......


other states like PA or FL its as easy as showing your drivers license, and getting a NCIS check, if you pass your good to go.


if you can't get a gun and fail the NCIs check, then you have been convicted of a crime one in nature that prevents you from getting them, now if you did NOT commit any crimes, you can write to DHS or the NCIS and ask why you were denied.

[pepsi71ocean]

Didn't they try that before? And fail?


Commy president. You really mean he isn't part of "the good ole boys club".(slap)

unlike before we all have better weapons, and i doubt that the people from the Union would support a Draft to fight our countrymen, as such a war would be so wide spead, who would know where the sucession starts.


i can tell you that VT, ME, OR, would be the only norther states that would suceed without any doubt, then you have the southern gang, GA, VA, TN, WV, NC, Sc, FL, LA, TX,

But if Alaska and Az also suceeded, we would be one power country, because Alaska's oil wealth alone could support the new CSA!

MaY the south rise again!

[_JP_]

Seems easier, I really need a very good reason to be eligible to carry a gun. Either I'm a V.I.P. (Wealthy or because I'm needed alive, e.g. jury duty), Police, Armed Forces (but when as a civilian I can only carry a handgun) or a hunter. This last one requires me to be registered, as all the others, but I'm only allowed to have hunting rifles (double barrel) or a shotgun. I don't how many guns hunters are allowed to have, but I guess more than two at least.

[Solaris17]

leave it to ohio to have the crazies ready. though honestly if push came to shove and things got real FN-FAL and game time. see you boys on the flip side.

[Polaris573]

People get so excited about armed rebellion to solve the country's problems. If only you would get as excited about non-violent ways of resolving issues we could actually get shit done. Dumbasses. I hope the "south never fucking rises again" and Texas seceding would not be good for anyone. War is not glorious and a civil war is even less so. You will not enjoy it and you will not fucking have fun. Civil war is not your only fucking choice for getting what you want done. Get your heads out of your collective asses and spend your time thinking about how to fix the system rather than dismantle it.

[Deusxmachina]

Excuse me for hijacking this, since what I'm about to ask is off-topic on objective, but on-topic regarding the theme.
How hard is it for you to get a gun?, because I can't get one.


I can walk into a store, point at the rifle I want, the clerk will call in a background check on me to make sure I'm not a felon or a liberal :D, I pay them for it, and then I walk out the door with my new gun. Elapsed time: 15 minutes.

That includes (semi-auto) AK47s and similar "scary" guns.

If you can have a shotgun as a hunter, what are the laws for transporting a shotgun? If you can have a shotgun and don't need to transport it via special means, I'd consider just walking around with it over my shoulder for spite.

[jmcslob]

Last time I bought a gun it was as simple as showing my ID..and then they did a background check which took 3 minutes
They said I couldn't buy ammo at the same time so they did a separate transaction..LOL

Now if I want to get a Concealed weapons permit I have to jump through hoops, Stand on my head for 5 minutes, Do a split and pass a background check and take a weapons handling class.

[pepsi71ocean]

Seems easier, I really need a very good reason to be eligible to carry a gun. Either I'm a V.I.P. (Wealthy or because I'm needed alive, e.g. jury duty), Police, Armed Forces (but when as a civilian I can only carry a handgun) or a hunter. This last one requires me to be registered, as all the others, but I'm only allowed to have hunting rifles (double barrel) or a shotgun. I don't how many guns hunters are allowed to have, but I guess more than two at least.

an what state do you live in?


Relax guys i was just being Rhetorical about the south rising again.

I think that the only way this country would effectively plunge into civil war is if the presidente banned all gun's via the martial law aspec, in which case many of the southern states would call for cession

[jmcslob]

Southern states?
Ever hear of the Michigan Militia LOL
You don't think those guys would get just as pissed

Hell I'd be pissed...Ain't nobody taking ma Fuckin Toys!

[entropy13]

If the current US president is really a "commy" he'd just nuke you anyway, or before that kill your children and wives first ala Stalin, or burn your houses and cities first ala Cambodia and make you work on communes.

[CyberDruid]

Pepsi I have bought several guns without any ID or NCIS check. Private sales are perfectly legal and require none of that silly horseshit. I have several weapons that have never been registered with the feds. They are all older than these stupid laws.

[Deusxmachina]

If the current US president is really a "commy" he'd just nuke you anyway, or before that kill your children and wives first ala Stalin, or burn your houses and cities first ala Cambodia and make you work on communes.

The current President already kills U.S. citizens without Due Process and ignores other U.S. law. The rest happening wouldn't surprise me much.

[entropy13]

The current President already kills U.S. citizens without Due Process and ignores other U.S. law. The rest happening wouldn't surprise me much.

The fact that you know of it makes him "non-communist" already. In the USSR, if you KNEW someone was killed and you weren't part of the group that killed that someone, you would be dead too. Families in Cambodia were simply told that their relatives were "transferred" to another commune, but they were actually killed.

[Deusxmachina]

The fact that you know of it makes him "non-communist" already. In the USSR, if you KNEW someone was killed and you weren't part of the group that killed that someone, you would be dead too. Families in Cambodia were simply told that their relatives were "transferred" to another commune, but they were actually killed.

I never knew that was the definition of a communist leader. Alrighty.

[pepsi71ocean]

If the current US president is really a "commy" he'd just nuke you anyway, or before that kill your children and wives first ala Stalin, or burn your houses and cities first ala Cambodia and make you work on communes.

The type of Marxis socalism i see about him, and what i have noticed is a trend towards big government, and a government that controls everything.

Hear me out on my speech.

"A world Government?"

The government controls health care, the auto industry the banking industry, he has through i think subterfuge has created several natural disasters, such as the BP oil spill, which created a ban on offshore oil drilling, which then resulted in oil prices rising.

Now he has also monetized about 2 trillion in debt this year so the printing of trillions of dollars added in with the drilling moratorium has started to creep prices up, as diesel is hitting 3 bucks a gallon, i would rather it be back at 2.30 like it was last December.

But as he borrows more money from other countries, and prints more and more money, eventually we will have so much money out there that our currency will become unstable, as it becomes unstable, other nation will switch off of the dollar, which will wreak havoc on our economy.

"Which leads to the burning of your housing"

The dollar is weakening as Unemployment skyrockets, our banks are failing, people are now jobless. but that is ok well double the US nation Debt!

As the nation debt grows ever increasingly, the government will just keep putting things off into the future, so it becomes SEP (Someone elses problem), but as i have noticed alot of guy's follow this at work, and well the back stock is still there, but durning the holidays it get worse.

Eventually we become so back logged, that we are 3 or 4 days behind on our back stock, stuff just sits everywhere, unaccounted for until someone (like my self) comes in and stays till 10am and does as much as i can.

Now to convert this to the government.

As our government increases it's debt eventually we will not be able to pay down the interest (2012) on our payments, then assuming the economy is growing we may be able to make just the principal, but with a failing economy we can't do either, so then we borrow some more, and say its (SEP), but who's problem is it the next generation.

But as people are now jobless(because of the government take overs), now they can't afford to pay their mortgages, and so they loose their houses, as people loose their houses the banks can't afford to have them these "bad" mortgages.


SO in essence your house is being burned, your being moved into government housing,

"Murder"

Now that people are unemployed their fringe benefits are drying up, oh wait you don't have a job, sorry no health care for you, AH government health care, government heath care means the government decides who lives and dies, which gets back to what your saying about murder, its not systematic, not a scorched earth policy, but its all part of the plan.


Now your probably saying, "yea this is such republic rhetoric. But im a liberal, with conservative beliefs, and fiscal policies.

But i see issues with government health care, waiting lines, time limits, i mean where is the money coming to pay for all of this.


This is why i think this is all a set up, i mean come one al the stuff Obama talked about is called trickle up poverty. By having structuring unemployment to 99 weeks he is creating more of a lower class.

"The Communes"

These lower classes will work the communes of the system, the low paying jobs that feed the rich,


It seems that the middle class is being split, the upper middle class is becoming richer, and the lower middle class is moving towards poverty. But there is plenty of the low paying jobs to support the lower class.

"The Rich"

So the rich will be the elitist, the super wealthy, those who have the power, why because its more of a world government.



i think by destroying our country it will allow other nations to come in and take it over, by giving the illegals rights, by destroying our countries military prowless, removing our Space program, opening our border, raising taxes all over,

it will creat an opening for revolution a socalist one, one this time funded by the other government as they come in and take back what we owe them,


After all no country has the budget and spending we do, and no country has ever come back from the brink of eternal destruction lime we are facing.


Outside of a massive war, which would drive our economy, in a total war, i cannot fathom any way we could raise the money, to fix this issue.

[pepsi71ocean]

The current President already kills U.S. citizens without Due Process and ignores other U.S. law. The rest happening wouldn't surprise me much.

What are you talking about, i don't know that i just know he is a Marxist, he was raised that way.

[_JP_]

If you can have a shotgun as a hunter, what are the laws for transporting a shotgun? If you can have a shotgun and don't need to transport it via special means, I'd consider just walking around with it over my shoulder for spite.
As a hunter the shotgun can never be loaded before entering a hunting area, it is illegal to carry a loaded shotgun with a hunting license outside of hunting zones. They way it is kept at home is at the responsibility of the owner, preferably empty, but there's the occasional son of the hunter that finds the loaded rifle and shoots himself/somebody else accidentally.
Armed forces can carry their pistols loaded, though. Not sure about the V.I.P.s...
an what state do you live in?
Portugal, United States of Europe

[pepsi71ocean]

As a hunter the shotgun can never be loaded before entering a hunting area, it is illegal to carry a loaded shotgun with a hunting license outside of hunting zones. They way it is kept at home is at the responsibility of the owner, preferably empty, but there's the occasional son of the hunter that finds the loaded rifle and shoots himself/somebody else accidentally.
Armed forces can carry their pistols loaded, though. Not sure about the V.I.P.s...

Dam, even American soldier are not allowed to carry ammunition, but they can carry their gun's home!

[DrPepper]

People get so excited about armed rebellion to solve the country's problems. If only you would get as excited about non-violent ways of resolving issues we could actually get shit done. Dumbasses. I hope the "south never fucking rises again" and Texas seceding would not be good for anyone. War is not glorious and a civil war is even less so. You will not enjoy it and you will not fucking have fun. Civil war is not your only fucking choice for getting what you want done. Get your heads out of your collective asses and spend your time thinking about how to fix the system rather than dismantle it.

I love how everyone ignored this absolute heap of common sense.

[MT Alex]

Best to just ignore this whole thread, just like I'll ignore the lump of shit that Time wrote. Just look at past people they have chosen for Man of the Year. That should discredit them right there.

The whole article is nothing more than a prop piece to try and convince urban jackasses that we need continuity of government and homeland (read fatherland) security to increase it's spying on people. Obama needs some type of Oklahoma City event to solidify his power base and agenda, just like W needed the Middle East. If there isn't a boogy man, better invent one.

Polaris is 100% right. Nothing neat about war, civil war especially. I'd much prefer it if the less individualistic people who want to be watched and taken care of from cradle to grave simply move to England:D

BIG Edit:
Wednesday, July 14, 2010
Former Clinton Official: Obama Needs New 9/11 To Restore ConfidenceFrom Financial Times

“The bottom line here is that Americans don’t believe in President Obama’s leadership,” says Rob Shapiro, another former Clinton official and a supporter of Mr Obama. “He has to find some way between now and November of demonstrating that he is a leader who can command confidence and, short of a 9/11 event or an Oklahoma City bombing, I can’t think of how he could do that.”

[Deusxmachina]

I love how everyone ignored this absolute heap of common sense.

I love how some people jump to conclusions.

Pepsi already commented on it.

[_JP_]

Dam, even American soldier are not allowed to carry ammunition, but they can carry their gun's home!
Forgot to mention that they MUST keep them concealed and/or holstered at all times, unless there's a (real) need to draw the weapon.

[DrPepper]

I love how some people jump to conclusions.

Pepsi already commented on it.

Where ? If it was that super big post that well got looked over quickly. (because I'm lazy)

[Magibeg]

This whole thread is hilarious. In this modern age whichever side of the civil war most of the military joins will be the winner.

A civilian militia can't do much to a modern military. You going to shoot your guns into the air at supersonic jets?

Even so, Polaris posted the real gem in this thread.

[CyberDruid]

I built a potato cannon.

[DrPepper]

I built a potato cannon.

The Eugene Stoner equivelant of the potato cannon.

[CyberDruid]

Part cannon part bong

[Deusxmachina]

Where ? If it was that super big post that well got looked over quickly. (because I'm lazy)

Post #19.

I don't know what the threadcrapping comments are for since there's really only been maybe two posts that have "glamorized" the thought of civil war.

[CyberDruid]

No thread crap here I'm ready. Bring it on mother fuckers. I keep hoping some neo nazi white boy militia storms my compound so I can expend some of the ammo I'm stockpiling. Please burn a cross on my lawn so I can waste every one of your punk asses.

I'm not worried about outsiders invading the US. We have enough scum right here to deal with.

[MT Alex]

I'm pretty sure that there only a handful of neo-nazi types in America, at least not enough to worry about. There are just a few inbred retards that the media parades about to keep people worked up and justify groups like the human rights network.

Shit, when I was younger the whole country was worked up about Haden Lake, Idaho and how it was a hot bed for neo-nazis, and home to a compound. National news frenzy. It wasn't anything but a dozen dip shits that could barely read and had a few FN-FALs and AR-15s.

The Montana State Constitution list every able bodied male over 18 as automatically part of the State militia. I've never met a Neo-Nazi. I've met a few fucktards with some prison tats who think they are going to be the next Manson, but no one around here takes them seriously. In my Dad and Uncle's time, they beat those fuckers unitl they could barely walk, and then the Sheriff would tell them to get out of the county.

[MT Alex]

The Eugene Stoner equivelant of the potato cannon.

Stoner!
http://img.techpowerup.org/101019/Stoner63lmg-1.jpg

[DrPepper]

Stoner!
http://img.techpowerup.org/101019/Stoner63lmg-1.jpg

Stoner made the best shit. Hardly anyone knows about him as well which is a shame.

[Wile E]

People get so excited about armed rebellion to solve the country's problems. If only you would get as excited about non-violent ways of resolving issues we could actually get shit done. Dumbasses. I hope the "south never fucking rises again" and Texas seceding would not be good for anyone. War is not glorious and a civil war is even less so. You will not enjoy it and you will not fucking have fun. Civil war is not your only fucking choice for getting what you want done. Get your heads out of your collective asses and spend your time thinking about how to fix the system rather than dismantle it.

Avy matches perfectly, yet again.

That is all.

[_JP_]

Stoner made the best shit. Hardly anyone knows about him as well which is a shame.
I know that he was the designer of the AR-15 rifle, later to be known worldwide as M16.
Also, that he was the one that designed the AR-10 rifle used by portuguese paratroopers during the colonial wars.

[DrPepper]

I know that he was the designer of the AR-15 rifle, later to be know worldwide as M16.
Also, that he was the one that designed the AR-10 rifle used by portuguese paratroopers during the colonial wars.

Among gun savvy and people who care he's well known but unlike John Browning, Mikhail Kalashnikov or Sam Colt the general public have no idea who he is even though he shaped the world.