Pick my next car!!!

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Originally I had settled on a Passat 2.0T for the amazing interior and the likes.

However - I've been looking at the used market after seeing my first ever Porsche 914/6.

There are several options locally, I've driven most and am SO TORN! -
VW Jetta TDI (New)
Pros: Decent performance
50+mpg!
Great interior
Cons: Ridiculous price for service costs
22k$ new price, hard to find them used, even more so with <150k miles

VW Passat 2.0T (Used)
Pros: Better performance
Still decent fuel economy
One of the most top notch interiors you'll ever find
~16k$
Cons: 29 highway isn't 50mpg highway
Service costs will be pretty high
It's a little bit bigger... not enough to be too much of a bother though

1994 Porsche 968
Pros: Insane performance A La 0-60 in 4.9
It's a manual
It's sexy as hell
Only 10 grand $
Cons:
Gas mileage
Service and repairs will likely be often and expensive

1974 Chevrolet Corvette
Pros: It is the sexiest auto ever made
Easy and cheap to work on
Cons: Kinda slow
No airbags
Gas guzzler

1973 Porsche 914 (4 cylinder)
Pros: BEAUTIFUL
Decent fuel economy
Excellent interior, way ahead of its time
Cons:
Expensive as hell to work on
Expensive initial cost
No airbags
Get this... 10.5 second 0-60!

I'm not going to include a poll, don't be lazy and tell me WHY! Maybe you guys can help sway my decision.

[1Kurgan1]

All are nice cars, but a few are vastly different. Are these just local choices, and are you going to look at anything else or, or is this what you have to choose from? And whats this car going to be used for, the first 2 are the best DD choices, the 3rd and 4th are the best summer cars, and the 5th, I never liked those, I would rule that out.

I'm assuming the Porche 968 is the Turbo S, otherwise the normal models are not too quick, whats the price on the Vette and what condition is it in with what motor.

Here's the way I would put it now...

You want gas mileage and a slow car get the TDI, but that still makes no sense as the 6k premium is going to make up the gas prices.

You want an all around nice car, quick, good ride, decent gas mileage, hopefuly maintence free then get the Passat.

If you want fast right now, get the Porche if it is the Turbo S, if not, it's not any faster than the VW.

You want cool factor, V8 growl, cheap upgrades (depending on motor), get the Vette. If the price of this is under the Porche then I would say this would be the speed choice as it probably wouldn't take a ton to make it faster and would be cheaper to maintain.

But if you are looking for a DD I would really rule out the Vette and the Porche unless you live in a very nice climate. And even then would still rule out the Porche as stacking miles on a car with rare parts is really going to hurt the Wallet. The vette will have a good supply of common parts if you really wanted to take this route. But honestly if I was you and looking around the 15k - 20k range, I would seriously look into C5 Vettes. They are killer cars, and can knockout competitive gas mileage as the non-TDI jetta you are looking at with far more power and handling stock and far more capability with afetermarket.

[LittleLizard]

i would go with the jetta as is new, so has warranty, easy to find pieces (altough may be expensive). also is one of the fastest vw if im not wrong.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

I should've mentioned what I'm buying for -
I'd really like to start collecting. I've loved cars for the longest time (American and European specifically, the only Asian cars to ever catch my attention were Mazda Miatas... Gay... I know, right?)

Either way, I think I've settled. My main daily driver is an '02 Cavalier with 38k miles on it, and I plan on keeping that.

I think I'm going to go for another car I found local and work on it. My dad has offered to help me do a complete rebuild if I am to buy a classic American car, and though it's not so classic, he has agreed to help on a '97 SVT Cobra.

Opinions?

It's in great drivable shape at the moment, just has 82k miles on it, and with some work, I'm hoping to milk a little more power out of it. It's manual (my first manual car :3 though I learned on a VR6, so I can drive it with a fair amount of ease even starting off), and may eventually become a daily driver if gas gets low again.

Either way - Cobras are legendary, and if I could park one in my driveway (despite my previous shown hatred of new Mustangs), I think that would be one of the coolest things ever.


It is an SVT though.

How does this compare to the Shelby equivalent?

How much would it cost to combat the effects of high mileage and get one running like it would off the showroom floor, you think? I know little about Ford engines or their parts price. My dad is an ex-Ford mechanic though, and is a huge cobra fan.

Also, pics of a '94 Cobra nearby:
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2009/4/15/261/181/11242575251.261181903.IM1.11.565x421_A.562x421.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2009/5/4/261/181/11477702843.261181903.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.j pg

[erocker]

What price for the 97 Cobra? If you want some classic muscle, look for a 67 Fastback and resto-mod it! I've driven 97 Cobras and a few 67 Mustangs. The rumblings of the older ones are just too awesome to pass up.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

The 97 Cobras are running at 5-8k. I'm sure 5 more k$ would go a long way in restoring it to the newer condition (fixing worn engine components, any suspension/brake work that needs done).

They're less classic but they're selling for chump change at the moment!

Seems almost too good to pass up!

I would definitely replace the rear bumper that says Mustang with one that says Cobra though!

[LittleLizard]

get that cobra. The mustangs are my always favorite cars since i played with the fastback on midtown madness 2.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

get that cobra. The mustangs are my always favorite cars since i played with the fastback on midtown madness 2.

The one plus about the modern ones is that they are way less likely to rest and are a lot more low-profile than the old ones...

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Also, the catch for my parents letting me get a second car to park at the house was that I get a job for the summer and maybe during school.

Places I applied:
Auto Zone
Advance Auto Parts
O'Reilly Auto Parts
Carquest Auto Parts
...and pretty much every other small auto parts store :P

Hopefully one of them is looking for cheap teen lackey labor and provides an employee discount :P:P:P

[LittleLizard]

Also, the catch for my parents letting me get a second car to park at the house was that I get a job for the summer and maybe during school.

Places I applied:
Auto Zone
Advance Auto Parts
O'Reilly Auto Parts
Carquest Auto Parts
...and pretty much every other small auto parts store :P

Hopefully one of them is looking for cheap teen lackey labor and provides an employee discount :P:P:P

good luck with that. remember, my votes go for the jetta as is new and thus, little chance to break, warranty, cheap tuning bla bla bla or the mustang as are GREAT FUCKING CARS

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Also, what does GN think about GTs?

0-60 in under a second slower, but likely easier to get parts for and the likes...

Should I buy a low mileage Cobra or lower mileage GT, essentially?
This is the first time I've really looked at Fords as a potential buyer... there are some AWESOME values to be had.

[LittleLizard]

Also, what does GN think about GTs?

0-60 in under a second slower, but likely easier to get parts for and the likes...

Should I buy a low mileage Cobra or lower mileage GT, essentially?
This is the first time I've really looked at Fords as a potential buyer... there are some AWESOME values to be had.

by gt u mean regular mustang gt, right? If so, not, go for the cobra. Higher resell value when they become a classic, more power and a monster. The only pro of the GT is that the pieces are easier to find and cheaper.

[1Kurgan1]

Also, what does GN think about GTs?

0-60 in under a second slower, but likely easier to get parts for and the likes...

Should I buy a low mileage Cobra or lower mileage GT, essentially?
This is the first time I've really looked at Fords as a potential buyer... there are some AWESOME values to be had.

Cobra, yes you are going to be modding either way you go, but the Cobra 4V motor is a much more wicked sound, and the resale value. Gotta say I'm pretty jealous how do you have such a new car and money for a Cobra as a teenage :O

Also maybe think about something older, I'm not sure exactly how much you or your dad know about resto or how far you want to get into it. But it is a lot of fun, and if you looking for something in the end where you can step back and say "I built that" then I would highly suggest something older. Old cars can look very nice and sleak (low profile) if you pick the right cars.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Yeah, I know they can be, but I live in an area that is heavily salted and I want it to be drivable from the start. That was originally my first plan... but it all added up being wayyyyyy too expensive at the drawing board.

How I got the money? For two years in high school I worked my ass off in a napkin factory, then got a scholarship that left me with thousands of dollars after tuition and books were paid. Instead of spending that on a filthy dorm with some annoying punk, I put it all into my hobbies :P

However, I think I'm gonna start with a GT, as I found one I can pay cash for and have money leftover, 53k miles, no problems at all.

What do the resident Mustang fans think about what to do to the beast? 5.4 second 0-60 will make it the second fastest thing I've ever drove, and the first manual transmission car I've ever owned (though I have driven manual before and know how).

It's also got a really nice interior for what it is!

Also note: I'm not pissing my entire savings away into this car, nor will it be my daily driver. I'm saving, slowly but surely. I applied for 6 jobs just yesterday alone. Insurance for an 18 year old in a nearly new GT will be wallet slaughter, so I'll need them :P Either way I can't wait to begin my first foray into American muscle!

[1Kurgan1]

What year GT is it, I would assume it's a 99+ as you said 5.4sec 0-60 and no way the doggy 96-98's would pull that off. If it's that new probably can't go wrong with 53k on it, just try and get them under book value, thats always my thing. MY car books at 5750 and I got it for $5500 with a few grand in mods already on it :D

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Ah I prefer to be the only one to touch my car, but yeah, it's an '00.

However as I'm likely working a few months before I go out and do the big purchase, I want to find an '05-'06 - mainly due to the availability of Roush parts.

I just saw online though that they also made Focus aftermarket equipment... I laughed.

[1Kurgan1]

I would prefer to be the only one to touch my car, but here's the thing about buying the parts yourself. Here's what my car has

S1X cam/105#lb springs/Install kit - $410
Modular Pulley Kit/Modular 3.5" Pulleu - $150
GMPP Handling Kit w/adjustable struts - $750
12" Brake Upgrade - $210
2 pillar gauge pod/Aeroforce scan gauge/boost/volt/oil - $510
Shift Kit - $30
TOG Headers/TOG DP/SLP Catback - $1000
FWI - $50
HP PCM - $100
MSD Wires - $120
42.5# Injectors $230
GenV Blower ($500 used mostly) and L32 motor from an 04 - Just counting blower price as motor only has stronger connecting rods and doesn't add power.

Price Total - $3960, car book $5750, car purchase $5500. So if I bought it for book stock it would destroy my wallet to get those parts. ($9710 adding book value and parts together!) And thats only for performance parts, has alot of other things that almost actually bring aftermarket value up to what the book value is on the car itself :O

If you can pick one up with mild work done I would highly suggest it as it will save you time/money. This isn't a resto build so putting every wrench turning moment into it isn't going to mean as much as you aren't rebuilding it from the ground up.

I wouldn't worry so much about Roush parts though, they are a great company and innovators, but you are paying for the name, as you would Lingenfelter. Just open up a Jegs or Summit, they have a slew of 4.6L parts that will get you moving just as fast for a lot less. :)

[LittleLizard]

ohhh, i love see 2 person talk about cars.

[1Kurgan1]

Oh I forgot to mention, if you really are looking for an 05 - 06, I revert back to my, look for a C5 Vette. Going to take a lot of money to make a Stang hang with a Vette in corners, Vette will be a touch faster, and LS motors are beasty, plus it should hold it's value a bit better.

ohhh, i love see 2 person talk about cars.

:confused: Then join in? You posted earlier, lol.

[LittleLizard]

Oh I forgot to mention, if you really are looking for an 05 - 06, I revert back to my, look for a C5 Vette. Going to take a lot of money to make a Stang hang with a Vette in corners, Vette will be a touch faster, and LS motors are beasty, plus it should hold it's value a bit better.



:confused: Then join in? You posted earlier, lol.

if u name the parts of a car in spanish i understand but in english not :(

[JC316]

Mustang Cobra's are bad ass. The 94 up there has 240HP, which IMO is pretty damned underrated. My 96 GT makes "215" HP and runs to 60MPH in around 6 seconds without speed shifting or anything. If I tried I could get that down to a 5.7 0-60 and with minimal mods get it to 5 seconds.

[Wile E]

How about buying an 87-93 Mustang LX coupe 4cyl with a perfectly solid body and shitty motor for a few hundred dollars, and spend $8k on it, throwing a good drivetrain and suspension under it? :D

[1Kurgan1]

How about buying an 87-93 Mustang LX coupe 4cyl with a perfectly solid body and shitty motor for a few hundred dollars, and spend $8k on it, throwing a good drivetrain and suspension under it? :D

He's in the rust belt, I'm not exactly where, but I live in Minnesota. And thats rust belt country, a 4cyl Mustang rust free up here is a legend, heck even an 5.0 is.

[JC316]

He's in the rust belt, I'm not exactly where, but I live in Minnesota. And thats rust belt country, a 4cyl Mustang rust free up here is a legend, heck even an 5.0 is.

Come to Texas. I have seen multiple 4cyl stangs in great shape go for dirt cheap around here.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

How about buying an 87-93 Mustang LX coupe 4cyl with a perfectly solid body and shitty motor for a few hundred dollars, and spend $8k on it, throwing a good drivetrain and suspension under it? :D

Erm, because they're fugly? :P

But I'm quite content with the modern 'Stangs.

http://www.hurricaneimports.com/images/2005-mustang.jpg
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/5-0l-talk/27397d1178562226-please-post-examples-fox-body-mustangs-lemans-stripes-gt94.jpg

But yeah, most Fox bodies are ragged out and thrashed if not eaten full of rust.

On that note... I see there's a good market for Alfa Spiders.

Wonder how an engine/tranny swap would go...

I do love how they position their shifter angled and higher up:
http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/06/alfa-interior.jpg

[1Kurgan1]

Alfas a pretty small car, would matter what you wanna swap, but gotta ask why, those cars look horrible :p

Come to Texas. I have seen multiple 4cyl stangs in great shape go for dirt cheap around here.

Yeah, someday I wanna make a trip down south and grab a ton of rust free cars for the hell of it, just wish I could do that up here. But I would be going down there for cars older than that, plus not a big Mustang person.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

When you were raised around Fiats, Peugots, and Renaults, Alfa Romeos look beautiful! :P

But yeah, doing such a thing stateside would be WAY too costly and difficult, I am nearly sure of it.

Either way, how easy is rustproofing a car anyways? How often do you have to coat it with rustproof finish?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/Slash4040/ronnyscar.jpg

I want my uncle's Fiat :o At least I think it's a Fiat. It has the rear end of one and the front end of a 1975 Toyota Celica!

Speaking of that, identify my uncle's ricerocket and you'll get much thanks!

Either way, this is day 3 of being set on a 'stang GT, so maybe I will actually stick with this one for once! Here we are, hump day! I just pray I see no old Maseratis about town today :P

[1Kurgan1]

See that doesn't look too bad, but the Alfa's just look like a stretched Beetle convertible. But rust proofing a car is meh, there are a lot of methods, but I haven't ever seen any that really work all that well.

Best method is to park the car for the winter and make sure to fix any scratches that go down to the metal.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs39/f/2008/344/c/9/I_jizz_in_my_pants_by_HOLIMOUNT.jpg

Was my face when I saw:
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/jonfiveorod/ford-mustang-gt-500-1.jpg

I just got a job interview too, so perhaps I WILL be buying a Cobra :P

It was that same exact colour scheme... So flawless.

It was the most beautiful looking and sounding thing ever.

[1Kurgan1]

Cobras are almost 50k and I wouldn't imagine under 30k used, you must have a ball of cash to be tossing around, lol. And nice pic, thats a great music video. Would be a killer ride though, but I'm still going to whisper vette in your ears the higher the price gets :D Get the handling and the speed! As 04 ZO6's are only around 22 - 25k atm, and 06 Cobras are about 36 - 40k, then toss and SC on and smile.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Cobras are almost 50k and I wouldn't imagine under 30k used, you must have a ball of cash to be tossing around, lol. And nice pic, thats a great music video. Would be a killer ride though, but I'm still going to whisper vette in your ears the higher the price gets :D Get the handling and the speed! As 04 ZO6's are only around 22 - 25k atm, and 06 Cobras are about 36 - 40k, then toss and SC on and smile.

Lightly used older Cobras are well within 20k and less:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-MUSTANG-COBRA-SUPERCHARGED-YELLOW-BLK-LOW-MLS-WOW_W0QQitemZ250433168565QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Car s_Trucks?hash=item3a4efae4b5&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1308

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SVT-COBRA-CONVERTIBLE-Excellent-Condition_W0QQitemZ170337352582QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ US_Cars_Trucks?hash=item27a8e5bb86&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1318

I know it's no Shelby but it's definitely beast.

Also, insurance on a Z06 for an 18 year old... Yeeeeeeeeeah.

I'm pretty sure the Cobra would be affordable. I should actually check up on quotes for that. If not, I can always be a complete ricefag and buy the Cobra bumper and emblems for t3h lulz.

Also, I don't think handling matters, I live in the midwest, it's flat, there's nothing to build curves around.

I'll need a car that corners when I am in Germany :P Luckily I can rent a BMW 135i for cheap ;)

Porsche 911 would cost 4 grand for two weeks :(

[1Kurgan1]

Yeah the older Cobras will be considerably less, but a bit down on power and styling. I'm not sureo n insurance prices, but you could look at the newer non-ZO6's, since they are very close in performance with the LS2. A GTO or 2000ish F-Body also. Sorry really plugging the GM cars, but the LS motors are just flat out amazing.

Anyways here's a 05 Vette, 6spd, Targa, for 27k

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114408

or a wicked Caddy CTS-V for 21k

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113696

or holy crap I just found this, SC'd and built tranny GTO for 19.9k, too bad it's an auto

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113825

Either way any of the cars your looking at get my stamp of approval, V8 muscle is where it's at, going to be hard to make a bad choice with the cars you got in mind.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Ah, I love GM, I don't mind it a bit.

I considered them for the longest time, driven GM since my first car, but with the shape the company is in, and the fact that the only dealer I've ever had a good experience with service wise is shutting down, I'm going to steer clear of them for now.

Perhaps if they can bounce back before I buy, I will snag one :P

[1Kurgan1]

Yeah GM is tanking, but it isn't goign to effect that parts aftermarket or value, maybe value for newer non-performance cars. But the LS series has been in production since 97 and has been using in anything with a V8 application, trucks, cars, tricycles, you name it.

I've never bought a car from a dealership though as they are always looking for a profit and most people are just looking to break even.

But doubting they will be bouncing back soon, don't think they will die off as they are on the puppet strings of obama atm and they were a #1 company for a long time, and have a loyal base of customers, I don't think they will let a possible cash cow drop off the line like that.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

After seeing the webchat with the new CEO... I don't know if I'll ever buy another GM again.

[1Kurgan1]

lol, I'm just covering my eyes and ears with this bad economy and spending my money like normal. Everyones panicking, not spending money and really adding to the problems, not saying it's you your looking at throwing a lot of cash at a car, but just how I'm looking at it :p

[T3hPwn3r3r]

I agree completely.

It's not the company's fate, but its direction that I worry about.

Consumer confidence and continued levels of consumption are what drive a capitalism-based economy though. I'm spending more money than ever really.

[1Kurgan1]

Yep, I keep seeing all these people saying "the economy is going to shit I'm not going to spend a dime", I just want to say "thats a great idea lets all panic and blow the crap out of our own economy".

The direction of GM will be shaky though with them being a puppet, as they might have zero choice over what happens. If they drop the Corvette I might go head hunting.

[entropy13]

Would you be partial to some Japanese cars? An R32, R33 or R34 Nissan Skyline? XD

[T3hPwn3r3r]

1. I'm in America.
2. I'd never drive one of those rustbucket junkers.

I am the anti-rice of the world, really :P

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Yep, I keep seeing all these people saying "the economy is going to shit I'm not going to spend a dime", I just want to say "thats a great idea lets all panic and blow the crap out of our own economy".

The direction of GM will be shaky though with them being a puppet, as they might have zero choice over what happens. If they drop the Corvette I might go head hunting.

The one good news Fritz did provide was that as the V8 2 seater Corvette was indeed an American legend and even he owns one and loves it like a human baby - they will NOT be dropping the Corvette.

It's a true symbol of Americana, along with the Mustang.

But yeah, keep the Nissan and Toyotas out of my driveway, if I wanted an appliance I'd put my fridge on wheels.

[1Kurgan1]

Would you be partial to some Japanese cars? An R32, R33 or R34 Nissan Skyline? XD

I believe out of all of those models only the 2 door R32's are actually road legal in the US, as the others do not pass crash standard tests or some safety regulations. And even then a bone stocker R32 is going to rip your face off, a ton of faster cars with as much mod ability could be had for the price.

[Wile E]

I believe out of all of those models only the 2 door R32's are actually road legal in the US, as the others do not pass crash standard tests or some safety regulations. And even then a bone stocker R32 is going to rip your face off, a ton of faster cars with as much mod ability could be had for the price.

Actually, if you can find one, R32's can be had for under 20k. Considering their exclusivity, that's not a bad price.

Motorex imported R33's are also perfectly legal in the US.

It's the R34's that are a bit of a grey area, as Motorex fudged a lot of the paperwork and bribed some officials to get them pushed thru. The lid was blown off, and so, the R34's that were already registered, got to stay as such, but good luck to anyone that tries to buy one from one of the owners, and then register it in their name. At that point, the registration may be revoked.

[entropy13]

I should have noticed earlier you're a "Real American driver"

Hybrids for you then! lol

Get a Mustang or Corvette then, hopefully the latter, I prefer them myself. You can possibly find yourself some good deals after what has happened economically.

[1Kurgan1]

Actually, if you can find one, R32's can be had for under 20k. Considering their exclusivity, that's not a bad price.

Motorex imported R33's are also perfectly legal in the US.

It's the R34's that are a bit of a grey area, as Motorex fudged a lot of the paperwork and bribed some officials to get them pushed thru. The lid was blown off, and so, the R34's that were already registered, got to stay as such, but good luck to anyone that tries to buy one from one of the owners, and then register it in their name. At that point, the registration may be revoked.

Is it all of the R33's and R32's, I swore I heard that one of them had issues, can't remember if it was 2 doors or 4 doors. I know they are rare over here, but I couldn't ever justify spending 20k on an R32, a C5 vette would just be a better buy.

I had a friend that was based over in Japan I think he said he picked up his 4 door R32 for like $2,500 US, they go for like nothing over there. But he said his couldn't be brought back to the US and drive on roads. He might have been wrong though, not sure?

[ChromeDome]

get the NEW Jetta. its nice to have a new car. or the used Passat. if not too used

[T3hPwn3r3r]

I should have noticed earlier you're a "Real American driver"

Hybrids for you then! lol

Get a Mustang or Corvette then, hopefully the latter, I prefer them myself. You can possibly find yourself some good deals after what has happened economically.

Real American/German driver ;)

But I honestly would never touch a non-Mazda non-Subaru Asian car.

However, I have to put things on hold at the moment as I'll be leaving the country for about 6 out of the next 24 months and this will suck a lot of money out.

However I do have a new netbook, camera, and desktop coming in soon, so you guys all get sauce on that before I leave for the EU for the rest of the summer.

[Wile E]

Is it all of the R33's and R32's, I swore I heard that one of them had issues, can't remember if it was 2 doors or 4 doors. I know they are rare over here, but I couldn't ever justify spending 20k on an R32, a C5 vette would just be a better buy.

I had a friend that was based over in Japan I think he said he picked up his 4 door R32 for like $2,500 US, they go for like nothing over there. But he said his couldn't be brought back to the US and drive on roads. He might have been wrong though, not sure?

No, he's right. Only the Motorex imported Skylines are legal. You may be able to get an R32 legalized over here, but I doubt the 33 or 34.

[entropy13]

An advantage it seems, of being in an Asian country near enough Japan is that importing cars is quite easy, but expensive. The Skylines were easily available here, and the new GTR arrived quite quickly too, but they're not quite "mainstream" though, so people are going with the more common cars (over here anyway) like the Mazda RX-8, Impreza, Lancer Evo, Civic SiR...There's a Mitsubishi factory over here too, although it's more on trucks/buses production.

[cdawall]

you can get a cobalt SS for under 20K

[1Kurgan1]

Cobalt SS is a great price (as long as you don't get the 2.4L N/A) for a great car even though I never liked cavaliers, I will admit GM did something right with that car. But from everything he has said he is looking for better interior quality.

[Wile E]

Cobalt SS is a great price (as long as you don't get the 2.4L N/A) for a great car even though I never liked cavaliers, I will admit GM did something right with that car. But from everything he has said he is looking for better interior quality.

It's suspension isn't very refined compared to other options either.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

But it still posts a better time around the track than any other FWD under 50 grand available in America

[1Kurgan1]

It's suspension isn't very refined compared to other options either.

I'm not sure on that, that thing flies around a track, GM just takes odd methods, Corvettes still use leaf springs, lol. I would out my money on a Cobalt around a track over a GTI, granted the Cobalt is putting out a bit more power.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

The GTI has a better suspension, by miles, but not the power it needs.

That being said though, I'd call the GTI a better buy for the money. With the DSG it's fun as can be, and the manual gearbox is tip top. The Cobalt SS is less refined and more raw, if you're into that sort of thing.

[1Kurgan1]

Raw power is my friend, I like when you step on it, the car puts you back enough to ratchet the seatbelt a bit tighter so it's uncomfortable after you let off, lol.

[Wile E]

I'm not sure on that, that thing flies around a track, GM just takes odd methods, Corvettes still use leaf springs, lol. I would out my money on a Cobalt around a track over a GTI, granted the Cobalt is putting out a bit more power.

Yeah, it's all the extra power, stiff springs and sticky stock tires that gives it the edge. Give a better platform the same power, and it will embarrass the Cobalt around the track. It still uses a solid beam rear axle, for christ's sake. If they had just given it an independent suspension all the way around, it would automatically be bumped up a couple classes in potential. Again, this is a case of the GM bean counters making the decisions, and not the engineering department. This has been the problem with GM cars for a couple decades now. Come up with a spectacular engine, and put it in a less than impressive chassis. They need to get off that course, and start giving us some chassis worthy of the drivetrains they are designing.

[cdawall]

But it still posts a better time around the track than any other FWD under 50 grand available in America

better time around the track than alot of RWD cars as well like the 6.1L hemi powered challenger and 4.6L mustang

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Yeah, it's all the extra power, stiff springs and sticky stock tires that gives it the edge. Give a better platform the same power, and it will embarrass the Cobalt around the track. It still uses a solid beam rear axle, for christ's sake. If they had just given it an independent suspension all the way around, it would automatically be bumped up a couple classes in potential. Again, this is a case of the GM bean counters making the decisions, and not the engineering department. This has been the problem with GM cars for a couple decades now. Come up with a spectacular engine, and put it in a less than impressive chassis. They need to get off that course, and start giving us some chassis worthy of the drivetrains they are designing.

I disagree, if they were doing anything wrong it wouldn't be #1 :P

Compared to other stock cars in the price range, it can't be beaten.

I'm tempted to try and bring a Megane Sport engine home with me though and drop it in a Versa :P

[Wile E]

I disagree, if they were doing anything wrong it wouldn't be #1 :PNothing could be further from the truth. Especially in this class of car. This class of car ALWAYS come with a trade off of some sort. The Cobalt's is chassis and suspension design. They make up for it by using stiffer springs, stickier tires, and adding more power to get it around the track faster.

Other cars have a much better chassis, but sacrifice power to keep the costs within range.

And I'd like to see proof of it besting all other fwd cars around the track. I find it hard to believe it betters the MazdaSpeed3.

[cdawall]

Nothing could be further from the truth. Especially in this class of car. This class of car ALWAYS come with a trade off of some sort. The Cobalt's is chassis and suspension design. They make up for it by using stiffer springs, stickier tires, and adding more power to get it around the track faster.

Other cars have a much better chassis, but sacrifice power to keep the costs within range.

And I'd like to see proof of it besting all other fwd cars around the track. I find it hard to believe it betters the MazdaSpeed3.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/the_lightning_lap_2008_feature

[Wile E]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/the_lightning_lap_2008_featureFirst off, A bunch of magazine editors testing a car means nothing. You need professional drivers to maintain consistency. The C&D editors, while quite good as far as car editors go, do not qualify as such.

Second, no MazdaSpeed3. In fact, the only cars in the Cobalt's class were the Dodge Caliber SRT4 (which we all know is a joke), and the Volvo C30 T5.

3 different cars in the competition hardly constitutes the Cobalt being the fastest fwd car, especially when cornering is involved.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Actually, if you read the article, it says it beat the Speed3 by three seconds, also, the Nurburgring bench puts the Cobalt SS above the Speed3.

Speed3 is a great concept, great chassis, great engine, but not well implemented. Horrible torque steer and the likes.

[Wile E]

Actually, if you read the article, it says it beat the Speed3 by three seconds, also, the Nurburgring bench puts the Cobalt SS above the Speed3.

Speed3 is a great concept, great chassis, great engine, but not well implemented. Horrible torque steer and the likes.

I did read what I thought was the article, and I see no mention of the Speed?

And who was driving? I just don't buy it. I want to see the same professional max out both, not the C&D editors.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Click on the Cobalt's individual page. It's somewhere on there I believe.

...and don't get me wrong... the Speed3 is one Asian car I actually like, it is both utilitarian, sporty, AND stylish, something most Asian cars lack.

[Wile E]

Click on the Cobalt's individual page. It's somewhere on there I believe.

...and don't get me wrong... the Speed3 is one Asian car I actually like, it is both utilitarian, sporty, AND stylish, something most Asian cars lack.

Oh, tested on different years? Doesn't cut it. We all know how sensitive turbo cars can be to weather changes. These comparos need to be done by a pro, and in the same conditions to be accurate.

Not to mention, the Speed has both Traction control and stability assist. Did they shut those off for the hot laps? Leaving them on generally hurts lap times to a high degree.

There simply isn't enough consistency or info provided to have a definitive answer from the C&D tests. It's a bit like trying to pull definitive results from Top Gear's testing.

I'd still take the Cobalt over the Caliber tho. lol.

[1Kurgan1]

Problem with finding those results if finding someone to do them. I know a lot of people shoot down mag testing, but it is a good baseline, odds are you will never find a comparo of a profession driver driving both of those cars so really just gotta go with what you can get.

Either way almost any suspension can be made to work awesome with aftermarket parts, so really I like the trade off especially since it does handle so well out of the box, despite what methods they used.