GM Bankruptcy...

[FordGT90Concept]

So far...

Hummer: Sold to Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Company Ltd. of China
Story: GM to sell Hummer to Chinese company (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/ap_on_bi_ge/us_automakers)

Saturn: Sold to Penske Automotive Group
Story: GM to sell Saturn to Penske (http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/05/news/companies/saturn_penske/index.htm?cnn=yes)

Saab: Looking for a buyer (Koenigsegg, Renco Group, Fiat, and several Chinese companies expressed interest).

Pontiac: Phasing out by the end of 2010.
Press Release: Pontiac brand to be phased out as part of GM’s more aggressive restructuring efforts (http://www.pontiac.com/owners/pontiac-discontinued-statement/)


GM will be focusing on its "core" brands: Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC, and Buick.

I have not heard anything about GM's many other brands like Daewoo, Holden, and Wuling.


I will update this post when more news breaks.

[El Fiendo]

So will Hummer China continue to make Hummers for the US Military? Will Hummer keep being manufactured in the US? Probably doesn't matter as the US Military probably uses alot of stuff manufactured in China already.

Also, I thought Magna was supposed to be in on the Penske Saturn deal as a partnership. Are they officially only selling to Penske?

[FordGT90Concept]

That's what I was wondering. If that's the case, the Department of Defense needs to decide on a replacement ASAP.

From the sounds of it, Penske will own the "rights" to Saturn. GM will continue to produce some Saturn models under license from Penske. Are Saturns in NASCAR's future? :eek:

The article makes no mention of Magna so I'm guessing Magna was just one of many that showed interest in buying it. As far as I know Penske will own the whole thing.

[El Fiendo]

Well, I don't think Magna could have bought them solely, as franchise laws in various states will not allow car manufacturer to sell direct to consumers. That and I don't think Magna has any experience in retail.

Maybe China will start using Humvees in their military. Humvees with super efficient Honda motors. Don't the Armed Forces use some Tundras as it is?

[LittleLizard]

Why would koenigsegg want saab? If they want it to make cheap but damn good cars, this will be good. Otherwise terrible news.

[Wile E]

Why would koenigsegg want saab? If they want it to make cheap but damn good cars, this will be good. Otherwise terrible news.

Either for the engineering division, or for a tech that they developed that KS could put to use. I do recall seeing a variable compression tech that SAAB was working on a few years ago.

[FordGT90Concept]

Maybe China will start using Humvees in their military. Humvees with super efficient Honda motors. Don't the Armed Forces use some Tundras as it is?
Special Forces in Afghanistan use whatever they can find and apparently Toyota donated a lot of Tundras so that's what they got right now.

[3991v]

They should keep Pontiac, and phase out Cadillac.

[pepsi71ocean]

they need to phase out that crappy duramax engine and replace it with a real mans diesel.

And maybe they will get better MPG like my Cummins, 20MPG then i can pay less for Diesel again, YAY Solution for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

[ChromeDome]

i blame Bob Lutz

poophead

[FordGT90Concept]

Chysler was going to sellout to Fiat and now something is blocking that transaction (I didn't quite follow what that something was--something about three firms?).

[T3hPwn3r3r]

I wish Fiat, Alfa, and the rest of the European brands would sell over here.

I'd love to see SEAT, Renault, Citroen, Peugot, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Skoda and the likes all on US roads.
Beats lines of Toyotas, Nissans, and Kias.

[LittleLizard]

I wish Fiat, Alfa, and the rest of the European brands would sell over here.

I'd love to see SEAT, Renault, Citroen, Peugot, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Skoda and the likes all on US roads.
Beats lines of Toyotas, Nissans, and Kias.

+1 but skoda and citroen wont beat nissan. NEVER.

[Wile E]

I wish Fiat, Alfa, and the rest of the European brands would sell over here.

I'd love to see SEAT, Renault, Citroen, Peugot, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Skoda and the likes all on US roads.
Beats lines of Toyotas, Nissans, and Kias.Possibly in style and options, not in reliability, that's for sure.

[FordGT90Concept]

The only reason why there are lots of Nissan, Toyotas, Hondas, and Kias is because of relaxed trading laws with Japan and South Korea. Germany also has relaxed trading laws so there are quite a few BMW and Volkswagon dealers in the USA as well. Note that all three of those countries were once occupied by USA armed forces. :x

[yogurt_21]

Note that all three of those countries were once occupied by USA armed forces. :x

still have small bases open in germany and japan and of course a large presense in south korea.

pity those same laxed trade laws don't apply to the UK.

[Triprift]

Hows Detroit going since the announcement? I know the auto industry is king there.

[Deusxmachina]

http://mwcnews.net/content/view/30937&Itemid=1?ref=patrick.net

"Dimon is the CEO of JP Morgan Chase bank. While GM workers are losing their retirement health benefits, their jobs, their life savings; while shareholders are getting zilch and many creditors getting hosed, a few privileged GM lenders - led by Morgan and Citibank - expect to get back 100% of their loans to GM, a stunning $6 billion.

The way these banks are getting their $6 billion bonanza is stone cold illegal.

I smell a rat.

Stevie the Rat, to be precise. Steven Rattner, Barack Obama's 'Car Czar' - the man who essentially ordered GM into bankruptcy this morning.

When a company goes bankrupt, everyone takes a hit: fair or not, workers lose some contract wages, stockholders get wiped out and creditors get fragments of what's left. That's the law. What workers don't lose are their pensions (including old-age health funds) already taken from their wages and held in their name.

But not this time. Stevie the Rat has a different plan for GM: grab the pension funds to pay off Morgan and Citi.

Here's the scheme: Rattner is demanding the bankruptcy court simply wipe away the money GM owes workers for their retirement health insurance. Cash in the insurance fund would be replace by GM stock. The percentage may be 17% of GM's stock - or 25%. Whatever, 17% or 25% is worth, well ... just try paying for your dialysis with 50 shares of bankrupt auto stock.


Yet Citibank and Morgan, says Rattner, should get their whole enchilada - $6 billion right now and in cash - from a company that can't pay for auto parts or worker eye exams.

Preventive Detention for Pensions

So what's wrong with seizing workers' pension fund money in a bankruptcy? The answer, Mr. Obama, Mr. Law Professor, is that it's illegal."

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Possibly in style and options, not in reliability, that's for sure.

Yes, but if you're driving a Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, etc. - you're essentially driving a refrigerator.

[Wile E]

Yes, but if you're driving a Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Kia, etc. - you're essentially driving a refrigerator.

Yeah, but I'll enjoy driving that refrigerator practically forever, whereas your prettier Euro cars will be seeing the inside of the service station a hell of a lot more than my cars. Only young and/or stupid people pick looks over reliability.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Yeah, but I'll enjoy driving that refrigerator practically forever, whereas your prettier Euro cars will be seeing the inside of the service station a hell of a lot more than my cars. Only young and/or stupid people pick looks over reliability.

Actually, go look around for an old Renault Alpine or a Skoda Octavia - they last for fucking ever.

French, Czech, Spanish, and Italian autos have a bad reputation stateside - and I can tell you not all of them are dreadfully unreliable - MG and Rover maybe. Most of the bad stigma comes from "driving a pussy man's gay car with a gay ass little 1.2L 4 banger that only gets 68mpg" When my family came to the states in 92, our Renault lasted from 5 years previous to that, to 2001, putting on over 250,000 miles and being cheaper in the long run than our Thunderbird Super Coupe.

[Wile E]

Actually, go look around for an old Renault Alpine or a Skoda Octavia - they last for fucking ever.

French, Czech, Spanish, and Italian autos have a bad reputation stateside - and I can tell you not all of them are dreadfully unreliable - MG and Rover maybe. Most of the bad stigma comes from "driving a pussy man's gay car with a gay ass little 1.2L 4 banger that only gets 68mpg" When my family came to the states in 92, our Renault lasted from 5 years previous to that, to 2001, putting on over 250,000 miles and being cheaper in the long run than our Thunderbird Super Coupe.

No, those companies earned their stigma thru poor reliability. Especially the likes of Alfo and Renault. They failed over here due to their piss poor construction. Just because your family had a good one, or they made a handful of good models, doesn't mean they are a good brand.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

That's like saying because late 70s/early 80s American cars were shit they are now.

Also, it's Alfa ;)

The Renaults we got stateside were nothing like real Renaults, what we got were essentially AMX cars.

However we will see how new Fiats are here in the states since we're getting an Americanized 500 (guessing it'll be the same, but with a tuned up or higher tier engine)

[Wile E]

Even current Alfas are crap compared to the other options in their range. Mostly really good looking crap, but crap none the less. lol.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Says who? They've actually got quite the improving rep across the pond.

[Wile E]

Says who? They've actually got quite the improving rep across the pond.

Improving, but not yet good.

[FordGT90Concept]

Ford may be next:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/17/news/companies/ford/index.htm


Ford is still in a better position than GM or Chrysler was because of their superior vehicle offerings but a lot of debt they incured to weather the financial storm will have to be paid back. No one is going to lend them money now seeing what happened to Chrysler and GM.


$250 milion owed to other companies by GM are likely not to get paid:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/19/news/companies/gm_other_supplier/index.htm?cnn=yes

That includes $17 million to Hewlett Packard and $10.7 million to AT&T.


GM will still be launching the following models:
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/autos/0906/gallery.gm_bankruptcy_cars/index.html

Chevrolet Camaro
Pontiac Solstice Coupe
Chevrolet Equinox
GMC Terrain
Buick LaCrosse
Cadillac SRX
Cadillac CTS Sport Wagon

[Deusxmachina]

Ford may be next:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/17/news/companies/ford/index.htm

Ford is still in a better position than GM or Chrysler was because of their superior vehicle offerings but a lot of debt they incured to weather the financial storm will have to be paid back. No one is going to lend them money now seeing what happened to Chrysler and GM.


Thought I mentioned this but maybe not. Here and there, I talk to a big Ford plant manager guy. Last week, he said production is back to where it was before the meltdown. So, in his opinion, he's apparently very confident in the future of Ford. I'd ask him some more specific questions if I thought I'd have much use for the answers. :)

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Improving, but not yet good.

I'm still not sure who you're talking to.

Alfa Romeo's new models are excellent, as are Renault.

As for talking lowly on Skoda and SEAT, they're essentially rebadged Audi/VW.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Ford may be next:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/17/news/companies/ford/index.htm


Ford is still in a better position than GM or Chrysler was because of their superior vehicle offerings but a lot of debt they incured to weather the financial storm will have to be paid back. No one is going to lend them money now seeing what happened to Chrysler and GM.


$250 milion owed to other companies by GM are likely not to get paid:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/19/news/companies/gm_other_supplier/index.htm?cnn=yes

That includes $17 million to Hewlett Packard and $10.7 million to AT&T.


GM will still be launching the following models:
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/autos/0906/gallery.gm_bankruptcy_cars/index.html

Chevrolet Camaro
Pontiac Solstice Coupe
Chevrolet Equinox
GMC Terrain
Buick LaCrosse
Cadillac SRX
Cadillac CTS Sport Wagon
I'd buy the hell out of the Terrain.

Utilitarian, yet economical.

[FordGT90Concept]

The Terrain looks identical to the Equinox to me.


Thought I mentioned this but maybe not. Here and there, I talk to a big Ford plant manager guy. Last week, he said production is back to where it was before the meltdown. So, in his opinion, he's apparently very confident in the future of Ford. I'd ask him some more specific questions if I thought I'd have much use for the answers. :)
It's good they're selling again but I doubt that plant manger knows Ford's corporate bottomline (all the mortgages that are coming due). I mean, if Ford doesn't start running in the black soon, we have to assume in a few years they could be declaring bankruptcy too.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

It is, technically, but very rugged in styling. The Equinox is kinda fugly, IMO

[Wile E]

I'm still not sure who you're talking to.

Alfa Romeo's new models are excellent, as are Renault.

As for talking lowly on Skoda and SEAT, they're essentially rebadged Audi/VW.

And how long have these new Alfas and Renaults been out to prove their reliability?

Wasn't focusing so much on Seat and Skoda.

But at any rate, none of them are still as reliable as the average Japanese car.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

As I said in another thread, longevity of a car can be factored between a lot of things - including how well the car is taken care of.

The new VWs are very well engineered, they seem to have a knack for fixing problems, and I've seen several old European cars including Renaults (ours alone was high mileage, I think around 240km on the ticker?), Mercs, Bimmers, and VWs with well over 200,000 miles on them. Even old ones, and this goes doubly for Mercedes.

W124 - unbreakable.
t
Either way, I find the new 500 highly attractive and can't wait to see Italian cars on our roads. Also, seeing as their cheaper cars are competitively priced - we should be prices in general lower with the addition of Fiat, Alfa, and Lancia.

[erocker]

'08 Jetta is in my shop today. Guess why?

[FordGT90Concept]

Blown engine? Transmission fell out?

[erocker]

Blown engine? Transmission fell out?

Lol, no. Electrical problems. If I had a nickel for every VW I've seen on the road with messed up lights/electical I'd be rich. Luckily the car is still under warranty and I directed the customer to the nearest VW dealer.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

'08 Jetta is in my shop today. Guess why?

You see that in a lot of other cars too, my brother's 09 Corolla has been nothing but trouble, including a fuel leak after 1500 miles of being on the road, as have our 2 Chryslers (Pacifica and a Durango)

How many Fords are in your shop?

How many Nissans?

How many Jeeps?

[erocker]

You see that in a lot of other cars too, my brother's 09 Corolla has been nothing but trouble, including a fuel leak after 1500 miles of being on the road, as have our 2 Chryslers (Pacifica and a Durango)

How many Fords are in your shop?

How many Nissans?

How many Jeeps?

Oh, I get all types in my shop. I do see this on other cars too sure, but not nearly as much as Volkswagen. I'm not ripping VW I actually like them, I just wish they would learn from their previous mistakes in the electrical department. Year after year it's the same shit. Hell, my 93 Golf never had a single problem for the 140,000 miles I put on it. Good call on the Jeeps, that would be the vehicle (POS vehicle) most likely to be in my shop.

[T3hPwn3r3r]

Yeah, we regret dealing with Chrysler, period, and until they make headway, won't likely buy from them again. We've owned 3 of their vehicles total, only 1 was worth the price.

But with the Fiat merger I'm really interested in seeing what they can pull out.

[FordGT90Concept]

I think Chrysler is cursed. They haven't done well since the 1950's. They'll probably end up dragging Fiat down with them like they did Daimler.

[Wile E]

That's my guess. Chrysler products are all garbage.