Got any stupid car questions? Ask them here :)

[subatronic]

This thread is for everyone that has ever had ANY question about cars, trucks, or bikes, but felt like they'd be told it was common sense. None of that here, just answers :)

I've got a couple lol.

I've noticed that on a lot of cars built for drifting, the front and rear wheels are different..... Why?

I've also noticed the small size of the rear wheels on drag cars. From my understanding, this is to provide less weight to spin, as bigger wheels are heavier. Is there any other reason? And how do the wheels not spin inside the tires?

[Solaris17]

This thread is for everyone that has ever had ANY question about cars, trucks, or bikes, but felt like they'd be told it was common sense. None of that here, just answers :)

I've got a couple lol.

I've noticed that on a lot of cars built for drifting, the front and rear wheels are different..... Why?

I've also noticed the small size of the rear wheels on drag cars. From my understanding, this is to provide less weight to spin, as bigger wheels are heavier. Is there any other reason? And how do the wheels not spin inside the tires?

WAT i never thought of this.....how the F@#$ does this work?

[MRCL]

As a layman I'd say the tire itself sticks to some extent to the rim. The weight of the car does the rest.

As for the drifting, the back wheels suffer the most, while the front wheels do only the steering.

[erocker]

I've noticed that on a lot of cars built for drifting, the front and rear wheels are different..... Why?

I've also noticed the small size of the rear wheels on drag cars. From my understanding, this is to provide less weight to spin, as bigger wheels are heavier. Is there any other reason? And how do the wheels not spin inside the tires?

Well, with drifting (a useless waste of motoring in my opinion) rear tires are going to burn up quickly. All of that smoke is tire burning away. A drift car needs lots of rubber in the rear so you don't blow the tire out right away.

For drag racing, small wheels, more tire, more rubber, more traction. Drag wheels are meant to flex for traction. The wheels don't spin inside the tires because drag wheels use beadlocks. The wheel is clamped all around the tire. Front tires on a drag car are generally skinny and small. Less weight, less friction and are there only for minor steering correction, and to get the thing on and off the track.

http://www.cwibeadlock.com/RP%20Smoothie%20Gold300.jpg <---That is a beadlock wheel.

[twilyth]

I think it's just friction. You'd think though that there would be more friction between the tire and asphalt than the tire and rim. But my guess is there is more surface area between the tire and rim. You have a fairly large lip that makes contact so whatever that is, multiply it by the rim circumference and then by 2. My bet is that it's a lot larger than the tire's foot print.

Anyone have a good flash video for how an automatic transmission works? I've seen most of the common ones I think.

[subatronic]

Well, with drifting (a useless waste of motoring in my opinion) rear tires are going to burn up quickly. All of that smoke is tire burning away. A drift car needs lots of rubber in the rear so you don't blow the tire out right away.


http://www.cwibeadlock.com/RP%20Smoothie%20Gold300.jpg <---That is a beadlock wheel.

But I'm talking about the wheels, not the tires. That would make sense to have thicker tires but the front and rear wheels are different

[erocker]

But I'm talking about the wheels, not the tires. That would make sense to have thicker tires but the front and rear wheels are different

What do you mean? Front wheels are different (smaller, thinner) because they are only needed for steering, as I mentioned.

[subatronic]

What do you mean? Front wheels are different (smaller, thinner) because they are only needed for steering, as I mentioned.


Just to make sure we're on the same page, I'm referring to the drifting car, but I'm not sure if they're not as wide or what. All I've noticed is the front and rear wheel sets are different a lot. They look the same size, but they'll vary in color and style from the front ones. I tried to find a pic for u but I can't seem to find one now that I'm looking haha. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

[erocker]

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I'm referring to the drifting car, but I'm not sure if they're not as wide or what. All I've noticed is the front and rear wheel sets are different a lot. They look the same size, but they'll vary in color and style from the front ones. I tried to find a pic for u but I can't seem to find one now that I'm looking haha. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

I get what you're saying. Figure when someone wants to go drifting they need to get there and back, so they use their street wheels. Get to the tack, jack the car up and replace the rear wheels with your drifting wheels. The actual rim doesn't really make a difference.

[JC316]

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I'm referring to the drifting car, but I'm not sure if they're not as wide or what. All I've noticed is the front and rear wheel sets are different a lot. They look the same size, but they'll vary in color and style from the front ones. I tried to find a pic for u but I can't seem to find one now that I'm looking haha. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

Because they have multiple sets of wheels, stock for stock, drift for drift, etc. So, they might leave the front wheels stock, but put the drifting wheels on the back.

[subatronic]

I get what you're saying. Figure when someone wants to go drifting they need to get there and back, so they use their street wheels. Get to the tack, jack the car up and replace the rear wheels with your drifting wheels. The actual rim doesn't really make a difference.

I never really thought about it like that... Makes sense tho

[subatronic]

One other thing I wondered about drifting is if anyone ever tried using those omnidirectional tires in the back lol. In theory I could see it working better with a lot less lear on the tires, but idk how well it would actually work.... The rear diff would have to have a setting to spin both sides in opposite directions and blah blah blah.

[DrPepper]

I know how to cause a car to stall but what actually happens that stops the engine ?

How do I prolong the life of my clutch

Does more revs = more fuel consumption

Does stalling a car damage it

Good ways to prolong tires

Best bang for buck method to make my car faster.

[FordGT90Concept]

How do I change the blinker fluid?

[DrPepper]

How do I change the blinker fluid?

The blinkers have fluid ?!?!?!?!

[JC316]

I know how to cause a car to stall but what actually happens that stops the engine ?

How do I prolong the life of my clutch

Does more revs = more fuel consumption

Does stalling a car damage it

Good ways to prolong tires

Best bang for buck method to make my car faster.

Stalling a car with the clutch is simple. The clutch provides a direct link from the crankshaft to the rear wheels. When you let the clutch out, the strain from trying to move the car drags the engine down until it dies.

Prolonging the life of a clutch is simple, don't slip the clutch too much, don't hold it on a hill, don't ride the clutch and no redline clutch drops.

Yes, most revs = more fuel consumption.

Stalling a car doesn't damage it, just makes you look silly.

To prolong tires, no spinning them, proper inflation and rotating them even 5K-10K miles.

Depends on the car, but usually exhaust is the first step to more power.

[subatronic]

I know how to cause a car to stall but what actually happens that stops the engine ?

How do I prolong the life of my clutch

Does more revs = more fuel consumption

Does stalling a car damage it

Good ways to prolong tires

Best bang for buck method to make my car faster.

If u dump the clutch at a stand still the car has no momentum and will do one of two things: at high rpms, the engine is producing enough torque to turn over the transmission (like crazy) and u peal out. At low rpms, there's not enough torque to turn it over so its as if there's a giant brake in place of the flywheel and u just applied it. I would assume that's not very good on the engine lol.

If by more revs u mean rpms then yes. Example engine is 4 cyl. At 1000 rpms I believe ur fuel injectors are putting out 4000 sprays per min. (Plz correct me if I'm wrong there but I'm just getting the concept covered). At 3000 rpm, its 12000 sprays. 6000 rpm is 24000 etc etc.

Prolong tires.... Don't drive lol. No just don't take corners too hard, maintain tire pressure, avoid potholes (idk what u call them in the uk), don't drive too much faster than they are rated for lol.

Get ur car to go FASTER? just let it breathe easier. Could u run a race very well if u had to breathe through a straw? How about thru a great big k&n filter and 3 inch exhaust?

[twilyth]

The blinkers have fluid ?!?!?!?!
He's jerking your chain. Although we are talking about Ford so one never knows.

I have a question about rpm's. Don't you use more fuel under load at the same rpm's. I know that if it's around 40F or so out and I peel out from the end of my street and do the approx. 1/4 mile to the light, the engine warms up in a couple of minutes. But if I just start and let it idle, it takes several times longer.

[DrPepper]

How do I change the blinker fluid?

Well played sir.

Also what could I do to my exhaust to improve speed. See I bought a 1.0l car because I do a lot of driving for my work and I do about 1k miles a week, mostly short journeys. Anyway when buying the car I knew it would be slow but I'd like a bit more power when accelerating.

[subatronic]

He's jerking your chain. Although we are talking about Ford so one never knows.

I have a question about rpm's. Don't you use more fuel under load at the same rpm's. I know that if it's around 40F or so out and I peel out from the end of my street and do the approx. 1/4 mile to the light, the engine warms up in a couple of minutes. But if I just start and let it idle, it takes several times longer.

It all comes back to the combustions. How many more thousand combustions do u think ur running on that 1/4 mile vs the idle? Let's say ur runnin that same 4 cyl on an AVERAGE of 3500 rpms down that 1/4 mile for 20 seconds. That's almost 4700 combustions for the engine to get heat from, vs just over 1300 combustions at a 1k rpm idle. Does that make sense?

So basically what I'm sayin is its the heat from the extra combustions that's warming ur engine up faster lol

[twilyth]

It all comes back to the combustions. How many more thousand combustions do u think ur running on that 1/4 mile vs the idle? Let's say ur runnin that same 4 cyl on an AVERAGE of 3500 rpms down that 1/4 mile for 20 seconds. That's almost 4700 combustions for the engine to get heat from, vs just over 1300 combustions at a 1k rpm idle. Does that make sense?

So basically what I'm sayin is its the heat from the extra combustions that's warming ur engine up faster lol
I get that and maybe that's the whole explanation, but IDK. It's hard for me to understand how it could be using the same amount of fuel under load and under idle at say 1000 rpm's. Or, lets say you sit at idle and rev the engine at say 3000rpm's. If you're on the road at that rpm level, I'm pretty sure the throttle is pressed down further. So wouldn't you have to be using more fuel?

[JC316]

Well played sir.

Also what could I do to my exhaust to improve speed. See I bought a 1.0l car because I do a lot of driving for my work and I do about 1k miles a week, mostly short journeys. Anyway when buying the car I knew it would be slow but I'd like a bit more power when accelerating.


You sir are screwed for power if you bought a 1.0L car. Reduce weight and thats about it. Sorry.

[subatronic]

I get that and maybe that's the whole explanation, but IDK. It's hard for me to understand how it could be using the same amount of fuel under load and under idle at say 1000 rpm's. Or, lets say you sit at idle and rev the engine at say 3000rpm's. If you're on the road at that rpm level, I'm pretty sure the throttle is pressed down further. So wouldn't you have to be using more fuel?

Hmmm..... Idk I think it would be producing the same power at the same engine speed whether under load or not. But it would certainly be putting more strain on the engine when its under a load. I think the only reason it would be using more gas under load is cuz that load requires more torque than the flywheel does at idle speed. The transmission would need more torque too, so as soon as the rpms go up to provide that torque, so does fuel consumption.

[JC316]

I get that and maybe that's the whole explanation, but IDK. It's hard for me to understand how it could be using the same amount of fuel under load and under idle at say 1000 rpm's. Or, lets say you sit at idle and rev the engine at say 3000rpm's. If you're on the road at that rpm level, I'm pretty sure the throttle is pressed down further. So wouldn't you have to be using more fuel?

Yeah, load causes it to use more gas because the engine has to work harder to maintain that RPM.

[subatronic]

Well played sir.

Also what could I do to my exhaust to improve speed. See I bought a 1.0l car because I do a lot of driving for my work and I do about 1k miles a week, mostly short journeys. Anyway when buying the car I knew it would be slow but I'd like a bit more power when accelerating.

A: disconnect the exhaust, remove the engine and replace it with a 2.0l :)

B:switch out the transission with an atv transmission. It would accelerate a lot quicker with how its geared and could prolly handle ur 1.0l load ;)

[Deusxmachina]

Does more revs = more fuel consumption

Best bang for buck method to make my car faster.

In practical terms, yes, but not necessarily. Cars can get better gas mileage at one speed/rpm than another. You might even know someone who will say their car gets better mpg at, say, 65mph than at 55mph in the same gear. This is because a certain gear and certain rpm can be the best combo for making power more efficiently.

For a more extreme example, say you are driving a wimpy 4-cylinder and are lugging the engine with the pedal down in a high gear. If you downshift, the revs will be higher, but the car will be more in its powerband and thus more efficient.

As for the second question: nitrous.

[twilyth]

Yeah, load causes it to use more gas because the engine has to work harder to maintain that RPM.
I was hoping you would chime in since you do this stuff professionally. That does make more intuitive sense - although I can't say I trust my intuition. Trust but verify. :D

B:switch out the transission with an atv transmission. It would accelerate a lot quicker with how its geared and could prolly handle ur 1.0l load ;)
My 2008 Civic Si has really narrow gear spacing which is great since it has such a slippery transmission - you don't lose a lot of time shifting. The high redline is a blast too. You don't hit the meat on the powerband until about 7000 or so. I think the redline is around 8000 or so with the governor kicking in soon after that. So it is a little tricky keeping it in the sweet spot.
edit - thought it was 8500 but just looked it up. Hmmm. damned shitty memory.

[erocker]

The more RPM's the more gas it's using. It's as simple as that.

As for the 1.0 liter engine, there's not much you can do, the engine is the size of my drink on my desk. You could always add an easier breathing air filter and perhaps a better breathing exhaust but gains will be minimal.

*Btw, I am also a professional mechanic and own my own shop. :)

[subatronic]

Well played sir.

Also what could I do to my exhaust to improve speed. See I bought a 1.0l car because I do a lot of driving for my work and I do about 1k miles a week, mostly short journeys. Anyway when buying the car I knew it would be slow but I'd like a bit more power when accelerating.

Hey I'm just curious, what kind of car is it?

[DrPepper]

You sir are screwed for power if you bought a 1.0L car. Reduce weight and thats about it. Sorry.

Well it has the same HP as my old 1.4l but the car is much heavier. I need to add it's mostly for economy but if I get bored I'd like to add more power.

[twilyth]

Well it has the same HP as my old 1.4l but the car is much heavier. I need to add it's mostly for economy but if I get bored I'd like to add more power.
I know how you feel but unless you're a tuner, it's really not worth it. And the people who do this for a hobby either have gobs of money or work at places where they can do things themselves cheaply.

My first new car was a manual, 87 CRX. I could drive it but didn't know how to shift - still don't - not really. Anyway, I got smoked a couple of times and wanted to boost the power on that thing so badly. But my garage guy, who raced part time, talked me out of it. He explained all the shit involved in really adding horsepower to an engine and the fact of the matter is that you can drop a couple grand without breaking a sweat. And for what, really?

Before long you'll be ready to upgrade again and can think about what trade offs you want to make then.

[DrPepper]

I know how you feel but unless you're a tuner, it's really not worth it. And the people who do this for a hobby either have gobs of money or work at places where they can do things themselves cheaply.

My first new car was a manual, 87 CRX. I could drive it but didn't know how to shift - still don't - not really. Anyway, I got smoked a couple of times and wanted to boost the power on that thing so badly. But my garage guy, who raced part time, talked me out of it. He explained all the shit involved in really adding horsepower to an engine and the fact of the matter is that you can drop a couple grand without breaking a sweat. And for what, really?

Before long you'll be ready to upgrade again and can think about what trade offs you want to make then.

Well I can't drop a decent amount of money into the car. I'm not big on racing but a 3 cylinder and 1.0l is still pretty weak even for me.

[twilyth]

Well I can't drop a decent amount of money into the car. I'm not big on racing but a 3 cylinder and 1.0l is still pretty weak even for me.
One thing that used to give you a little boost was adding some sort of ethanol additive. But I suspect your gas is already enhanced if not E85 (15% ethanol).

Another cheap thing you can try is a less restrictive air filter - which might mean getting a custom air filter housing.

I don't know about oil additives. Stuff with teflon and shit like that used to be hawked very heavily here, but not any more (that I've noticed). But maybe a low weight engineered oil like Mobil 1 - IDK - JC will have to take that one. Although if you already burn some oil, that will make the problem worse.

[DrPepper]

One thing that used to give you a little boost was adding some sort of ethanol additive. But I suspect your gas is already enhanced if not E85 (15% ethanol).

Another cheap thing you can try is a less restrictive air filter - which might mean getting a custom air filter housing.

I don't know about oil additives. Stuff with teflon and shit like that used to be hawked very heavily here, but not any more (that I've noticed). But maybe a low weight engineered oil like Mobil 1 - IDK - JC will have to take that one. Although if you already burn some oil, that will make the problem worse.

Hmm when I get some spare time I'l try having a look at my car and figuring out the mechanics of it.

[JC316]

One thing that used to give you a little boost was adding some sort of ethanol additive. But I suspect your gas is already enhanced if not E85 (15% ethanol).

Another cheap thing you can try is a less restrictive air filter - which might mean getting a custom air filter housing.

I don't know about oil additives. Stuff with teflon and shit like that used to be hawked very heavily here, but not any more (that I've noticed). But maybe a low weight engineered oil like Mobil 1 - IDK - JC will have to take that one. Although if you already burn some oil, that will make the problem worse.

The Mobil 1 wont do jack for power, it's all snake oil. Mobil 1 is best used in something that is spinning at high RPM.

[subatronic]

The Mobil 1 wont do jack for power, it's all snake oil. Mobil 1 is best used in something that is spinning at high RPM.

Really? I thought it was the viscosity and weight of the oil that would determine the application, not the brand or quality

[twilyth]

Really? I thought it was the viscosity and weight of the oil that would determine the application, not the brand or quality
I think he means that the engineered oil is more consistent on a molecular level so a lighter weight, like SAE 5W20 in an engineered oil will give you better lubrication than a refined oil with the same specs.

[subatronic]

I think he means that the engineered oil is more consistent on a molecular level so a lighter weight, like SAE 5W20 in an engineered oil will give you better lubrication than a refined oil with the same specs.

As in synthetic vs conventional? Not mobil 1 vs castrol? Idk maybe I'm not catching on to something here lol.

While we're on the topic of oil tho, what is the actual difference between synthetic and conventional? It all comes out of the ground and is filtered from crude oil right?

[twilyth]

As in synthetic vs conventional? Not mobil 1 vs castrol? Idk maybe I'm not catching on to something here lol.

While we're on the topic of oil tho, what is the actual difference between synthetic and conventional? It all comes out of the ground and is filtered from crude oil right?
Yes, sorry, synthetic, not engineered. My mistake.

that's a good question. I think synthetic is, as I was saying, more consistent on a molecular level. It's also supposed to be less subject to breakdown. But are they both made from crude? I've always assumed synthetic meant it was cooked up from basic hydrocarbons. I guess the hydrocarbons could come from crude though. IDK.

[Deusxmachina]

The Mobil 1 wont do jack for power, it's all snake oil. Mobil 1 is best used in something that is spinning at high RPM.

Mobil 1/synth can help in other ways such as less clogging of lifters and things, which can then retard the timing. I certainly wouldn't say it's a common problem, but if your car happens to have that problem, it can be a big problem.

[subatronic]

Mobil 1/synth can help in other ways such as less clogging of lifters and things, which can then retard the timing. I certainly wouldn't say it's a common problem, but if your car happens to have that problem, it can be a big problem.

So basically what ur saying is that the quality of mobil 1 is so much better than the quality of oil that cars are engineered around, that it can affect the timing and potentially cause damage?

[Deusxmachina]

So basically what ur saying is that the quality of mobil 1 is so much better than the quality of oil that cars are engineered around, that it can affect the timing and potentially cause damage?

I said better oil can have a lower chance of clogging lifters. And if your car has a knock sensor, it can pick up on the clogged lifters and retard the timing and take away as much as half your horsepower if not more.

[erocker]

I said better oil can have a lower chance of clogging lifters. And if your car has a knock sensor, it can pick up on the clogged lifters and retard the timing and take away as much as half your horsepower if not more.

The key to keep that from happening is to change your oil every 3000 miles or so. Synthetic oil such as Mobil 1 creates less friction than conventional oil. You also don't need to change synthetic oil as often.

[JC316]

Mobil 1/synth can help in other ways such as less clogging of lifters and things, which can then retard the timing. I certainly wouldn't say it's a common problem, but if your car happens to have that problem, it can be a big problem.

If your car has clogged lifters from using oil, then you are going to have more problems than that. If the lifters are getting clogged up, then you can bet that the main bearings are getting starved for oil as well.

[subatronic]

If your car has clogged lifters from using oil, then you are going to have more problems than that. If the lifters are getting clogged up, then you can bet that the main bearings are getting starved for oil as well.

If they start getting clogged up, I've always wondered how well those oil treatments/additives work. I've heard that seafoam works the best for fuel system, vacuum lines, AND crankcase. ... I've tried it out with everything but the crankcase tho.

[Black Panther]

New problem: our FreeLander started getting clattering valves recently - the type when you're stressing the engine like going uphill you hear them clattering.
Also after a couple of days of changing it the radiator fluid gets all smudgy, foamy and oily. My diagnosis is that oil is leaking into the rad fluid (but husband isn't accepting it.... :rolleyes: but neither did he offer his own theory, he says tells me that I'm wrong - or perhaps he's praying that I'm wrong since he loves cars....)

Well, anyway, men are always right :rolleyes: :)

I still insist that there's no way radiator fluid can get muddy, oily, smudgy or foamy by itself without having engine oil leaking into it. Which means that there's either worn out sleeves, or perhaps a worn-out cylinder head gasket. Hopefully not a cracked cylinder head. Or perhaps something else: please help me in the diagnosis!

[twilyth]

New problem: our FreeLander started getting clattering valves recently - the type when you're stressing the engine like going uphill you hear them clattering.
Also after a couple of days of changing it the radiator fluid gets all smudgy, foamy and oily. My diagnosis is that oil is leaking into the rad fluid (but husband isn't accepting it.... :rolleyes: but neither did he offer his own theory, he says tells me that I'm wrong - or perhaps he's praying that I'm wrong since he loves cars....)

Well, anyway, men are always right :rolleyes: :)

I still insist that there's no way radiator fluid can get muddy, oily, smudgy or foamy by itself without having engine oil leaking into it. Which means that there's either worn out sleeves, or perhaps a worn-out cylinder head gasket. Hopefully not a cracked cylinder head. Or perhaps something else: please help me in the diagnosis!
Sounds like a classic case of a blown head gasket. If your exhaust is white and has a perfumey smell to it, you're burning coolant.

This will eventually cause extensive damage to the cylinders.

I had that happen on my 87 CRX. The engine over heated once and cracked the gasket. I continued to drive it like that eventually just had to ditch the car. Actually, I got the dealer to take it (up the ass) as a trade in on my 92 Civic Si. That was a great little car.

Good luck with that though. You need to get it looked at right away.

[subatronic]

New problem: our FreeLander started getting clattering valves recently - the type when you're stressing the engine like going uphill you hear them clattering.
Also after a couple of days of changing it the radiator fluid gets all smudgy, foamy and oily. My diagnosis is that oil is leaking into the rad fluid (but husband isn't accepting it.... :rolleyes: but neither did he offer his own theory, he says tells me that I'm wrong - or perhaps he's praying that I'm wrong since he loves cars....)

Well, anyway, men are always right :rolleyes: :)

I still insist that there's no way radiator fluid can get muddy, oily, smudgy or foamy by itself without having engine oil leaking into it. Which means that there's either worn out sleeves, or perhaps a worn-out cylinder head gasket. Hopefully not a cracked cylinder head. Or perhaps something else: please help me in the diagnosis!

I'd think there might be some coolant leaking into the oil too...... In either the crankcase or the radiator/coolant resevoir, the oil would float to the top. That's one way u could tell. If that is the case, after u find the leak don't forget to change ur oil too cuz u don't want water pumping into ur cylinders

[twilyth]

I'd think there might be some coolant leaking into the oil too...... In either the crankcase or the radiator/coolant resevoir, the oil would float to the top. That's one way u could tell. If that is the case, after u find the leak don't forget to change ur oil too cuz u don't want water pumping into ur cylinders
There is only one way for oil to get into the coolant - the head gasket. The only way to fix that is to replace it which basically means disassembling the engine..

[subatronic]

There is only one way for oil to get into the coolant - the head gasket. The only way to fix that is to replace it which basically means disassembling the engine..

Yep. I was just sayin not to forget to change the oil after. I've replaced gaskets before and forgot to put the coolant back in after cuz I was so glad to get the job done lol

[twilyth]

Yep. I was just sayin not to forget to change the oil after. I've replaced gaskets before and forgot to put the coolant back in after cuz I was so glad to get the job done lol
Respect dude (nutlick) Anyone who can do shit like that is god-like in my book.

[JC316]

If they start getting clogged up, I've always wondered how well those oil treatments/additives work. I've heard that seafoam works the best for fuel system, vacuum lines, AND crankcase. ... I've tried it out with everything but the crankcase tho.

It thins out the oil and breaks the sludge down. I have used to in the crankcase to free a stubborn lifter before, but it can cause oil leaks to get worse.

New problem: our FreeLander started getting clattering valves recently - the type when you're stressing the engine like going uphill you hear them clattering.
Also after a couple of days of changing it the radiator fluid gets all smudgy, foamy and oily. My diagnosis is that oil is leaking into the rad fluid (but husband isn't accepting it.... :rolleyes: but neither did he offer his own theory, he says tells me that I'm wrong - or perhaps he's praying that I'm wrong since he loves cars....)

Well, anyway, men are always right :rolleyes: :)

I still insist that there's no way radiator fluid can get muddy, oily, smudgy or foamy by itself without having engine oil leaking into it. Which means that there's either worn out sleeves, or perhaps a worn-out cylinder head gasket. Hopefully not a cracked cylinder head. Or perhaps something else: please help me in the diagnosis!

Odd for oil to get in the coolant, normally coolant gets in the oil. If it's a blown head gasket, the water goes in the cylinder, then it leaks down the rings and goes into the oil. My guess is that it has a water cooling jacket around the oil filter housing and the gasket is bad.

[twilyth]

It thins out the oil and breaks the sludge down. I have used to in the crankcase to free a stubborn lifter before, but it can cause oil leaks to get worse.



Odd for oil to get in the coolant, normally coolant gets in the oil. If it's a blown head gasket, the water goes in the cylinder, then it leaks down the rings and goes into the oil. My guess is that it has a water cooling jacket around the oil filter housing and the gasket is bad.
In my case, it went both ways. I was burning coolant when the engine was cold but I was also getting oil in the coolant and vice versa.

Why would you have a water jacket around an oil filter?

[Bundy]

New problem: our FreeLander started getting clattering valves recently - the type when you're stressing the engine like going uphill you hear them clattering.
Also after a couple of days of changing it the radiator fluid gets all smudgy, foamy and oily. My diagnosis is that oil is leaking into the rad fluid (but husband isn't accepting it.... :rolleyes: but neither did he offer his own theory, he says tells me that I'm wrong - or perhaps he's praying that I'm wrong since he loves cars....)

Well, anyway, men are always right :rolleyes: :)

I still insist that there's no way radiator fluid can get muddy, oily, smudgy or foamy by itself without having engine oil leaking into it. Which means that there's either worn out sleeves, or perhaps a worn-out cylinder head gasket. Hopefully not a cracked cylinder head. Or perhaps something else: please help me in the diagnosis!

As the others have said, along with your likely correct theory, you have a developing problem.

What is the oil like? Is it higher than normal on the dip stick? Do you drive the car for extended (e.g. 30 min) periods at full temperature? I'll assume this is unlikely on Malta so your problem is being disguised via the vehicle not getting fully to temp.

[JC316]

In my case, it went both ways. I was burning coolant when the engine was cold but I was also getting oil in the coolant and vice versa.

Why would you have a water jacket around an oil filter?

Oil cooler. Ford 4.6L motors uses em and same story, if the gasket blows, you get crossover between oil and water.

[twilyth]

As the others have said, along with your likely correct theory, you have a developing problem.

What is the oil like? Is it higher than normal on the dip stick? Do you drive the car for extended (e.g. 30 min) periods at full temperature? I'll assume this is unlikely on Malta so your problem is being disguised via the vehicle not getting fully to temp.
That would explain sludgy oil, but not oil in the coolant.

What I think bundy is talking about the phenomenon of getting condensation in a cold engine. You can see it in your tail pipe. When the engine is warming up, you will get water dripping from the exhaust. I think that is still true even if you have a catalytic converter.

You also get water in the engine block. That gets mixed in with the oil through the action of the oil being pumped onto moving parts like the the pistons, crank shaft etc. This creates a sort of emulsion. You have to drive the car at normal op temps for about 15-20min at least to evaporate the condensation and get it out of your oil. If you don't do this often, you need to change the oil more frequently.

[Bundy]

I am refering somewhat to that phenomenom but do want to hear what the oil is like, I think JC316 has put up a very likely answer.

[Black Panther]

Oil was normal, no greyish contamination so probably no coolant contamination either. The oil was a bit dirty being not changed since last summer (and my country is all up-hill and downhill so a car gets stressed)

Oil levels decreased by a tiny bit, but water increased by quite a lot and got... uhhh foamy/fluffy/whatever. Next time we start the car I make sure I take a good look so I can describe what I see.

My suspect is that oil is getting into the coolant and not vice versa. Now what might be causing that?
Exhaust is ok. The fumes are invisible, car's always garaged so no temp difference to emit condensation drips in exhaust. No blue or grey smoke either, so engine's not burning oil, and the smell is kinda tangy and unpleasant but I guess that's just our gas...

[JC316]

Oil was normal, no greyish contamination so probably no coolant contamination either. The oil was a bit dirty being not changed since last summer (and my country is all up-hill and downhill so a car gets stressed)

Oil levels decreased by a tiny bit, but water increased by quite a lot and got... uhhh foamy/fluffy/whatever. Next time we start the car I make sure I take a good look so I can describe what I see.

My suspect is that oil is getting into the coolant.
Exhaust is ok. It's invisible, no blue or grey smoke - engine's not burning oil, and the smell is kinda tangy and unpleasant but I guess that's just our gas...

Then it's not a head gasket.

[Black Panther]

Then it's not a head gasket.

Could it be, on the engine block there are certain 'soft spots' I don't know the english terminology - we call them soldi in maltese because often they're stuffed up with a sacrifical pressed penny :) All I know is that they're in the engine block not in the head. But if I remember correctly a fault there would only cause loss of coolant? They're 'sacrifical' because they should be the first thing to pop out in case of trouble...

I'm pretty sure that the 'soup' in our coolant is a result of oil getting mixed up with it... I mean what else can get coolant to get bubbly and all souped up? It's common sense.. But WHAT in the circuit could be causing the oil to have a higher pressure than the coolant so as to 'explode' into the coolant circuitry? The car neither leaks oil nor coolant. But apparently stuff's travelling to and fro in its innards...

[JC316]

Could it be, on the engine block there are certain 'soft spots' I don't know the english terminology - we call them soldi in maltese because often they're stuffed up with a sacrifical pressed penny :) All I know is that they're in the engine block not in the head. But if I remember correctly a fault there would only cause loss of coolant?

I'm pretty sure that the 'soup' in our coolant is a result of oil getting mixed up with it...

You are thinking of a freeze plug, and no, it wouldn't cause oil to mix with the water, it would cause you to lose all of the water.

[twilyth]

Could it be, on the engine block there are certain 'soft spots' I don't know the english terminology - we call them soldi in maltese because often they're stuffed up with a sacrifical pressed penny :) All I know is that they're in the engine block not in the head. But if I remember correctly a fault there would only cause loss of coolant? They're 'sacrifical' because they should be the first thing to pop out in case of trouble...

I'm pretty sure that the 'soup' in our coolant is a result of oil getting mixed up with it... I mean what else can get coolant to get bubbly and all souped up? It's common sense.. But WHAT in the circuit could be causing the oil to have a higher pressure than the coolant so as to 'explode' into the coolant circuitry? The car neither leaks oil nor coolant. But apparently stuff's travelling to and fro in its innards...
Do you have an auto transmission. I don't know if this is still true, but some cars used to have a separate cooling tank at the bottom of the radiator for cooling the hydraulic fluid. A problem there might explain the oil.

what color is it? I think transmission fluid tends to have a red tinge.

[erocker]

Oil levels decreased by a tiny bit, but water increased by quite a lot and got... uhhh foamy/fluffy/whatever.


Piston rings. It's called blow-by. It basically blends your oil into a nice fluffy poison ice cream topping!

[JC316]

Piston rings. It's called blow-by. It basically blends your oil into a nice fluffy poison ice cream topping!

No, the water in the radiator is whats foaming, not the oil.

[erocker]

No, the water in the radiator is whats foaming, not the oil.

Oh. Well, then there is most likely air getting into the system, the water pump works like a blender and turns it into a stinky foamy treat! It's easy to find out where the leak is usually. Put the system under pressure, look for leaks.

[CyberDruid]

Sounds like a cracked engine block. Oil passages and water channels run near each other in almost all engines. A crack (from overheating maybe) would allow them to mix.

[JC316]

Sounds like a cracked engine block. Oil passages and water channels run near each other in almost all engines. A crack (from overheating maybe) would allow them to mix.

Cracking an engine block with heat is a lot harder than most people think. Ice is usually what breaks a block.

[CyberDruid]

Cracking an engine block with heat is a lot harder than most people think. Ice is usually what breaks a block.

Well a common place for the oil and water to come together after overheating is where the heads meet the block. Heads are often alloy and can warp from heat. I agree cracking a cast iron block is not easy, but warping a head does happen after over heating.

[JC316]

Well a common place for the oil and water to come together after overheating is where the heads meet the block. Heads are often alloy and can warp from heat. I agree cracking a cast iron block is not easy, but warping a head does happen after over heating.

Warping a head, absolutely, but again it usually warps and blows near a water jacket, not an oil passage. I have never seen oil get into the water from a head gasket failure.

Oh an Black Panther, another thought just occurred to me, I have seen that foamy sludge before in GM vehicles when using the orange coolant known as Dexcool. It has a tendency to corrode the engine and break down gaskets and form a nasty, foamy sludge in the radiator. Is the coolant green or orange?

[Bundy]

Sounds like a cracked engine block. Oil passages and water channels run near each other in almost all engines. A crack (from overheating maybe) would allow them to mix.

Well a common place for the oil and water to come together after overheating is where the heads meet the block. Heads are often alloy and can warp from heat. I agree cracking a cast iron block is not easy, but warping a head does happen after over heating.

Warping a head, absolutely, but again it usually warps and blows near a water jacket, not an oil passage. I have never seen oil get into the water from a head gasket failure.

Oh an Black Panther, another thought just occurred to me, I have seen that foamy sludge before in GM vehicles when using the orange coolant known as Dexcool. It has a tendency to corrode the engine and break down gaskets and form a nasty, foamy sludge in the radiator. Is the coolant green or orange?

Thats why I asked about the oil - it's ok so the head and block must be ok.

[FreedomEclipse]

I have a question. how far would a wood chuck chuck wood if it was loaded into a back of a pickup travelling at 90mph on wet tarmack with air humidty about 60% while drifting around a corner on non wet tyres? the pickup in question has the engine of a Jaguar XJ220

[subatronic]

Respect dude (nutlick) Anyone who can do shit like that is god-like in my book.

Haha thanks. I think I was so excited to get it done cuz it was like 10 F outside lol. To be totally honest its not really all that difficult. I mean, yes an estimated 3 hour job can take 6 hours to finish, but the key is to keep everything organized. Have some masking tape and a sharpie to label vacuum lines, gas lines, electrical, etc, and stuff like that. I'm just sayin. I've had no automotive classes or training or ANYTHING. Everything I know is from personal study. If I can replace an intake manifold gasket on my first try and have everything still working after, I'm sure u could too :)

[Steevo]

The Mobil 1 wont do jack for power, it's all snake oil. Mobil 1 is best used in something that is spinning at high RPM.

Actually Mobil 1 synthetic is meant for longer drain intervals, lower friction losses and thus MINIMAL gains of power and most importantly, pumpability. Pumps up like 0W and when under pressure acts like a 30W faster lubrication on cold starts, better fluid stability on hot parts.


Diesels suffer from holes developing (electrolysis) in the liners or cylinders that will allow combustion gasses into the cooling system, and coolant into the crankcase.

http://www.fleetguard.com/html/en/products/cooling/coolant/supp_add.html

I use synthetic products in my cars and go 7000-12000 between oil drains after pulling oil samples. 214,000 on a car that still runs like new, and over 100K of that was on synthetics and extended drain intervals.


Change your fluids!!!! Brake, power steering, transmission, coolant, and wash you damn car. Many people overlook the maintenance other than changing oil and tires. Coolant breaks down into acids, which attack metal parts, eventually cause clogging and then parts of your engine start to overheat, the engine doesn't report that it is overheating as the temp sending sensor is only measuring the coolant temperature as it leaves the engine, it does not detect a hot spot between the valves that is causing slow warpage of a head. Once that starts to fail and slowly leak coolant into the oil the glycol and water forms acids and almost a glue that starts to cause bearing and cylinder/ring abrasion, accelerating the wear by hundreds of times. A user doesn't notice this until his car actually overheats due to lack of coolant, and by that time it is probably to late.


He/She blames the car for begin junk when it was a simple maintenance issue on their part. Same with transmission fluid, it breaks down, the filter slowly plugs with metal fines and clutch material, the transmission starves for oil, and the oil that is in it no longer contains enough additives to protect the bearings and bushings, the friction modifiers have worn out in the oil and cause harder or softer shifts and thus more clutch wear. Seal softeners deplete from the oil and the extra heat generated by more friction causes accelerated wear on sealing surfaces and they begin to leak. O-rings harden from heat and begin to crumble from cavitation combustion. Less pressure is applied to clutches due to the o-ring failure and more slippage causes eventual failure of the transmission. A shade tree mechanic or friend tells them to add a thickening product that will help in the short term, but causes more detrimental effects in the long term.

The power steering system is hard to use, it doesn't seem to work at all on cold days, and on hot days it leaks when you turn left. The oil contained within has been circulated between gears in a pump, a relief valve, hoses, cylinders and a steering hand pump millions of times. It has lost its protective additives, plus driving through water a few times has allowed some ingress. Numerous checks with dirty rags and other contamination coupled with the fact there is no filter in this system means failure is imminent. Most systems contain less than 3 quarts, meaning a change of this system could/should cost less than a pizza and wing dinner.

Brakes, so good until their gone. Brake fluid is a specialty application liquid that must provide high temperature boiling point to prevent brake fading, a stable viscosity so brakes work in sub zero conditions, water suspension agents to protect delicate brake system components from rust, and other detrimental effects, and provide low hydraulic compressibility. Standard transmission/hydraulic fluids and oils will suspend water but not protect from the damaging effects for very long as they contain anti-wear agents that are negatively reactive with water. Since the brake reservoir is almost always the highest point to help remove air bubbles the water that is heavier than oils will sink and cause issues with working components, or steel lines. Effects of aging and deterioration include darkening fluid that shows water ingress, lower boiling point causing brake fade (soft pedal and lack of response), leaks which are extremely dangerous, and eventual failure of the brake system. ABS systems will not work correctly or at all if conditions are severe enough. A brake system flush should be done when the fluid is tested and fails, or of contamination occurs.

[JC316]

Actually Mobil 1 synthetic is meant for longer drain intervals, lower friction losses and thus MINIMAL gains of power and most importantly, pumpability. Pumps up like 0W and when under pressure acts like a 30W faster lubrication on cold starts, better fluid stability on hot parts.


Diesels suffer from holes developing (electrolysis) in the liners or cylinders that will allow combustion gasses into the cooling system, and coolant into the crankcase.

http://www.fleetguard.com/html/en/products/cooling/coolant/supp_add.html

I use synthetic products in my cars and go 7000-12000 between oil drains after pulling oil samples. 214,000 on a car that still runs like new, and over 100K of that was on synthetics and extended drain intervals.


Change your fluids!!!! Brake, power steering, transmission, coolant, and wash you damn car. Many people overlook the maintenance other than changing oil and tires. Coolant breaks down into acids, which attack metal parts, eventually cause clogging and then parts of your engine start to overheat, the engine doesn't report that it is overheating as the temp sending sensor is only measuring the coolant temperature as it leaves the engine, it does not detect a hot spot between the valves that is causing slow warpage of a head. Once that starts to fail and slowly leak coolant into the oil the glycol and water forms acids and almost a glue that starts to cause bearing and cylinder/ring abrasion, accelerating the wear by hundreds of times. A user doesn't notice this until his car actually overheats due to lack of coolant, and by that time it is probably to late.


He/She blames the car for begin junk when it was a simple maintenance issue on their part. Same with transmission fluid, it breaks down, the filter slowly plugs with metal fines and clutch material, the transmission starves for oil, and the oil that is in it no longer contains enough additives to protect the bearings and bushings, the friction modifiers have worn out in the oil and cause harder or softer shifts and thus more clutch wear. Seal softeners deplete from the oil and the extra heat generated by more friction causes accelerated wear on sealing surfaces and they begin to leak. O-rings harden from heat and begin to crumble from cavitation combustion. Less pressure is applied to clutches due to the o-ring failure and more slippage causes eventual failure of the transmission. A shade tree mechanic or friend tells them to add a thickening product that will help in the short term, but causes more detrimental effects in the long term.

The power steering system is hard to use, it doesn't seem to work at all on cold days, and on hot days it leaks when you turn left. The oil contained within has been circulated between gears in a pump, a relief valve, hoses, cylinders and a steering hand pump millions of times. It has lost its protective additives, plus driving through water a few times has allowed some ingress. Numerous checks with dirty rags and other contamination coupled with the fact there is no filter in this system means failure is imminent. Most systems contain less than 3 quarts, meaning a change of this system could/should cost less than a pizza and wing dinner.

Brakes, so good until their gone. Brake fluid is a specialty application liquid that must provide high temperature boiling point to prevent brake fading, a stable viscosity so brakes work in sub zero conditions, water suspension agents to protect delicate brake system components from rust, and other detrimental effects, and provide low hydraulic compressibility. Standard transmission/hydraulic fluids and oils will suspend water but not protect from the damaging effects for very long as they contain anti-wear agents that are negatively reactive with water. Since the brake reservoir is almost always the highest point to help remove air bubbles the water that is heavier than oils will sink and cause issues with working components, or steel lines. Effects of aging and deterioration include darkening fluid that shows water ingress, lower boiling point causing brake fade (soft pedal and lack of response), leaks which are extremely dangerous, and eventual failure of the brake system. ABS systems will not work correctly or at all if conditions are severe enough. A brake system flush should be done when the fluid is tested and fails, or of contamination occurs.

Typical dino oil will go 5-8K between oil changes as well, that 3K is a myth sold down by the oil companies. Truth is that unless you are seeing stupidly high loads or high RPM's for long periods, then the synthetic oil is a waste of money. Everything else I agree with.

[subatronic]

Actually Mobil 1 synthetic is meant for longer drain intervals, lower friction losses and thus MINIMAL gains of power and most importantly, pumpability. Pumps up like 0W and when under pressure acts like a 30W faster lubrication on cold starts, better fluid stability on hot parts.


Diesels suffer from holes developing (electrolysis) in the liners or cylinders that will allow combustion gasses into the cooling system, and coolant into the crankcase.

http://www.fleetguard.com/html/en/products/cooling/coolant/supp_add.html

I use synthetic products in my cars and go 7000-12000 between oil drains after pulling oil samples. 214,000 on a car that still runs like new, and over 100K of that was on synthetics and extended drain intervals.


Change your fluids!!!! Brake, power steering, transmission, coolant, and wash you damn car. Many people overlook the maintenance other than changing oil and tires. Coolant breaks down into acids, which attack metal parts, eventually cause clogging and then parts of your engine start to overheat, the engine doesn't report that it is overheating as the temp sending sensor is only measuring the coolant temperature as it leaves the engine, it does not detect a hot spot between the valves that is causing slow warpage of a head. Once that starts to fail and slowly leak coolant into the oil the glycol and water forms acids and almost a glue that starts to cause bearing and cylinder/ring abrasion, accelerating the wear by hundreds of times. A user doesn't notice this until his car actually overheats due to lack of coolant, and by that time it is probably to late.


He/She blames the car for begin junk when it was a simple maintenance issue on their part. Same with transmission fluid, it breaks down, the filter slowly plugs with metal fines and clutch material, the transmission starves for oil, and the oil that is in it no longer contains enough additives to protect the bearings and bushings, the friction modifiers have worn out in the oil and cause harder or softer shifts and thus more clutch wear. Seal softeners deplete from the oil and the extra heat generated by more friction causes accelerated wear on sealing surfaces and they begin to leak. O-rings harden from heat and begin to crumble from cavitation combustion. Less pressure is applied to clutches due to the o-ring failure and more slippage causes eventual failure of the transmission. A shade tree mechanic or friend tells them to add a thickening product that will help in the short term, but causes more detrimental effects in the long term.

The power steering system is hard to use, it doesn't seem to work at all on cold days, and on hot days it leaks when you turn left. The oil contained within has been circulated between gears in a pump, a relief valve, hoses, cylinders and a steering hand pump millions of times. It has lost its protective additives, plus driving through water a few times has allowed some ingress. Numerous checks with dirty rags and other contamination coupled with the fact there is no filter in this system means failure is imminent. Most systems contain less than 3 quarts, meaning a change of this system could/should cost less than a pizza and wing dinner.

Brakes, so good until their gone. Brake fluid is a specialty application liquid that must provide high temperature boiling point to prevent brake fading, a stable viscosity so brakes work in sub zero conditions, water suspension agents to protect delicate brake system components from rust, and other detrimental effects, and provide low hydraulic compressibility. Standard transmission/hydraulic fluids and oils will suspend water but not protect from the damaging effects for very long as they contain anti-wear agents that are negatively reactive with water. Since the brake reservoir is almost always the highest point to help remove air bubbles the water that is heavier than oils will sink and cause issues with working components, or steel lines. Effects of aging and deterioration include darkening fluid that shows water ingress, lower boiling point causing brake fade (soft pedal and lack of response), leaks which are extremely dangerous, and eventual failure of the brake system. ABS systems will not work correctly or at all if conditions are severe enough. A brake system flush should be done when the fluid is tested and fails, or of contamination occurs.

Wow I started getting really into that like I was reading a book or something lol

[Jizzler]

You call that extended Steevo? ;)

I went 70K+ using only 12 quarts of Mobil 1. Five for the initial fill, and slightly less than 1qt to top off every 7500 mile filter change. Not that I suggest it to anyone else, just wanted to see how little oil I could use while boosting efficiency while still getting a reasonable life out of the vehicle. Wish I hadn't lost my logs... recorded mileage between every gas fill-up to calc MPG, where I bought the gas, when I did the changes, sample analysis, and all other maintenance.

Current car I bought new and have put 80K on it. Mobil 1 the first half, then went and tried Royal Purple these last 40K. Same RP is in there now, doing filter changes like with the Ram, but at 10K intervals.


What should I expect to pay for a decent ODB II reader? Preferably with computer hookup, to keep a database going of stats.

[Steevo]

Typical dino oil will go 5-8K between oil changes as well, that 3K is a myth sold down by the oil companies. Truth is that unless you are seeing stupidly high loads or high RPM's for long periods, then the synthetic oil is a waste of money. Everything else I agree with.

I ALWAYS advise people to RTFM on their car. Typically synthetics allow 2X the life expectancy of dino oil, just get a oil life analysis kit and try it at two oil changes.

You call that extended Steevo? ;)

I went 70K+ using only 12 quarts of Mobil 1. Five for the initial fill, and slightly less than 1qt to top off every 7500 mile filter change. Not that I suggest it to anyone else, just wanted to see how little oil I could use while boosting efficiency while still getting a reasonable life out of the vehicle. Wish I hadn't lost my logs... recorded mileage between every gas fill-up to calc MPG, where I bought the gas, when I did the changes, sample analysis, and all other maintenance.

Current car I bought new and have put 80K on it. Mobil 1 the first half, then went and tried Royal Purple these last 40K. Same RP is in there now, doing filter changes like with the Ram, but at 10K intervals.


What should I expect to pay for a decent ODB II reader? Preferably with computer hookup, to keep a database going of stats.
Using a synthetic 0W40 that contains some newer additives we have available in my car, and a larger synthetic media filter at 12K miles I still had 70%+ of the additive package left, however at almost two years on the oil the water content and micro particle count was getting high. Continued use would have polished the inside of the engine for me, and left the cylinder walls smooth and started causing blow-by. The water was going to start causing a fall in the TBN (Total Base Number) and it would be impossible to tell when it was time to change without another analysis. Bend of the knee effect. Also using a filter with the capacity to remove tiny particles creates high flow restriction and plugging. I could have just changed the filter but for the time investment and total cost it became more of a burden.

[Bundy]

Typical dino oil will go 5-8K between oil changes as well, that 3K is a myth sold down by the oil companies. Truth is that unless you are seeing stupidly high loads or high RPM's for long periods, then the synthetic oil is a waste of money. Everything else I agree with.

I agree. Synthetics are best for engines running constant high temps and constant revs. For normal use, they will contribute to faster wear rates due to excessive metal to metal contact at start up. For everyday cars, multigrade mineral oil is the best IMO. For race engines, synthetic slippery/low viscosity oils may provide the most hp but care must be taken for start up.

Steevo - I agree synthetics last longer but just because your oil lasts, doesn't mean you are doing your engine the best. I'd rather change my oil, than wear the engine. The distance you cite for your engine is still within normal ranges and is not an example of longevity. Taxi's over here are expected to get 400,000-500,000 km before overhaul. Thats just a standard engine.

For most cars these days, the engine should out last the car, assuming a typical life span of about 10 years.

[CyberDruid]

I am a dipstick sniffer. If I smell gasoline on the oil I change it regardless.

Synthetics cling better. Even 0 weight clings to the metal leaving a slight film. I've been tinkering with engines since I was a kid and I used to use Castrol single grade dinosaur juice exclusively...but the machines have changed, tolerances are tighter, clearances are smaller, and you are forced into using multigrade oil. I adopted synthetic when I finally got a "new" vehicle. And I have no complaints. 100K (almost) on the 5.7L Hemi with plenty of WOT time and no oil consumption, no noises, no problems.

[Steevo]

Synthetics are best for engines running constant high temps and constant revs. 1For normal use, they will contribute to faster wear rates due to excessive metal to metal contact at start up. 2For everyday cars, multigrade mineral oil 3is the best IMO. For race engines, synthetic slippery/low viscosity oils may provide the most hp but care must be taken for start up.

Steevo - I agree synthetics last longer but just because your oil lasts, doesn't mean you are doing your engine the best. I'd rather change my oil, than wear the engine. The distance you cite for your engine is still within normal ranges and is not an example of longevity. Taxi's over here are expected to get 400,000-500,000 km before overhaul. Thats just a standard engine.

For most cars these days, the engine should out last the car, assuming a typical life span of about 10 years.

1) So race cars that see "revs" in a very narrow band are formula 1 cars, NASCAR, or dragsters? Nope, all see wide ranges that constantly vary. Formula1 engines for example are so tight they cannot run cold. Whereas Nascar engines run hot due to artificially limited cooling to enhance aerodynamics. But.....many 1/4 mile cars are circulated with ice water before a race to INCREASE power output.

Extra heat truly is where synthetics shine, as consistent molecule size and thus stable viscosity across temperature ranges make them great, but also in extreme cold and pressure, again due to consistent molecule size. Polymers added are what make up the "W"eight of oil. A quart of 0W30 contains absolutely NO 30W oil, only thinner oil with polymer additives to make it act a certain specific way under pressure and temperature.

2) All oil drains off parts in the engine, synthetics pump up faster though, and provide more protection sooner.

Mineral oil contains no anti-wear additives like zinc, http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/3100/performance_oils_and_additives_got_zinc.aspx and in fact is the reason that snake oil additives are no longer allowed to make such exuberant claims. http://www.skepdic.com/slick50.html about performance, as they are lies. Many contained mineral oil, with no additives actually is a good to use additive when you have a engine that suffers from cylinder wall glazing. Other than that is causes accelerated wear on bearings, rings, cams, tappets, valves, and can cause premature seal failure.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/products/4232672

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/synthetic_vs_mineral_motor_oil/index.html

Synthetics are better for me as last week it was -20F outside, by the time I had the car started it had 20PSI of oil pressure. Synthetics are better for me as last summer it was above 100F and with the AC running my engine was at 220F for running temperature. Synthetics are best for me as a compression test was 7SPI off from the top factory spec on average with no leak down.

[Bundy]

lol it's your money I guess. If they made any difference, why wouldn't the car manufacurers just put that in in the first place? the cost difference is trivial compared to a car.

1. I should have said high temps and high revs. Don't know why I said constant revs, sorry. I think I was thinking of mono grade oil that we used to use for something entirely irrelevant.
2. Yes but they are thinner and do not hold as much film between non moving metal surfaces. Every time you start your engine the synthetic oil fails you. It's not about pump up time, it's what oil you still have between the surfaces from last time you started. Pump up time is a con IMO.

The references you quoted are LOL to me - they are full of that kind of advice - totally irrelevant and all about getting you to buy the advertised products that keep them paid. I bet some of them even give you a sticker for your bumper.

[JC316]

The synthetic vs regular oil is a tough debate. Yes the synthetic is better for most applications, just like a .50 caliber bullet is better for most applications, but it's still overkill. Run synthetics from day 1 in a new truck engine under normal circumstances and it will go for say 250K miles without much issue, but the exact same can be said dino oil. Unless you are seeing stupidly high temps, then it will be fine with regular. My truck has 233K miles on it right now, always had the cheap stuff in it and the engine still has optimal compression and no smoking.

Now, if I were to build a 4V engine with forged internals, blower cams and an 8K redline, then yeah, synthetics all the way, but in an every day engine it will be overkill.

[Steevo]

lol it's your money I guess. If they made any difference, why wouldn't the car manufacurers just put that in in the first place? the cost difference is trivial compared to a car.

1. I should have said high temps and high revs. Don't know why I said constant revs, sorry. I think I was thinking of mono grade oil that we used to use for something entirely irrelevant.
2. Yes but they are thinner and do not hold as much film between non moving metal surfaces. Every time you start your engine the synthetic oil fails you. It's not about pump up time, it's what oil you still have between the surfaces from last time you started. Pump up time is a con IMO.

The references you quoted are LOL to me - they are full of that kind of advice - totally irrelevant and all about getting you to buy the advertised products that keep them paid. I bet some of them even give you a sticker for your bumper.

I'm not sure you still understand about synthetics.

They are a oil just like dino oil except engineered with the exact properties and size and weight for a consistent base oil VS a mixture of various sized separated by distillation and blended.



Really the argument is would you rather have the same size ball bearings or different sized all trying to keep a shaft turning? Synthetic is all the same size, conventional is a mixture.


Lastly, the polymers that make ANY OIL, not just synthetic multi-grade are synthetic. The same polymer goes in both bottles, so you theory about not holding parts or failing is WRONG, and thus the reason that high performance motors DO come with factory fill synthetics, like corvette, Caddys, Mercedes, Porsche, Midsubishi Lancers, Acura, Nissan GT series,

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Factory_Fill/Vehicles_Filled_Mobil_1.aspx?pg=2


I would rather take the extra insurance and have a vehicle last even the extra 20K miles that the extra few hundred cost me to buy synthetics, as the payment on a car is beyond that. For applications where dirt ingress is a possibility and you don't have a positive crankcase pressure to keep crap out of your oil I would suggest using a standard cheap oil, and changing it more often. Modern cars are very clean, and since I "accidentally" crushed the EGR tubing there is no more worry about hot exhaust gasses and the acids they form and carbon introduction.....bla bla bla.

And car makers want you to BUY another car. So they can sell it to you, so they want it to last a very specific amount of time, and that is called "engineered for cost" and the reason that all cars don't get 5MPG more than they do now, have that extra premium radio, synthetic fill, and that extra 20HP. If they did why would you buy the new model or upgrade?

[JC316]

I would rather take the extra insurance and have a vehicle last even the extra 20K miles that the extra few hundred cost me to buy synthetics, as the payment on a car is beyond that. For applications where dirt ingress is a possibility and you don't have a positive crankcase pressure to keep crap out of your oil I would suggest using a standard cheap oil, and changing it more often. Modern cars are very clean, and since I "accidentally" crushed the EGR tubing there is no more worry about hot exhaust gasses and the acids they form and carbon introduction.....bla bla bla.

And car makers want you to BUY another car. So they can sell it to you, so they want it to last a very specific amount of time, and that is called "engineered for cost" and the reason that all cars don't get 5MPG more than they do now, have that extra premium radio, synthetic fill, and that extra 20HP. If they did why would you buy the new model or upgrade?

But I highly doubt you will actually see that extra 20K by using synthetic. The majority of the time, you will see the head gasket go, or the transmission long before the car starts smoking. On top of that, most people sell off their car long before they would even reach that 250K mark. It's rare that the engine block needs repair.

[Wile E]

Synthetic also gives more power and gas mileage. It's better all the way around if you can afford it. No reason not to use it if you can. Instead of 5 or 6k on conventional, you can go 8-10k on synthetic. It's costs are right in line with it's performance.

And I do not doubt a car with synthetic used it's entire life lasts longer than one that doesn't, when all else is equal.

[Bundy]

I'm not sure you still understand about synthetics.

They are a oil just like dino oil except engineered with the exact properties and size and weight for a consistent base oil VS a mixture of various sized separated by distillation and blended.

Really the argument is would you rather have the same size ball bearings or different sized all trying to keep a shaft turning? Synthetic is all the same size, conventional is a mixture.


Lastly, the polymers that make ANY OIL, not just synthetic multi-grade are synthetic. The same polymer goes in both bottles, so you theory about not holding parts or failing is WRONG, and thus the reason that high performance motors DO come with factory fill synthetics, like corvette, Caddys, Mercedes, Porsche, Midsubishi Lancers, Acura, Nissan GT series,

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Factory_Fill/Vehicles_Filled_Mobil_1.aspx?pg=2


I would rather take the extra insurance and have a vehicle last even the extra 20K miles that the extra few hundred cost me to buy synthetics, as the payment on a car is beyond that. For applications where dirt ingress is a possibility and you don't have a positive crankcase pressure to keep crap out of your oil I would suggest using a standard cheap oil, and changing it more often. Modern cars are very clean, and since I "accidentally" crushed the EGR tubing there is no more worry about hot exhaust gasses and the acids they form and carbon introduction.....bla bla bla.

And car makers want you to BUY another car. So they can sell it to you, so they want it to last a very specific amount of time, and that is called "engineered for cost" and the reason that all cars don't get 5MPG more than they do now, have that extra premium radio, synthetic fill, and that extra 20HP. If they did why would you buy the new model or upgrade?

I understand a little about synthetics and oils.:p

The polymers you refer to are more accurately described in laymans terms as spagetti, not balls. The lubrication is provided is via the polymer strands sliding against each other. Note that longer length molecule = increased sliding = increased viscosity.

Lets compare synthetic vs mineral oil. In theory, the performance should be the same but in reality, because mineral oil is distilled and synthetic oil is cracked and stuck together, synthetic oils have a tighter range of polymer length. To read how synthetic oils are made read here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process) and for a very simplified picture on mineral oils see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crude_Oil_Distillation.png)

What is the difference? In a perfect world, none. An important thing to note though is that synthetic oils usually have a tighter range of manufactured polymer lengths and therefore a more precise viscosity.

So what type of oil is needed for a certain application? This depends on the relative velocities of the two components, the oil viscosity and the angle of approach (i.e wedging). To keep this answer briefish, I'll make the analogy to a hydroplaning tyre - this is what we want oil to do in your engine, hydroplane the surfaces apart. If the surfaces are sliding at greater relative speeds, a less viscous oil will keep them apart. Also, if the angle of approach is less, a less viscous oil may be used. The opposite applies also, more angle or slower speed requires higher viscosity.

So back to the differance between synthetic and mineral oils, plus address your valid concern about performance engines. When designing an engine, one of the criteria considered will be the machining tolerance of the components. By gauging the components, manufacturers can place components into bins and ensure tolerances are within ranges. A performance engine usually has tighter tolerances bia better binning and subsequent machining. General car engines have less strict binning and so must have looser tolerances. The oil that should be used for each engine is determined by these tolerances. A mass manufactured engine has looser fits and requires higher viscosity oils to function correctly. A performance engine has less variance in tolerance, has tighter fits and should have lower viscosity oils.

It is ok to use synthetic oils in loose engines but the viscosity should be matched with the oil spec range required. It is a mistake to think that decreased viscosity is always better - each engine has an ideal viscosity. This is where my concern lies, performance synthetic oils are often of too low viscosity to be suitable in normal car engines. If they were made at the same viscosity of the specified mineral oils suitable for an engine, I'd have no concerns.

I'm not saying you are WRONG (as you like to put it), more so urging caution. Engine manufactures do put the correct oil in their engines and engines do outlast the cars(400,000 -500,000 km). Running with wiz bang super modified dish washing liquid does is not a good idea when your engine is not suited for it. I agree that performance engines use high performance oils. This is the correct choice. Putting mobil 1 in a standard motor will not get you better lifespan, sorry. Maybe the fuel economy will improve a little but only if your engine is in the 'lucky' range, otherwise the opposite may occur. The best oils are as what are recommended by the manufacturer, whether the engine is a standard, performance or formula 1 type.

If you really want to use synthetic oils, make sure you match the viscocity with the specifications of the original mineral oil used.

[Bundy]

Synthetic also gives more power and gas mileage. It's better all the way around if you can afford it. No reason not to use it if you can. Instead of 5 or 6k on conventional, you can go 8-10k on synthetic. It's costs are right in line with it's performance.

And I do not doubt a car with synthetic used it's entire life lasts longer than one that doesn't, when all else is equal.

All my cars are serviced at 15,000 km intervals (9300 miles) on mineral oil - as recommended by the manufacturer.

[CyberDruid]

My Buell 1125r is supposed be serviced thus: change oil every 10,000 KM (6.200 Miles); change oil filter cartridge every 20,000 KM (12.400 miles). And that's a very high strung hard working powerplant. Dino oil will shear out of grade (nothing to do with "weight") long before 6200 miles, I am guessing because I have not had oil analysis done, which is why it got Synthetic right after the 1000KM break in.

Regardless, if I smell gasoline in the oil I change it. And I change the filter with each oil change. Seems like cheap insurance to me. Compared to thousands for repairs later down the line.

But maybe I am just stuporstitious about it. I've always been an obsessive oil changer. On the Trumpet if the oil started getting dark I changed it.

[Steevo]

I understand a little about synthetics and oils.:p

The polymers you refer to are more accurately described in laymans terms as spagetti, not balls. The lubrication is provided is via the polymer strands sliding against each other. Note that longer length molecule = increased sliding = increased viscosity.

Lets compare synthetic vs mineral oil. In theory, the performance should be the same but in reality, because mineral oil is distilled and synthetic oil is cracked and stuck together, synthetic oils have a tighter range of polymer length. To read how synthetic oils are made read here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process) and for a very simplified picture on mineral oils see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crude_Oil_Distillation.png)

What is the difference? In a perfect world, none. An important thing to note though is that synthetic oils usually have a tighter range of manufactured polymer lengths and therefore a more precise viscosity.

So what type of oil is needed for a certain application? This depends on the relative velocities of the two components, the oil viscosity and the angle of approach (i.e wedging). To keep this answer briefish, I'll make the analogy to a hydroplaning tyre - this is what we want oil to do in your engine, hydroplane the surfaces apart. If the surfaces are sliding at greater relative speeds, a less viscous oil will keep them apart. Also, if the angle of approach is less, a less viscous oil may be used. The opposite applies also, more angle or slower speed requires higher viscosity.

So back to the differance between synthetic and mineral oils, plus address your valid concern about performance engines. When designing an engine, one of the criteria considered will be the machining tolerance of the components. By gauging the components, manufacturers can place components into bins and ensure tolerances are within ranges. A performance engine usually has tighter tolerances bia better binning and subsequent machining. General car engines have less strict binning and so must have looser tolerances. The oil that should be used for each engine is determined by these tolerances. A mass manufactured engine has looser fits and requires higher viscosity oils to function correctly. A performance engine has less variance in tolerance, has tighter fits and should have lower viscosity oils.

It is ok to use synthetic oils in loose engines but the viscosity should be matched with the oil spec range required. It is a mistake to think that decreased viscosity is always better - each engine has an ideal viscosity. This is where my concern lies, performance synthetic oils are often of too low viscosity to be suitable in normal car engines. If they were made at the same viscosity of the specified mineral oils suitable for an engine, I'd have no concerns.

I'm not saying you are WRONG (as you like to put it), more so urging caution. Engine manufactures do put the correct oil in their engines and engines do outlast the cars(400,000 -500,000 km). Running with wiz bang super modified dish washing liquid does is not a good idea when your engine is not suited for it. I agree that performance engines use high performance oils. This is the correct choice. Putting mobil 1 in a standard motor will not get you better lifespan, sorry. Maybe the fuel economy will improve a little but only if your engine is in the 'lucky' range, otherwise the opposite may occur. The best oils are as what are recommended by the manufacturer, whether the engine is a standard, performance or formula 1 type.

If you really want to use synthetic oils, make sure you match the viscocity with the specifications of the original mineral oil used.

Yes, more like needle bearings than ball, but in conventional oil he Sizes are larger in diameter and longer being a blend of base stocks, the polymer is like a net that unfolds under pressure or high temps to trap more oil and form a stronger film. The only time you have metal on metal contact is if your bearing tolerances are high and oil pressure is low, or if tolerances are low and the shear viscosity of your oil fails.


Will it last a extra 20K with synthetic over dino? Considering I maintain the rest of the car, synthetic transmission fluid, properly greased, change other fluids, belts, hoses, coolant. There is no reason it will fail other than lack of maintenance or defect.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-07/29/the-two-point-eight-million-mile-man


Car companies know most users WON'T replace fluids and maintain cars to their standards. For those that do, they last a long time. We have a truck at work that had over 350K on it before it was sold, gas truck.

When we became a Mobil dealer we had to take a few classes, one was given by a engineer, same with our other major oil brand, 0W30 meets and EXCEEDS the 5W30 and 10W30 specification. The first number can be thought of as the viscosity/weight likeness of oil for pumping ability. The second number can be thought of as the viscosity/weight likeness of oil for protecting parts under pressure.


So a 0W30 will pump up as fast as a 0W oil, providing faster protection, it is able to move through passages with less hydraulic losses so the internal friction is less and you get more pressure at the last oil galley than you would with a 10W oil. When it is forced into mains, rods, wrist pins, cams, tappets, it acts as a 30W oil should. If it didn't a hydraulic tappet would never work with synthetic, it would just spray back out.

[de.das.dude]

2.8million miles. lol.

[Bundy]

My Buell 1125r is supposed be serviced thus: change oil every 10,000 KM (6.200 Miles); change oil filter cartridge every 20,000 KM (12.400 miles). And that's a very high strung hard working powerplant. Dino oil will shear out of grade (nothing to do with "weight") long before 6200 miles, I am guessing because I have not had oil analysis done, which is why it got Synthetic right after the 1000KM break in.

Regardless, if I smell gasoline in the oil I change it. And I change the filter with each oil change. Seems like cheap insurance to me. Compared to thousands for repairs later down the line.

But maybe I am just stuporstitious about it. I've always been an obsessive oil changer. On the Trumpet if the oil started getting dark I changed it.

Your Buell has a very nice engine and it makes sense that you would care more for it. Enjoy:)

Yes, more like needle bearings than ball, but in conventional oil he Sizes are larger in diameter and longer being a blend of base stocks, the polymer is like a net that unfolds under pressure or high temps to trap more oil and form a stronger film. The only time you have metal on metal contact is if your bearing tolerances are high and oil pressure is low, or if tolerances are low and the shear viscosity of your oil fails.


Will it last a extra 20K with synthetic over dino? Considering I maintain the rest of the car, synthetic transmission fluid, properly greased, change other fluids, belts, hoses, coolant. There is no reason it will fail other than lack of maintenance or defect.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-07/29/the-two-point-eight-million-mile-man


Car companies know most users WON'T replace fluids and maintain cars to their standards. For those that do, they last a long time. We have a truck at work that had over 350K on it before it was sold, gas truck.

When we became a Mobil dealer we had to take a few classes, one was given by a engineer, same with our other major oil brand, 0W30 meets and EXCEEDS the 5W30 and 10W30 specification. The first number can be thought of as the viscosity/weight likeness of oil for pumping ability. The second number can be thought of as the viscosity/weight likeness of oil for protecting parts under pressure.


So a 0W30 will pump up as fast as a 0W oil, providing faster protection, it is able to move through passages with less hydraulic losses so the internal friction is less and you get more pressure at the last oil galley than you would with a 10W oil. When it is forced into mains, rods, wrist pins, cams, tappets, it acts as a 30W oil should. If it didn't a hydraulic tappet would never work with synthetic, it would just spray back out.

Not too sure what you are angling at? It is obvious that 0W30 is different to 10W30 because the numbers designate a specification. BTW - I have watched oil being graded many times and am very familiar with the test method and what they mean. Your description drifts a bit from what the spec is really for but good enough. It supports what I was saying - use the specified oil in your car. It also depends on ambient temperatures, here in Oz, there is little to be gained from going below 5W. e.g. my car uses 5w30.

My beef is with the FUD surrounding synthetics. If you want to believe it then so be it.(toast)

[erocker]

My beef is with the FUD surrounding synthetics. If you want to believe it then so be it.(toast)

What FUD? It creates less friction, lasts a bit longer and is more expensive. That's about it.

[Magibeg]

Ok new problem :P

So my car has been having surging issues at high rpm ever since my spark plugs were changed. The engine light is on and after checking the code, it was for the crank position sensor. So i got the crank position sensor replaced. Still have the same problem. Not sure where to go with it next.

[Steevo]

Not too sure what you are angling at? It is obvious that 0W30 is different to 10W30 because the numbers designate a specification. BTW - I have watched oil being graded many times and am very familiar with the test method and what they mean. Your description drifts a bit from what the spec is really for but good enough. It supports what I was saying - use the specified oil in your car. It also depends on ambient temperatures, here in Oz, there is little to be gained from going below 5W. e.g. my car uses 5w30.


http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/MOTOR_OIL_GUIDE_2010_120210-2.pdf

Just seeing the oil tested at room temperature is nothing. That is the same reason I asked a Lucas rep if I could put his display in the freezer for a hour until it was below freezing. Of course he didn't want to do that.

The left number represents the pump up, and how the oil acts at low temps, when pressure is applied it is already thicker, so it provides the same protection as the right number will.


There are charts that show the flow to temperature, and currently 0W30 has the best rating for all weather, temperature, and service conditions.

[CyberDruid]

Ok new problem :P

So my car has been having surging issues at high rpm ever since my spark plugs were changed. The engine light is on and after checking the code, it was for the crank position sensor. So i got the crank position sensor replaced. Still have the same problem. Not sure where to go with it next.

Could your timing chain or belt be going out?

[JC316]

Ok new problem :P

So my car has been having surging issues at high rpm ever since my spark plugs were changed. The engine light is on and after checking the code, it was for the crank position sensor. So i got the crank position sensor replaced. Still have the same problem. Not sure where to go with it next.

How is the wiring to the crankshaft position sensor?

[Bundy]

What FUD? It creates less friction, lasts a bit longer and is more expensive. That's about it.
The FUD that leads average motorists to believe they should spend money on these products and be better off.
http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/MOTOR_OIL_GUIDE_2010_120210-2.pdf

Just seeing the oil tested at room temperature is nothing. That is the same reason I asked a Lucas rep if I could put his display in the freezer for a hour until it was below freezing. Of course he didn't want to do that.

The left number represents the pump up, and how the oil acts at low temps, when pressure is applied it is already thicker, so it provides the same protection as the right number will.


There are charts that show the flow to temperature, and currently 0W30 has the best rating for all weather, temperature, and service conditions.

The grading I refer to is testing in an oil manufacturers laboratoy (hint). You don't need to explain the grading specifications to me, truely(toast).

[Bundy]

How is the wiring to the crankshaft position sensor?

Yes - he should check the ground.

[Magibeg]

Alright i'll check the ground tomorrow and see how that goes, and possibly have a gander at the timing belt.

[Bundy]

Alright i'll check the ground tomorrow and see how that goes, and possibly have a gander at the timing belt.

Sorry - I was a bit busy earlier and couldn't answer fully. What I was trying to say was that the circuit may have two grounds - one for the sensor via the engine and a separate one via the circuit board in the engine management system. Both need to be well grounded to the chassis/negative terminal of the battery or you will have ground currents interfering with the signal.

What JC316 is referring to is the main signal wire - it should be clear all the way to the wiring harness. Check for shorts to ground off that as well.

If they are all passing ok - The CyberDruids concerns are looking real and the belt needs checking ASAP.

[Magibeg]

Sorry - I was a bit busy earlier and couldn't answer fully. What I was trying to say was that the circuit may have two grounds - one for the sensor via the engine and a separate one via the circuit board in the engine management system. Both need to be well grounded to the chassis/negative terminal of the battery or you will have ground currents interfering with the signal.

What JC316 is referring to is the main signal wire - it should be clear all the way to the wiring harness. Check for shorts to ground off that as well.

If they are all passing ok - The CyberDruids concerns are looking real and the belt needs checking ASAP.

Hey Bundy.... how about coming to Canada and having a look.... i have beer ;)

[Bundy]

mmmm beer.(toast) I'd love too but in any case I'm not an autoelectrician, I'm a mechanical engineer. You need someone qualified to help and I am very much at my limit of knowledge here.

Look - check out the obvious stuff yourself and if that doesn't work for you, you should find a autoelectrician. I find small shops are less expensive and give better service than large ones.

What you are looking for is the ground wire from the engine to the chassis and/or to the negative terminal on the battery - is this solid and ok? Then check the sensor itself and make sure it has a clean connection to the engine (maybe it has it's own ground wire back, I dunno). What i'm saying is that if it's faulty, it should be obvious. For the earth running from the engine management, that may be harder to find - maybe the auto elec should check.

What Cyberdruid said still might be the thing though - as I said, if the electrics check out ok, you need to get the timing belt checked/replaced ASAP. Catastophe is the next thing to occur if it's the timing belt. In the meantime, avoid high revs!

One last thing, you changed the plugs. They were the correct ones I assume? They were not go fast hot plugs?

[JC316]

I doubt it's the timing belt. You won't see a crankshaft position code for jumped timing, it just won't run right and it will give you a random misfire code. Usually if a car jump time, it flat wont run.

[Bundy]

^^^It's JC who should be going to Canada!

[twilyth]

I always thought that a timing belt either worked or broke. I never heard of it jumping a tooth or something like that. Is that really possible?

[Bundy]

yep, but unlikely if the engine is well maintained. Chains and belts also stretch, actually they kind have to in order to jump a tooth.

[JC316]

I always thought that a timing belt either worked or broke. I never heard of it jumping a tooth or something like that. Is that really possible?

It's possible. The timing belt tensioner on my old 2.5L Mazda 626 went out and the belt jumped. When that happened it absolutely refused to run.

[Steevo]

Some engines like my wifes toyota the belt runs the cams and the timing. So it will run, like shit.

Smaller shops are parts replacers most of the time, replace parts until it works. Then of course they charge you for all the parts you didn't need, and the time to replace them.


Get a haynes or see if a dealership will let you see a service manual, or subscribe to one of the many online manual sites for a week, get a good a multi-meter. They should have tests procedures, testing for voltage on pins, resistance, or frequency. a set of paperclips and some alligator clips that can be used for other purposes when you are finished and a set of spoons. Repair or replace the faulty components, not almost everything else.


I know people who are parts replacers, they pat themselves on the back after replacing 5 parts, spending a few hundred dollars and finally fixing a problem.

[JC316]

Some engines like my wifes toyota the belt runs the cams and the timing. So it will run, like shit.

Smaller shops are parts replacers most of the time, replace parts until it works. Then of course they charge you for all the parts you didn't need, and the time to replace them.


Get a haynes or see if a dealership will let you see a service manual, or subscribe to one of the many online manual sites for a week, get a good a multi-meter. They should have tests procedures, testing for voltage on pins, resistance, or frequency. a set of paperclips and some alligator clips that can be used for other purposes when you are finished and a set of spoons. Repair or replace the faulty components, not almost everything else.


I know people who are parts replacers, they pat themselves on the back after replacing 5 parts, spending a few hundred dollars and finally fixing a problem.

On all cars the timing belt/chain/gear runs the cam/s and the timing.

[erocker]

The FUD that leads average motorists to believe they should spend money on these products and be better off.

Thing is, synthetic lasts about double what conventional oil does. How can one tell? It's easy, look at how dirty the oil is after 3000 miles or so. Synthetic doesn't really burn like regular oil so you have to look at particulates. At my shop it costs about double the price of a regular oil change, so really it evens out and you have the convienence of not having to get the oil changed as frequently. Personally in my car, it uses 5w20. 5w20 is a synthetic blend that generally costs the same as regular oil. I stick to using that.

Whoever is getting the crank code, check the crank sensor. Often it wil be located around the bellhousing of the transmission.

[JC316]

Thing is, synthetic lasts about double what conventional oil does. How can one tell? It's easy, look at how dirty the oil is after 3000 miles or so. Synthetic doesn't really burn like regular oil so you have to look at particulates. At my shop it costs about double the price of a regular oil change, so really it evens out and you have the convienence of not having to get the oil changed as frequently. Personally in my car, it uses 5w20. 5w20 is a synthetic blend that generally costs the same as regular oil. I stick to using that.

Whoever is getting the crank code, check the crank sensor. Often it wil be located around the bellhousing of the transmission.

I use 10W30 in my 4.9L I6, used 5W30 in everything else. He already changed out the crank sensor on it, still getting the code.

[erocker]

He already changed out the crank sensor on it, still getting the code.

That sucks but were the connections checked though?

[JC316]

That sucks but were the connections checked though?

That was my question. I told him to check the wiring, he has yet to post back.

[Steevo]

On all cars the timing belt/chain/gear runs the cam/s and the timing.

Our Highlander we had ran with a crank sensor and a cam sensor, both are used, but the crank sensor overrides the cam sensor for ignition timing, as does my olds with this same engine. On my wifes Celi the belt turns a cam bear, the other end of the cam turns the distributor.

http://www.wellsve.com/video_gmcamsensor.html

[JC316]

Our Highlander we had ran with a crank sensor and a cam sensor, both are used, but the crank sensor overrides the cam sensor for ignition timing, as does my olds with this same engine. On my wifes Celi the belt turns a cam bear, the other end of the cam turns the distributor.

http://www.wellsve.com/video_gmcamsensor.html

There is always going to be something external that sets base timing and timing advancements, be it points, a dizzy, or camshaft/crankshaft sensors. The timing belt always keeps the crankshaft and the camshaft in time with one another.

When changing out the timing belt, you have to align the timing marks so they stay in time, the belt doesn't actually control the timing. Most everything new has the cam/crank sensors that tell the ECM where the camshaft and piston is so that it can control when the fuel injectors and spark plugs fire.

[Bundy]

I think what he is saying is that there may be a different sensor being used and that one may be faulty.

[JC316]

I think what he is saying is that there may be a different sensor being used and that one may be faulty.

There are separate codes for the cam and crank sensor, one wont cause the other to fire.

[Magibeg]

Sorry for the not posting back. Been really busy with a lot of stuff, unfortunately still haven't checked it (those of you with superb memory and huge time spent on the forums will recall i dislocated my shoulder recently). Should hopefully get it checked out by my mechanic sometime this week.

[Wile E]

All my cars are serviced at 15,000 km intervals (9300 miles) on mineral oil - as recommended by the manufacturer.

Drive like I drive, and your car would die by the 3rd oil change. lol.

There is a reason the vast majority of drag racers I know use full synthetic in their race cars.

Does the average driver need it? No. But it sure as hell doesn't hurt. Synthetic does the job it claims to do.

[cdawall]

i got one who thinks a cummins TD will fit into my 05 ranger :p i already know the answer but am curious about our car techs on here

[Wile E]

With enough cutting and welding, you can fit just about anything.

[1Kurgan1]

Anything can fit, you just have to make it fit, moving/cutting firewall, and other crap. Theres no way it will drop in, probably not even close, just build a 302 and drop it in there, will be cheap, and more than enough power for a small truck.

[Wile E]

Or even better, a 351 based 408 stroker. Still small enough of a stroke to keep the pin out of the oil ring, but big enough to make some serious torque and power without the need for radical cams and revs.

[cdawall]

Anything can fit, you just have to make it fit, moving/cutting firewall, and other crap. Theres no way it will drop in, probably not even close, just build a 302 and drop it in there, will be cheap, and more than enough power for a small truck.

muwahaha wrong the cummins 4BT fits perfect also the factory 302s cant touch the 4.0 SOHC and it takes more money to get one to compete with the 4.0 than getting just a 4BT and getting better gas mileage while at it.

[Wile E]

Who said anything about a factory 302?

[cdawall]

Who said anything about a factory 302?

even with GT40 heads and a cam your still only looking at 270HP a 300HP 650lb ft of torque is a stock dodge turbo, 3200RPM limiter spring and fuel screw away.

[Wile E]

GT40 heads are fucking lame.

[cdawall]

fine gt40P

[twilyth]

Here's my stupid question.

Are most/all superchargers belt driven? If so, why doesn't anyone use an electrically powered blower. Wouldn't it be more efficient? You would be spinning the alternator more and would probably need a bigger alternator, but over all, wouldn't it give you the same power without putting a drain on the engine?

Alternately, couldn't you have an exhaust turbine that would charge a separate electrical system for the blower?

[de.das.dude]

looking at GN getting spammed (http://www.generalnonsense.net/showthread.php?t=5326)


EDIT SORRY WRONG BROWSER TAB

[JC316]

Here's my stupid question.

Are most/all superchargers belt driven? If so, why doesn't anyone use an electrically powered blower. Wouldn't it be more efficient? You would be spinning the alternator more and would probably need a bigger alternator, but over all, wouldn't it give you the same power without putting a drain on the engine?

Alternately, couldn't you have an exhaust turbine that would charge a separate electrical system for the blower?

Electric superchargers are BS. It takes a tremendous amount of air to make boost and the electric just can't keep up. It would require an unreal amount of power to work, which would drag the engine down.

looking at GN getting spammed (http://www.generalnonsense.net/showthread.php?t=5326)

Wrong thread I think.

[Steevo]

Here's my stupid question.

Are most/all superchargers belt driven? If so, why doesn't anyone use an electrically powered blower. Wouldn't it be more efficient? You would be spinning the alternator more and would probably need a bigger alternator, but over all, wouldn't it give you the same power without putting a drain on the engine?

Alternately, couldn't you have an exhaust turbine that would charge a separate electrical system for the blower?

Electrical superchargers are a horrible idea. Power to efficiency they are bad due to high power requirements, gears to make a compressor blade spin fast enough to work are mechanical and cause additional power losses, increase heat and provides another failure point. A electrical fan supercharger might be good for idling at 20% more power. But 600CFM at atmospheric pressure and 6 square inches of surface area? Fans are rated in CFM also, but most don't show pressure drop as a factor. 100CFM at .02% pressure drop is NOT the same as 100CFM at 60PSI pressure increase.

We have a exhaust turbine system in use as the most efficient power boost device, however it is a direct drive system as it is most effective that way, and few moving parts. Turbo charger.

Hot exhaust is directed over the vanes of a turbo scroll, the pressure differential causes the scroll to move, the more pressure the more speed. a solid shaft turns through a center bearing and cooling housing to drive a intake side compressor scroll, again the pressure differential causes air to flow assisted by centrifugal force. The higher RPM the higher airflow at higher pressure.


We have adjustable turbos, with bypass, and liquid and or oil cooling, ceramic scrolls for faster spin up, nickel/exotic metal scrolls for high RPM/boost situations. Plain jane steel/stainless dual pressure floating bearing designs.


So failure points? Exhaust scroll can be damaged by excessive RPM and cause single point failure. Intake scroll can be damaged by excessive RPM and cause chain failure if there are no protection devices in place. Bearing failure is a eventuality and thus a wear item. Ceramic seals can fail blowing oil into either or exhaust or intake, but are considered a wear item. On more advanced designs with shiftable housings the linear actuator can fail, but will cause no damage other than poor performance. Bypass valves can fail, causing excessive RPM, or poor performance and whatever consequential damage occurs from it.

[1Kurgan1]

muwahaha wrong the cummins 4BT fits perfect also the factory 302s cant touch the 4.0 SOHC and it takes more money to get one to compete with the 4.0 than getting just a 4BT and getting better gas mileage while at it.

Sorry I thought you meant a real diesel.... You asked a question, I gave you an answer based on, most people don't want to go small.

And like said, who said anything about factory, the Rangers a small truck, don't need to TD it, something more snappy will be more fun. And 302's are dirt cheap to build, I would never leave a 302 stock, theres a reason they are so popular, and it's because the aftermarket for them is MASSIVE, and it's simple to drop into a Ranger because everyone and their mother has done it, so tons of info out there.

[twilyth]

JC and Steevo: found this article (http://www.wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/eturbo.aspx) that explains the problems with electric boost devices in fairly simple terms.

Understanding that forcing more air into the engine will make more power, it stands to reason that if we can place an electric fan in the intake path that will force air into it, we can make more power.

The problem with this idea is that most people who think of it really have no idea how much air gets pumped by the engine during its normal operation. The engine acts as a big air pump and is capable of moving huge volumes of air all on its own. With that in mind, any electric fan that you place in the path of the intake is only going to act as an obstacle to efficient airflow and not provide any level of boost whatsoever. In order to provide boost, the fan has to be able to force more air through the intake than is already being sucked and that's simply not going to happen with some off-the-shelf computer fan or bilge exhaust blower or whatever else you've found or had marketed to you.

[cdawall]

Sorry I thought you meant a real diesel.... You asked a question, I gave you an answer based on, most people don't want to go small.

And like said, who said anything about factory, the Rangers a small truck, don't need to TD it, something more snappy will be more fun. And 302's are dirt cheap to build, I would never leave a 302 stock, theres a reason they are so popular, and it's because the aftermarket for them is MASSIVE, and it's simple to drop into a Ranger because everyone and their mother has done it, so tons of info out there.

4bt has almost as much info on it now its getting pretty popular. As for a real diesel 3.9l is plenty big for a 4k lb truck...also if dropping in a v8 the 4.6dohc fits so I was looking at that

[DrPepper]

How do you turn the car 180 degrees when reversing really quickly ?

I can't really figure out how to do it and I'd like to do it after I've delivered a pizza to show off if I'm honest.

I can do handbrake turns into parking spots and easy shit like that but never reversing.

[1Kurgan1]

4bt has almost as much info on it now its getting pretty popular. As for a real diesel 3.9l is plenty big for a 4k lb truck...also if dropping in a v8 the 4.6dohc fits so I was looking at that

The 4.6 DOHC is a good motor, but more expensive, unless you go to an older one, but those really don't have room for modding unless you get new pistons. The 302 is dirt cheap, and cheaper to build, may start with less power, but doesn't take much to change that. If you want to be different, you could always go 2.4l Turbo, this is an older Ragner, but same idea.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f305/shov8/c00039.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f305/shov8/SANY0324.jpg

Or if you care not for purists, get a Junkyard LQ9 (6.0L LSx motor), do a bit of head work, and a cam, and be making sick power for dirt cheap.

How do you turn the car 180 degrees when reversing really quickly ?

I can't really figure out how to do it and I'd like to do it after I've delivered a pizza to show off if I'm honest.

I can do handbrake turns into parking spots and easy shit like that but never reversing.

Start with front wheel drive car, start moving in reverse, quick snap wheel, and you should flip right around. Not really suggesting it, it can be really hard on the transmission, because, unlike rear wheel drive, your front tires are powering your car and turning it, lots of stress up front when you do that.

[cdawall]

302 just isn't worth it imo over the 4.0 sohc...at least imo

[1Kurgan1]

Probably not, why not just stick with the 4.0, it's plenty enough for that truck, I've seen Rangers almost trapping 100mph in the 1/4 with them as N/A, thats pretty darn quick.

[Steevo]

How do you turn the car 180 degrees when reversing really quickly ?

I can't really figure out how to do it and I'd like to do it after I've delivered a pizza to show off if I'm honest.

I can do handbrake turns into parking spots and easy shit like that but never reversing.

Reverse at at least 20 MPH, it depends on ground conditions and tires. turn the wheel the opposite direction that you want the car to spin, while sliding at least 2/3 way through the turn shift from reverse into drive and apply moderate throttle while turning wheel back to center/and or position to correct your path.


Start on dirt in a junker, or with crap tires in a junker on a open parking lot.


I think the swedes have a good driving system down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_Sweden

Some of the more advanced tests involve controlling a car in a spin, braking, traction...... Things in the US that idiots have no idea.


Borderline braking AKA impending lockup? Still better and faster than ABS by a large margin, but takes finesse and control.

Powering out of a slide or spin, again, finesse and control.


Teaching a few people how to do just impending lockup back to back burnt out the ABS actuators on my olds. But they are safer drivers because of it. Most people won't ever use or try hard braking, hard acceleration or learning how to drive on the edge unfortunately, they will never know what it takes to feel, or control a vehicle when it is needed, and thus nanny tings like ABS, traction control, steering override, and now even self parking helps dolts on the road that don't need to be.


I think every car on the road should be put through a yearly test/inspection for safety. Yes perhaps you have never used the breaks hard, but what happens if you need to? The lining rivets have started to fail and will peel off when you need them most, the bonding agent is failing? Your brake fluid boils at a measly 200F, your parking brake sticks on, your return spring is weak. Almost bald tires at any time of year, or wet weather tires in winter. Lights burnt out or erratic operation, wipers don't work, engine, or ABS system needs maintenance. Car stalls when accelerating, improper shifting, fluid levels, leaks, belts, and steering play. Remember, driving is NOT a right.


On the way back from training in Iowa last week we overtook a old man driving 60 in a 75 with the foot on the brakes, we could smell them as we approached. Tell me his brakes aren't ready for failure.

I was rear ended lightly by a idiot who hit my Explorers receiver hitch with his car as "I didn't think it would be that slick", it was glare ice right at the stop sign out side of the school.

7 car accidents, 5 from idiots bouncing off each other, two from a idiot rear ending a stopped SUV at 70 cause she didn't notice the brake lights when there was as 1/4 mile of traffic lined up already, and then the dumbass flying up behind me was sliding to a stop.

[Polaris573]

Why is RWD faster off the line than FWD? Why do purist sports car drivers prefer RWD over AWD?

There should be a no judgment stupid questions thread for every topic. I love this idea.

[cdawall]

Probably not, why not just stick with the 4.0, it's plenty enough for that truck, I've seen Rangers almost trapping 100mph in the 1/4 with them as N/A, thats pretty darn quick.

well i am chunking 4.88s in it so it should trap pretty good now :p

Why is RWD faster off the line than FWD? Why do purist sports car drivers prefer RWD over AWD?

There should be a no judgment stupid questions thread for every topic. I love this idea.

RWD is faster because of weight transfer. RWD is also more controllable and predictable than AWD at least IMO

[Steevo]

RWD, your get a little out of line you can power through it, try that with a FWD and you will meet a barrier.

RWD you can still steer during power spin and maintain acceptable control.

FWD you have torque steer.


Tires have a finite amount of traction, lets say 100 lbs of lateral force in any direction.

Would you rather use 80Lbs for acceleration and 20Lbs for maintaining directional velocity (RWD), or 60Lbs for acceleration and 40Lbs for creating directional control (FWD)?

[Wile E]

fine gt40P

Not any better. Think Advanced Airflow Research (AFR), Trick Flow, World Products, or a whole slew of others that shame ANY GT40 casting, even the X's.

The 4.6 DOHC is a good motor, but more expensive, unless you go to an older one, but those really don't have room for modding unless you get new pistons. The 302 is dirt cheap, and cheaper to build, may start with less power, but doesn't take much to change that. If you want to be different, you could always go 2.4l Turbo, this is an older Ragner, but same idea.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f305/shov8/c00039.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f305/shov8/SANY0324.jpg

Or if you care not for purists, get a Junkyard LQ9 (6.0L LSx motor), do a bit of head work, and a cam, and be making sick power for dirt cheap.



Start with front wheel drive car, start moving in reverse, quick snap wheel, and you should flip right around. Not really suggesting it, it can be really hard on the transmission, because, unlike rear wheel drive, your front tires are powering your car and turning it, lots of stress up front when you do that.
4.6L block handles MUCH more power than a factory 302 block. A girdled 302 block is only good for 600-650HP, a 4.6 block is good for over 1000HP without a girdle.

[cdawall]

Not any better. Think Advanced Airflow Research (AFR), Trick Flow, World Products, or a whole slew of others that shame ANY GT40 casting, even the X's.

man but i can get GT40/p's out of an expo for like nothing

[Wile E]

World Products Windsor Jr's and Sr's are iron and aren't all that expensive.

Why is RWD faster off the line than FWD? Why do purist sports car drivers prefer RWD over AWD?

There should be a no judgment stupid questions thread for every topic. I love this idea.

Weight transfers to the rear of the vehicle on launch. This helps traction on a RWD by adding weight (and therefore adds more friction preventing slippage) to the rear tires and hinders on a FWD by removing weight from the front tires.

And Steevo has a decent explanation of why purists prefer RWD for handling.

[1Kurgan1]

4.6L block handles MUCH more power than a factory 302 block. A girdled 302 block is only good for 600-650HP, a 4.6 block is good for over 1000HP without a girdle.

Oh yeah, not talking about the block, I know 302's limit on that is pretty low. But the older 4.6L DOHCs internals are pretty weak beyond factory levels.

[Wile E]

Oh yeah, not talking about the block, I know 302's limit on that is pretty low. But the older 4.6L DOHCs internals are pretty weak beyond factory levels.

Meh, just pistons and rods, and they are still just fine for anything besides heavy forced induction. A stock 302 bottom end isn't capable of any more than the 4.6L. Not to mention rods and pistons aren't all that expensive to replace anyway. Cobra cranks are forged and ready for big power from the factory. Then you have the Terminator short blocks. Good for quad digits from the factory with no changes whatsoever.

[cdawall]

Meh, just pistons and rods, and they are still just fine for anything besides heavy forced induction. A stock 302 bottom end isn't capable of any more than the 4.6L. Not to mention rods and pistons aren't all that expensive to replace anyway. Cobra cranks are forged and ready for big power from the factory. Then you have the Terminator short blocks. Good for quad digits from the factory with no changes whatsoever.

not saying i dont think the terminator block is not the best engine ford has ever released which i do at least until the 5.0 coyote takes its place in history

but 1000HP is not the end all anymore

http://www.thecarconnection.com/tips-article/1004325_gm-prods-ecotec-to-1000-hp

GM done it with a 4 banger and switching from alum to steel sleeves and some new studs.

[Wile E]

not saying i dont think the terminator block is not the best engine ford has ever released which i do

but 1000HP is not the end all anymore

http://www.thecarconnection.com/tips-article/1004325_gm-prods-ecotec-to-1000-hp

ecotec done it switching from alum to steel sleeves and some new studs.

Not with a factory bottom end they didn't. There are 1000hp+ 4G63's out there as well, but not with factory bottom ends either. The Terminator can handle it bone stock. There aren't many engines that can claim that. One of the few others I can think of is a 2JZ-GTE.

[1Kurgan1]

Meh, just pistons and rods, and they are still just fine for anything besides heavy forced induction. A stock 302 bottom end isn't capable of any more than the 4.6L. Not to mention rods and pistons aren't all that expensive to replace anyway. Cobra cranks are forged and ready for big power from the factory. Then you have the Terminator short blocks. Good for quad digits from the factory with no changes whatsoever.

I suppose the 4.6L have the same bottom end as the SOHC's, so I suppose it isn't too bad of a price. Terminator blocks on the other had, probably just better off buying the whole motor I would assume.

Not with a factory bottom end they didn't. There are 1000hp+ 4G63's out there as well, but not with factory bottom ends either. The Terminator can handle it bone stock. There aren't many engines that can claim that. One of the few others I can think of is a 2JZ-GTE.

L67/L32 can, requires great tuning, but the 2 fastest 3800's in the country both use stock pistons/rods/crank and run 8's at around 160mph, and they dont even have forged pistons....

[JC316]

I suppose the 4.6L have the same bottom end as the SOHC's, so I suppose it isn't too bad of a price. Terminator blocks on the other had, probably just better off buying the whole motor I would assume.


The 96-98 Cobra uses a forged crank, where the SOHC motors and the DOHC Mark VIII motors use a nodular iron crank. The rods used in all 4V and 2V Windsor blocks are slightly heavier duty, but only slightly. The 91-98 4.6L 2V Romeo blocks are the weakest.

[char[] rager]

Which do you guys prefer, yellow-lighted turn signals or red-lighted?

I prefer yellow-lighted because it looks better in my opinion, and is easier to spot amongst all of the other red-lighted lights on the exterior of a car.

[cdawall]

when i do my gear swap worth it to put a new diff cover on too since i am replacing the seal anyway...

looking at this one its a cheapy

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Ford-8.8-Differential-Cover-p-2678.html

[subatronic]

Best methods to fix/prevent flat tires from pinholes to.... larger-than-pinhole holes.

[erocker]

Best methods to fix/prevent flat tires from pinholes to.... larger-than-pinhole holes.

I merged your thread. Anyhoo, best prevention is not to run shit over. Never use any fluids or other garbage in your tires.

Best methods to fix a flat? It depends on the size and angle of the hole. If it's in the sidewall or close to the sidewall, get a new tire as the hole can easily develop into a tear or a blowout.

If the puncture is in the tread it is fixable. In most cases a simple plug will work, they look like this:

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/tire-plugs.jpg

The plug will vulcanize to the tire for a nice seal. It's easy to do and doesn't require the tire to be removed from the vehicle.

For punctures that are large or at a wierd angle you will want to use a plug/patch. They look like this:

http://img.hisupplier.com/var/userImages/2008-01/16/topairtools_141154.jpg

They also require that the tire be taken off of the rim, so unless you have a tire changer, it needs to go to the shop. The good thing is, it's relatively cheap to do.

[subatronic]

I merged your thread. Anyhoo, best prevention is not to run shit over. Never use any fluids or other garbage in your tires.

Best methods to fix a flat? It depends on the size and angle of the hole. If it's in the sidewall or close to the sidewall, get a new tire as the hole can easily develop into a tear or a blowout.

If the puncture is in the tread it is fixable. In most cases a simple plug will work, they look like this:

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/tire-plugs.jpg

The plug will vulcanize to the tire for a nice seal. It's easy to do and doesn't require the tire to be removed from the vehicle.

For punctures that are large or at a wierd angle you will want to use a plug/patch. They look like this:

http://img.hisupplier.com/var/userImages/2008-01/16/topairtools_141154.jpg

They also require that the tire be taken off of the rim, so unless you have a tire changer, it needs to go to the shop. The good thing is, it's relatively cheap to do.

Ya after I posted that thread I was wondering why the hell I didn't just put it in here...

What about a pinhole? And what is bad about those cans of fix a flat stuff?

[erocker]

Ya after I posted that thread I was wondering why the hell I didn't just put it in here...

What about a pinhole? And what is bad about those cans of fix a flat stuff?

With a pinhole you should just use a plug. First take a boring tool to make it a bit larger and plug it.

Fix a flat stuff is awful. A lot of shops will charge you extra when swapping tires. It's a nasty chemical that gets all over the rim. It can actually seep through between the rim and tire, cause corrosion and cause bead leaks.

[subatronic]

With a pinhole you should just use a plug. First take a boring tool to make it a bit larger and plug it.

Fix a flat stuff is awful. A lot of shops will charge you extra when swapping tires. It's a nasty chemical that gets all over the rim. It can actually seep through between the rim and tire, cause corrosion and cause bead leaks.

Wow that interesting.... Major design flaw there lol. It'll patch ur tire but ruin everything else lol. What do u think about that slime stuff that's supposed to prevent flats?

[erocker]

Wow that interesting.... Major design flaw there lol. It'll patch ur tire but ruin everything else lol. What do u think about that slime stuff that's supposed to prevent flats?

Slime stuff isn't as bad. I like to charge extra when finding that gunk getting all over my tire machine.

[Steevo]

I have filled a few tires multiple times with fix a flat, and slime, and air.


Its gross. Fortunately the tire in question was attached to a shit vehicle that was getting scrapped. Only use it when there are no alternatives. Plugs can cause a balance issue, get them replaced or rebalanced after you use one. Especially if you did it while the hole was dirty.

[subatronic]

Slime stuff isn't as bad. I like to charge extra when finding that gunk getting all over my tire machine.

I guess I'll just stick to the plug then lol. U got any tips for me? Lol

[erocker]

I guess I'll just stick to the plug then lol. U got any tips for me? Lol

Sure. To fix it, line the tire up so you have room to work with.
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/erocker414/tirehole.jpg

Make sure there is plenty of air in the tire, and ram the boring tool into the hole.

This is the bore tool:
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/erocker414/boretool.jpg

Then get your plug, place it into the plug tool, remove the boring tool and plug it.

[subatronic]

Sure. To fix it, line the tire up so you have room to work with.
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/erocker414/tirehole.jpg

Make sure there is plenty of air in the tire, and ram the boring tool into the hole.

This is the bore tool:
http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/erocker414/boretool.jpg

Then get your plug, place it into the plug tool, remove the boring tool and plug it.

Idk why but that first pic just cracks me up haha. Thanks for the input tho. After u use the bring tool, how long do u have till the tire goes flat? Lol