Windows Phone 8

[FordGT90Concept]

Known changes from Windows 7.5:
-Same Kernel as Windows 8 for desktops/laptops/tablets. This means application compatibility with a simple rebuild.
-Multi-core support.
-Multiple screen resolution support (currently only 480x800).
-Skype app.
-Integrated with Windows 8. Zune software no longer necessary.
-Internet Explorer 10 Mobile (can compress data to save on bandwidth).
-Near field communication support for instant transactions.
-Custom skin support in case you don't like the default, all-business skin.

Info about it as well as updates for Android and iPhone coming in June.

[remixedcat]

custom skins... like how droid has it???

[FordGT90Concept]

Considering how different the UIs are, I doubt any comparison can be made.

Details are sketchy on what that actually means. Some info here but not much:
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Microsoft-to-hold-meeting-about-Windows-Phone-customization_id29247

[remixedcat]

you know how samsung has touchwiz moto's got the blur, and HTC has sense...

[Wile E]

Meh, I won't get excited until they prove to me they finally figured out how to code a phone OS. All previous attempts have been utter shit.

[FordGT90Concept]

Eh? What do you mean?

[Wile E]

What do you mean what do I mean?

[FordGT90Concept]

Ever trying Windows Phone 7.5? Best phone OS I've seen and I'm not alone in this. Don't believe me, do your own research. Most subjective comparisons have Windows Phone 7.5 coming out on top.

Here's a good video but it is kind of long:
rJBGB5H5n94


And now the Lumia 900 (fantastic phone) dropped from $99 w/ two-year contract to $49 (http://www.informationweek.com/news/mobility/smart_phones/232901427). Nothing beats it at that price point. Few competed with it at $99.

you know how samsung has touchwiz moto's got the blur, and HTC has sense...
Uh, the GUI is intregral to the OS, not some code slapped on top of the OS to distinguish your product from your gaggle of competitors. It is tile-based and not dissimilar to Metro. I can't see Microsoft abandoning that because it is what makes Windows Phone stand out from the rest (really use to use with touch devices). This is why it isn't very clear what exactly the manufacturers are demanding.

[Wile E]

I have tried it. It sucks. Less apps, less customization, requires Zune software.

It's a piece of shit.

[FordGT90Concept]

Unless you use really obscure apps, it's either built in or available on Windows Phone. More is not always better.

The Zune software requirement is going away in Windows Phone/Windows 8.

Android is an iOS clone with customization features. Windows Phone is its own thing, designed completely around small touch screens.

[Wile E]

I use really obscure apps. I also like to tweak. More is absolutely better.

We were talking about 7.5. Removing it for 8 only takes away one bad point so far.

Designed around small touch screens? Are you fucking stupid or just been living under a rock for the past 5 years or so? What do you think Android and iOS are written (and pretty damn well optimized) for?

You have clearly not test driven any iPhones or Android handsets for any appreciable length of time.

[FordGT90Concept]

It isn't clear what is going to change in Windows 8. They might just unlock it like Android is so your desktop/laptop/tablet can work as one with your Windows Phone 8. We'll find out more in June.

Windows Phone 7 already passed up 50,000 apps (http://technorati.com/technology/article/over-50000-apps-now-available-in/) and that was just in 6 months. Developers love coding for Microsoft operating systems so it's just a matter of demand which, if Lumia 900 sales are anything to go by (http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+Phones+First+Hit+Nokia+Lumia+900+LTE+Sells +Out/article24476.htm), demand is growing rapidly.

Windows Phone keeps all user elements large so they are easy to touch/swipe. It also minimizes clutter by making larger applications handle more data efficiently (e.g. the People hub). Not to mention, the live data on tiles so you can see everything you want to know without touching anything. These are smart changes directed at usability on small touch screens.

Android and iOS are basically their computer brethren, full-screened with a touch interface. Nothing innovative.

[Wile E]

50k is a drop in a bucket.

There is nothing innovative about big buttons. And Android also has fully customizable live "tiles". Nothing new there either. You can even get big ones.

And I prefer smaller buttons. I can get more in the same amount of space that way, and I have absolutely no usability problems. Not to mention both OSes run just fine, despite your insistence that it actually matters what they chose for their code base. It doesn't matter. All that matters is the results. Which speak for themselves.

Windows phone is just as unoriginal. And it's still a piece of shit. Maybe 8 will change that, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Steevo]

Doesn't have eye candy? I don't know what eye candy he is referring to, the android face unlock, and many other features make it much better than the competition, and considering he uploaded it almost a year ago, its not even up to date.

[FordGT90Concept]

Everything, even check boxes, is animated on Windows Phone.

Android unlocks the same way iPhone does. On Windows Phone, the face shows who is calling, what time it is, the date, any missed calls, if you have data service and the strength, if you are connected to a wireless network and the strength, battery power, if the phone is silenced, information about a received text, and to unlock it, you slide that whole animated screen up and off the screen. To shut down (hold the power button for 5 seconds), you slide it from the half-way point down.

[Wile E]

Everything, even check boxes, is animated on Windows Phone.

Android unlocks the same way iPhone does. On Windows Phone, the face shows who is calling, what time it is, the date, any missed calls, if you have data service and the strength, if you are connected to a wireless network and the strength, battery power, if the phone is silenced, information about a received text, and to unlock it, you slide that whole animated screen up and off the screen. To shut down (hold the power button for 5 seconds), you slide it from the half-way point down.

All also possible on Android.

So, have you actually used any Android devices for long enough to get to know it, or are you pulling garbage out of your ass again?

[FordGT90Concept]

Did I say Android couldn't with some third-party mod? No, I said Windows Phone 7 has all of that standard. Good luck finding a mod that works as well and is as full-featured as Windows Phone 7's though. It's integral to the Windows Phone 7 operating system.

[WhiteLotus]

Launcher 7 (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Launcher%207&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=GoWmT4uRIoqa8gPgsKDZBA&biw=1606&bih=965&sei=HIWmT6vZAsne8APF-czqBA)

[Steevo]

Your right, who would want anything different than what they good company provides, blessed be to heaven our rations of chocolate have been increase also, double good........


http://www.theandroidsoul.com/go-launcher-for-android-a-new-and-fresh-home-replacement-app/

2010 Huh....obviously they stole all these ideas from Windows.

http://www.google.com/search?q=LauncherPro&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=Io6mT5G7NsLQ2wWu6MSmAg&biw=1472&bih=758&sei=So6mT9feKqPY2gWD17GmAg

[FordGT90Concept]

Launcher 7 (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Launcher%207&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=GoWmT4uRIoqa8gPgsKDZBA&biw=1606&bih=965&sei=HIWmT6vZAsne8APF-czqBA)
Ahahaha! Cloned, I knew it! (toast) It only scatches the surface of the Metro UI though.


http://www.theandroidsoul.com/go-launcher-for-android-a-new-and-fresh-home-replacement-app/
By their own admission, that one clones iPhone


2010 Huh....obviously they stole all these ideas from Windows.
Windows Phone 7 was paper-launched February 15, 2010. It officially launched in October/Novemeber 2010. It's development started in 2004.


http://www.google.com/search?q=LauncherPro&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=Io6mT5G7NsLQ2wWu6MSmAg&biw=1472&bih=758&sei=So6mT9feKqPY2gWD17GmAg
Most of those look a lot like iOS.

[Steevo]

Most every phone has numbers too. Damn the fucking hippiez, we should patent that.

[twilyth]

Microsoft wanted to simplify the interface and try to be more like Apple. But for some reason, they decided to target the 18-36 year old Neanderthal market.

Exactly how they imagined that playing out, I'm still not quite sure.

[FordGT90Concept]

They tried to design the phone and operating system in a way that would differentiate their product from Android and iPhone. When you go to a store selling smart phones, Windows Phone does stand out from Android and iOS because of the UI so I think they succeeded. The question that remains is: is this what the market wants? It's too soon to tell.

[Wile E]

Fuck no it isn't. It looks like a phone OS Leapfrog would make. The cow says moooooo.

And I PREFER 3rd party mods, because then I'm not locked down to what's handed to me stock. I want my phone my way, not the way MS wants me to have it.

Windows Phone is still a piece of shit.

[Hate_Camel]

Ford I'm geniunely curious as to how you do not realize that windows phone is cahbage?

[FordGT90Concept]

It does everything I expect it to (weather RADARs, email, text messages, phone calls, fuel prices, take pictures/video on demand, and sharing lists) and then some.

[Wile E]

It does everything I expect it to (weather RADARs, email, text messages, phone calls, fuel prices, take pictures/video on demand, and sharing lists) and then some.

Then you apparently don't expect very much for your phone. Congrats, Windows Phone was invented for people like you that want a dumbed down experience.

[FordGT90Concept]

Why would I? It's a fucking phone. :rolleyes:

We got computers to handle everything else.

[Wile E]

Why would I? It's a fucking phone. :rolleyes:

We got computers to handle everything else.

Yeah, and I carry my main one in my pocket.

[FordGT90Concept]

Good for you, not that I care.

[Wile E]

Exactly. Which is why you like Windows Phone so much. Because you don't care what the hardware is ACTUALLY capable of.

[FordGT90Concept]

I haven't found anything the hardware is incapable of doing.

[Wile E]

And if you are using Windows on it, you haven't fully realized it's potential either.

I can literally use my phone as a desktop with an external HDMI capable monitor and a BT keyboard/mouse.

[FordGT90Concept]

Ackward that Windows Phone 7.5 doesn't have a Bluetooth HID. No mention whether or not it will be in Windows Phone 8.

I can't see Microsoft ever putting HDMI on Windows Phone and I don't blame them. That's a feature very, very few people use. If they did add something, I suspect it will be a mini DisplayPort.


Edit: None of the people I recommended Windows Phone to will ever use either feature even if it were available.

[Steevo]

They will not use it as it isn't avaipable and they don't know it.

I am getting my usb-hdmi adapter as I can watch crackle on my spare monitor, or hulu, or MX video play movies I load, or show others the 1080 movies i take with it.

I can connect to my home PC through a VPN or remote desktop and have a portable PC. Or ppay GTA3 .

Its more of a question of what can I NOT do. And there isnt much.

[FordGT90Concept]

Again, they have computers with many times the power of a smart phone, 15"+ screens, keyboard/mice attached. Why would they take the time to bother with a smartphone when that is available?

It can't do DirectX accelerated SilverLight. Yes, there's Moonlight but its development has stalled largely because of the limitations of OpenGL.

[theJesus]

Ford, a laptop doesn't fit in your pocket.

[FordGT90Concept]

Nor does my server. It's a matter of access. Data I need with me all the time goes on the smartphone (like contact information). Data I need access when I'm running specific programs (like Visual Studio or Skyrim) goes on the desktop/laptop. Data I need safe and secure goes on the server (like resumes, passwords, and other sensitive information). I don't have information available if it not necessary. For example, why would I have application source code in a phone that is incapable of compiling it and painful to modify it? Likewise, why I would I put weather RADAR information on my server when it would be forgotten and just waste space?

Why are we even talking about this? This thread should be dead until June. :p

[theJesus]

Well, I would personally love to have a smart phone for work, because there are a lot of things I use my laptop for while I'm working and it's a pain in the ass to have to keep running back and forth between my work area and the office (where I keep the laptop most of the time so it doesn't get damaged or stolen and so it can charge).

edit: It would be great if I could get a phone that had an ethernet port too and just ran Windows 7 Pro

[FordGT90Concept]

Sounds to me like you should be looking at a tablet. Problem is, Windows 7 is not designed to be used on tablets (good luck hitting the start button). Windows 8 should expand the possibilities.

[theJesus]

Sounds to me like you should be looking at a tablet. Problem is, Windows 7 is not designed to be used on tablets (good luck hitting the start button). Windows 8 should expand the possibilities.
Yeah, I've considered a tablet . . . but that still doesn't fit in my pocket lol.

[FordGT90Concept]

Well too bad. :p

[theJesus]

You gotta remember I install shit for retail locations, some of which aren't in very good areas. If I set a laptop or a tablet down on the counter to do something and divert my attention for even just a quick moment, there's a good chance somebody will snag it and run.

Hell, I've even gotta be careful with my tools lol

[FordGT90Concept]

Hell, I've even gotta be careful with my tools lol
That happens everywhere, all the time. :(

[Steevo]

Sounds to me like you should be looking at a tablet. Problem is, Windows 7 is not designed to be used on tablets (good luck hitting the start button). Windows 8 should expand the possibilities.

7 Supports multi-touch and is used in embedded applications.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/features/touch

It actually would work with tablets, or flip style laptops, or actual touchscreens. One of the early beta's of it was the ability to use NFD and or bluetooth with touchscreen to transfer files off say your phone or camera by setting it on the table/surface and then "grabbing" the file box that popped up.

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=407&name=Tablet-PCs

They were (still are) too expensive and many had reliability issues so few were or have been sold. I wanted one till I learned of the failure rate. But $999 for one with a keyboard and only 1.5" thick is OK.

[FordGT90Concept]

Even on my 24" screen, the start button is about half an inch in diameter. You need a stylus to do anything in the task bar on the <12" screens tablets are available with. This is why Windows 8 has Metro--so the same OS can be used for laptops, desktops, tablets, and even phones.

They don't sell well because people never did like using styluses.


FYI, you're looking at the wrong category. "Tablet PC" is a hybrid laptop/tablet design. I'm talking about real tablets which are reasonably priced:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100013681+600004968&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&IsNodeId=1&Subcategory=2557&description=&hisInDesc=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&AdvancedSearch=1&srchInDesc=

[remixedcat]

Again, they have computers with many times the power of a smart phone, 15"+ screens, keyboard/mice attached. Why would they take the time to bother with a smartphone when that is available?

It can't do DirectX accelerated SilverLight. Yes, there's Moonlight but its development has stalled largely because of the limitations of OpenGL.

nobody cares about silverlight

[Hate_Camel]

nobody cares about silverlight
I fucking hate silverlight, it's such a resource hog. Can't even watch Netflix on the netbook.

There's no reason for it to exist, HTML 5 should be the standard.

[FordGT90Concept]

HTML5 has still not been standardized. Silverlight is.

Silverlight isn't necessarily a resource hog--no more so than applications that do similar functions.

[remixedcat]

I fucking hate silverlight, it's such a resource hog. Can't even watch Netflix on the netbook.

There's no reason for it to exist, HTML 5 should be the standard.

another reason I just watch it on the xbox the netflix and microsoft fucked that up... fuck metro and this new dashboard shit. microsoft needs to leave it the hell alone.


I liked the original interface better. it wasnt bloated and cornea searingly bright. on my tv the new dashboard's white menus about blind me in contrast to the dark colors of most games... I mean WTF was MS thinking with the UI design? don't they know that most gamers play dark games in dark rooms... arrrg.

hell I gotta have someone else work the menus for me most of the damn time becuase it hurts my eyes.

[FordGT90Concept]

Everyone hated Windows Vista when it came out too. Very little changed in 7 and everyone loved it. Windows 8 adds Metro capabilities on top of 7 and everyone complains. My conclusion: people don't know what they want. Metro is born out of necessity (touch capabilities). Yes, it's different but basically what you're asking Microsoft to do is outright give up. They are doing what is right for the industry because if they don't, Windows will become a footnote in history. Yes, some things can be improved but Metro is the future, like it or not.

Case in point: get a touch screen monitor, unplug your mouse and keyboard, and try to use Windows 7. You'll note there are serious design flaws. All the buttons are too small to push, there is no support for resizing, and right-click? Too bad. Windows 7 supports those touch screens but they realized then and there that major changes had to be made to make Windows usuable with touch interfaces. Metro was born.

If you use a keyboard/mouse, I'm sure metro is a few clicks away from being disabled. It has to be there for those that need it.


In terms of brightness, tried adjusting brightness? Games that have lighting as an important element to the game usually have separate brightness settings.

Also, you should never watch anything in a dark room--it's hard on the eyes because whenever the scene turns dark, your eyes switch from cones to rods and whenever a bright scene comes up again, they adjust from rods to cones. It can take 20-30 minutes for the rods to fully activate.

[remixedcat]

it's more immersive in a dark room.... a reason why theaters are dark and not bright... colors look more rich in dark rooms, it's more natural, etc...

this is why gamers game in dark rooms. it helps you focus more on the game and MS failed when they designed the UI... of course they design it in bright as hell rooms with 10 florescent lights and white bare walls.

and no I don't care to constantly need to jack with my brightness settings all the time. I don't think anyone should be expected to....

[FordGT90Concept]

There's ambient lights on in theaters, it is not pitch black.

I'm a gamer, and I play in a moderately lit room (dark enough there's no glare, bright enough to see spiders on the walls).

[remixedcat]

[QUOTE=FordGT90Concept;206371]There's ambient lights on in theaters, it is not pitch black.



not enough to balance the cornea searing white UI

[FordGT90Concept]

Depends on the movie but yes, virtually all movies have the brightness turned down during production.

Isn't there an alternative skin option? Even Streets & Trips has a night mode. :p

[remixedcat]

Depends on the movie but yes, virtually all movies have the brightness turned down during production.

Isn't there an alternative skin option? Even Streets & Trips has a night mode. :p

isn't that only for jtagged 360's??

[FordGT90Concept]

How would I know? Never owned an Xbox and never intend to. :p

Thread is getting off-topic yet again. :(

[remixedcat]

no it still is becuase windows 8 was the reason they pushed the damn crappy dashboard update.

[theJesus]

Everyone hated Windows Vista when it came out too. Very little changed in 7 and everyone loved it.
That's because Vista performed like shit and 7 doesn't.

[remixedcat]

and streets and trips is shit too.

[FordGT90Concept]

That's because Vista performed like shit and 7 doesn't.
Yeah, it does. Hardware improved substantially in that year because of rapid adoption of 1920x1080 resolution screens (which requires better integrated graphics--Vista set minimum graphics requirements for the first time and especially Intel wasn't prepared) and influx of dual-core and quad-core processors.

99% of it revolves around Aero's hardware requirements (graphics) and the most popular graphics chip (Intel GMA) being incapable of handling it. Today, you can't buy a new computer that can't run Aero.

Windows Vista raised the hardware bar and it took about 2 years for hardware manufacturers to catch up but, by then, Vista already had a bad reputation by name.


and streets and trips is shit too.
My dad (a career trucker) has used Garmin, PC Miler, Copilot 7, and two versions of Streets & Trips (I think 2005 and 2008). He liked Streets & Trips the best.

[helloWorld]

I can not stand using a computer in a dark room. The room must be pretty well lit in order for my eyes to not hurt.

[Wile E]

Again, they have computers with many times the power of a smart phone, 15"+ screens, keyboard/mice attached. Why would they take the time to bother with a smartphone when that is available?

It can't do DirectX accelerated SilverLight. Yes, there's Moonlight but its development has stalled largely because of the limitations of OpenGL.

Because a computer is not always available, nor is it as portable and convenient.

Sorry, but Android>Windows Phone, and will be for quite some time until MS gets more abilities in their phone OS.

It is currently for people that don't want to use their phone for these complex things. The problem with that is, there is already another phone OS for those people, that also has a shitload more support in the wild when it comes to peripherals. It's called iOS.

Again, Windows Phone is a piece of shit. It will remain a piece of shit until it actually becomes as capable as iOS or Android.

When that happens, I will happily give it another shot. Until then, they can keep it.

Yeah, it does. Hardware improved substantially in that year because of rapid adoption of 1920x1080 resolution screens (which requires better integrated graphics--Vista set minimum graphics requirements for the first time and especially Intel wasn't prepared) and influx of dual-core and quad-core processors.

99% of it revolves around Aero's hardware requirements (graphics) and the most popular graphics chip (Intel GMA) being incapable of handling it. Today, you can't buy a new computer that can't run Aero.

Windows Vista raised the hardware bar and it took about 2 years for hardware manufacturers to catch up but, by then, Vista already had a bad reputation by name.



My dad (a career trucker) has used Garmin, PC Miler, Copilot 7, and two versions of Streets & Trips (I think 2005 and 2008). He liked Streets & Trips the best.
Not entirely true. Even on the same hardware, 7 SP0 ran better than Vista SP0. SP2 is when Vista finally started working well. Problem is, it already had the bad stigma attached. I have no complaints with Vista SP2. It does work as well as 7, but earlier versions do not.

[remixedcat]

Yeah, it does. Hardware improved substantially in that year because of rapid adoption of 1920x1080 resolution screens (which requires better integrated graphics--Vista set minimum graphics requirements for the first time and especially Intel wasn't prepared) and influx of dual-core and quad-core processors.

99% of it revolves around Aero's hardware requirements (graphics) and the most popular graphics chip (Intel GMA) being incapable of handling it. Today, you can't buy a new computer that can't run Aero.

Windows Vista raised the hardware bar and it took about 2 years for hardware manufacturers to catch up but, by then, Vista already had a bad reputation by name.



My dad (a career trucker) has used Garmin, PC Miler, Copilot 7, and two versions of Streets & Trips (I think 2005 and 2008). He liked Streets & Trips the best.

Most S&T new versions is based off 1 year old NAVTEQ data. by the time most get thier paws on it the data is almost 2 years old. That's the problem with companies like NAVTEQ they take forever to correct, they use old methods of doing things and they chanrge any company assloads to access the data and by the time the OEM or software company gets it... it's way too old then and by the time the customer gets it... it's very old.... then the companies,and in turn, the users have to pay for updates, thus making it a pain.

Garmin has made it not a problem recently however, and smartphone apps are making this kinda thing obsolete, which is best. we need more real time data and to get rid of the old school system becuase it does not work well to give you the most timey and accurate data.

also most companies that make ded. gps units stop issuing updates for older models and that makes it so you gotta buy new ones all the time even tho yours works just fine.

smartphone apps with cloud based data gathered from multi sources and real time updates is better then the old ways anyday...

and what about offline use? that's easy... you can cache it. even mapquest of all apps can do this... and SD cards are cheap...


S&T's routing engine is shit BTW my company uses it too and it's gotten us lost so many times and they use it for mileage estimates and it's dead wrong most of the time and my company screws me over on miles because of it. They use the latest versions...

[FordGT90Concept]

Sorry, but Android>Windows Phone, and will be for quite some time until MS gets more abilities in their phone OS.
I would not disagree with that. I'm merely stating Microsoft has a better foundation (one built from the ground up for touch screens and small displays) to work from than Android does and that is clearly demonstrated in how little hardware it takes to run.



Not entirely true. Even on the same hardware, 7 SP0 ran better than Vista SP0. SP2 is when Vista finally started working well. Problem is, it already had the bad stigma attached. I have no complaints with Vista SP2. It does work as well as 7, but earlier versions do not.
Windows 7 is essentially Vista SP2 with a few minor tweaks. Check the dates even, SP2 came out in April 2009, Windows 7 in October 2009. If you had hardware that wasn't shit in the first place, the difference didn't matter. My dad's laptop was purchased in 2008 with Vista pre-installed and it has always ran perfectly fine, even after 4 years of use. I don't think I even beat it with the stupid stick yet.


Most S&T new versions is based off 1 year old NAVTEQ data. by the time most get thier paws on it the data is almost 2 years old. That's the problem with companies like NAVTEQ they take forever to correct, they use old methods of doing things and they chanrge any company assloads to access the data and by the time the OEM or software company gets it... it's way too old then and by the time the customer gets it... it's very old.... then the companies,and in turn, the users have to pay for updates, thus making it a pain.
Copilot is the only one out of those listed that is constantly getting updated. I think they are monthly. Garmin is every 6 months. PC Miler is never because there isn't enough memory in it to upgrade. He hasn't used Streets and Trips for a while now but he never really complained about maps being out of date because truck routes rarely change.

His phone has Bing Maps, of course, but there's a lot of areas across the USA that has no wireless data available. Additionally, that can take a ton of bandwidth when your doing it 10 hours a day, every day. It could easily cost a fortune.

He for sure runs Copilot and PC Miler at the same time. I think when he comes to a point where they disagree, he looks at the options in front of him and decides between them. If he needs to view a map, he consults Copilot because of the 15" screen on his laptop is much easier to see.

Streets and Trips make as many errors as the rest of them in routing. This is why he uses redundancy (most truckers do). He liked it the best because it was easy to look around and add/remove stops.

[Wile E]

Wrong on Android. Android has been developed for small touch screens from day one. And it works great on them.

Also, reread my post Ford. I was agreeing with you on Vista, just clarifying a little better, because there are instances that 7 is indeed faster than Vista, even on the same hardware.

[FordGT90Concept]

Android is Linux; Windows Phone is Windows CE. Linux is a desktop/server/laptop OS. Windows CE is exclusively for compact embedded systems.

The proof is in the pudding. Look at everything Windows Phone can do with one 1.0-1.4 GHz processor. Imagine what it can do with a quad-core.

[remixedcat]

Windows CE is a mess on the motorola barcode scanners I use for work. Those run windows CE 6 and it's a pain in the ass to use... if it was powered by android it would be a lot easier to use...

ever try to run a browser on a 320x240 screen using a stylus with no multitouch? (and its perma stuck on 100% size with no smart scaling or zooming) it's hell... I have to open it up to connect to hotspots (like some gas stations and coffee shops and places like mcdonalds and ATT hotspots you gotta open it up to agree to a TOS and then click to connect and then I close it and can transmit) to transmit data is I cant make it home in time... and the OS has the worst small screen interface ever.

also the menus for setup stuff are wonky as hell and buttons are in wierd places, using the on screen KB is a mess.... I could go on....

[FordGT90Concept]

Windows CE is a kernel like Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, BSD, and GNU.

You're describing Windows Mobile, not Windows Phone. It's like comparing Windows 2000 (literally, Windows Mobile 6 was released in April 2000) to Windows 7 (Windows Phone was released in October 2010). Both are Windows NT but there are vast differences between them.

[Hate_Camel]

Yeah and comparing an open source linux based OS to windows mobile is like comparing feces to watermelon.

[Wile E]

Android is Linux; Windows Phone is Windows CE. Linux is a desktop/server/laptop OS. Windows CE is exclusively for compact embedded systems.

The proof is in the pudding. Look at everything Windows Phone can do with one 1.0-1.4 GHz processor. Imagine what it can do with a quad-core.

What it's built off of is 100% irrelevant. Only end results are relevant. Android phones can (and have been for quite some time) do everything the Windows phone can do and more, on the same class of hardware. Look no further than Droid 1 for that. Your argument is total and utter bullshit and based totally on your unfounded anti-Linux sentiments.

[FordGT90Concept]

...every smartphone on the market can do what the original Droid could do. It wasn't exactly extraordinary. Hell, I can't name one smartphone that is.

I look at it from the programmer's perspective and, just like how Windows has proven to be the developer's platform of choice for the last 3 decades, Windows Phone has almost everything in place to mirror it. Dalvik's performance is horrendous compared to .NET. UIs are are more flexible under Metro than Java-based UI code. .NET promotes rapid development of application concepts into finished products. The list goes on and on.

The only thing Microsoft must do is take all the shackles off it. They need to allow custom skins, allow complete file system access, allow applications to be put on it directly without involving the marketplace, and free up hardware specifications. In short, they need to make Windows Phone more Windows like.

[remixedcat]

most tegra 2+ devices that android

you can do way more with the droid then any WP/WM device.... they had to patch a lot in to get things like custom ringtones...

some have specs that are better then my mom's laptop. hell there are some that are about as good as some people's main pc if not, better.


also you cant even customize the wallpaper or UI at all besides the colors of the tiles and add and remove tiles... WP7 is so limited

on my droid I can customize the wallpaper, the layout, the widgets, the theme (If I root) the fonts (root) the ringtones, the alarm tones, customize each app further, and sideload really easy.... can't do most of that on WP7.

[Hate_Camel]

...every smartphone on the market can do what the original Droid could do. It wasn't exactly extraordinary. Hell, I can't name one smartphone that is.
My friend got a used Droid off of ebay for $50, I got to play with it and must say, THAT THING IS AWESOME.
If I could justify paying for verizon data each month I'd get one. But I'm happy enough having a phone with a keyboard :)
The only thing Microsoft must do is take all the shackles off it. They need to allow custom skins, allow complete file system access, allow applications to be put on it directly without involving the marketplace, and free up hardware specifications. In short, they need to make Windows Phone more Windows like.
And until they do that, windows phone is muff cahbage.

[FordGT90Concept]

Windows Phone is only 1.5 years old. Microsoft had an "oh shit" moment in about 2007, followed by poor project managment (tons of indecision) and it got to a point where they had to go to market because they can't not compete any longer. So yes, they have a lot of catching up to do but the foundation in place is exceptional from which to build off of.

My computers, all of them, for example, still have the default wallpaper, default fonts, default sounds, default pointers, default task bar, default non-Aero theme, default-almost-everything so all this talk of customization sounds like wasted time to me. There's people who can't live without customization and people who just don't give a damn. Those that don't give a damn are drawn to the simplicity of Windows Phone 7.

The only "wallpaper" on Windows Phone is the lock screen and you can change that if you want to. You can do custom ringtones and alarm tones (one in the same). Ringtones/alarm tones are simply Zune-playble songs that meet certain requirements (genre set to Ringtone, no larger than 1 MiB in size, no longer than 40 seconds in length)--they sync up just like any other song but only appear in tone choices.

[remixedcat]

Ford, go find me a media app that can do the same things that some of the android media apps can.... like playerpro (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tbig.playerpro&hl=en), poweramp (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.maxmpz.audioplayer&feature=related_apps#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEwOSwiY29tLm 1heG1wei5hdWRpb3BsYXllciJd), winamp, etc...

also find me a wifi analytics app like the amped wireless (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pinapps.amped#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDUwMS wiY29tLnBpbmFwcHMuYW1wZWQiXQ..) one...

also find me something like airdroid

oh that's right I dont think MS allows wifi "sniffing" apps... LOL

There are more people requesting the amped wireless app on thier facebook page for ios then wp7... LOL... that says something... they have had no requests for wp7 vs a few for ios... LOL

[remixedcat]

and you gotta have zune to manage the phone... I don't have to deal with a silly app like that to manage my phone... it's all OTA and frees me.

[FordGT90Concept]

Ford, go find me a media app that can do the same things that some of the android media apps can.... like playerpro (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tbig.playerpro&hl=en), poweramp (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.maxmpz.audioplayer&feature=related_apps#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEwOSwiY29tLm 1heG1wei5hdWRpb3BsYXllciJd), winamp, etc...
It's integrated:
http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/windowsphone7/default.htm

Did run into this though (lets you control WinAmp on a computer from your phone):
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/1cf3ceba-d27b-e011-986b-78e7d1fa76f8

There's other media players available:
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/search?q=media+player

Zune is good enough for me so I haven't looked at any of those.



also find me a wifi analytics app like the amped wireless (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pinapps.amped#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDUwMS wiY29tLnBpbmFwcHMuYW1wZWQiXQ..) one...
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/96e6649a-5582-45a3-9c5b-a71881e18334


also find me something like airdroid
Remote desktop: http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/e2af408b-555a-e011-854c-00237de2db9e

Live only supports locating the phone via GPS, remotely erasing the phone, remote ringing the phone, and remote locking w/ message. For security reasons, external access of the phone is not allowed beyond those options.


oh that's right I dont think MS allows wifi "sniffing" apps... LOL
That is true. Don't know who would use a phone to do that though. It's hard enough to do with Wireshark on a 24" screen.


This app by Microsoft appears to do a lot of what you're talking about and more:
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/a25ec139-fc33-4571-9425-cf031a3312bb


and you gotta have zune to manage the phone... I don't have to deal with a silly app like that to manage my phone... it's all OTA and frees me.
Windows Phone 7.5 can wirelessly sync but it works differently (to conserve battery). It automatically syncs if the computer is on and the phone has been charging for 10 minutes:
YEl_1OJvd8g

I use Zune because it works flawlessly with my server (it has a personal folder and a shared folder--it merges the two and literally nothing happens on my hard drive the entire time--all LAN).

Zune will not be in Windows 8. It'll be replaced by a generic application built into the OS.

[remixedcat]

that wireless app doesn't tell you the channel, the sig power (dBm), and stuff like that... it's very basic. it doesn't show the channel of other APs nearby and the interference graphs.

and zune software sucks. I used it once and I promptly removed it... it was windows media player on meth.

[FordGT90Concept]

I doubt the wifi driver even exposes that much info. Who knows if they will in the future or not. That's another thing very, very few people ever want.


That's your opinion. A lot of people disagree with it. I've used many and Zune has proven the best. There's only two things I wish it did: played FLAC/WAV files and a way to make it not play low-rated songs.

[remixedcat]

Anyone that does serious streaming on their phone cares about wifi stats. I do.

Ms has yet to proove they can make a proper media player.

[Wile E]

...every smartphone on the market can do what the original Droid could do. It wasn't exactly extraordinary. Hell, I can't name one smartphone that is.

I look at it from the programmer's perspective and, just like how Windows has proven to be the developer's platform of choice for the last 3 decades, Windows Phone has almost everything in place to mirror it. Dalvik's performance is horrendous compared to .NET. UIs are are more flexible under Metro than Java-based UI code. .NET promotes rapid development of application concepts into finished products. The list goes on and on.

The only thing Microsoft must do is take all the shackles off it. They need to allow custom skins, allow complete file system access, allow applications to be put on it directly without involving the marketplace, and free up hardware specifications. In short, they need to make Windows Phone more Windows like.
You can update the Droid 1 to the newest Android build, and it runs it great. Again, your argument is bullshit. The Java based UI code does not hold Android back. You just want it to because you don't like it.

Again, Win Phone is a piece of shit.

[FordGT90Concept]

7.5 could be installed on 7.0 phones. Dunno what they plan to do with Windows Phone 8.

Have you ever coded on Java? Ever coded a UI on Java? It's pretty much universally loathed. Java can do most things .NET can but it will take hundreds/thousands more lines of code to achieve it. Time = Money

[Wile E]

7.5 could be installed on 7.0 phones. Dunno what they plan to do with Windows Phone 8.

Have you ever coded on Java? Ever coded a UI on Java? It's pretty much universally loathed. Java can do most things .NET can but it will take hundreds/thousands more lines of code to achieve it. Time = Money

Yet, it still works beautifully. Not to mention there's a huge code base already out there in the wild to build off of.

Again, Ford, you fail to understand the concept that it's the end results that matter, not how you achieve them.

[FordGT90Concept]

.NET is a huge code base by itself and because WPF applies to Silverlight and can be used from any .NET language, there are tons of resources for coding it online.

And you fail to understand that Windows Phone does everything I require of it exceptionally well.

[Wile E]

That you require. We already covered that earlier. Doesn't make it any less inferior to Android or even iOS, both of which do everything Win does, plus more.

[FordGT90Concept]

They all clone each other. If one does something revolution (e.g. Metro) someone else will copy it to the other platforms. What it boils down to is execution and preference.

[cdawall]

Let me list off why I rather like my android. Being able to dock and use an LCD via hdmi and a bt keyboard and mouse means I don't have to bring my netbook when I deploy. Funny enough my phone is easily just as capable. All the way down to a webcam. It also fits in my pocket and can play a good chunk of old school games which are rather fun. Did I mention its open source so tons of things get made to work on it all the time?

Fuck windows bullshit phone crap I have played with the old ones and windows ce on scanners it all works like utter shit and always will. Microsoft has its head shoved so far up its ass its no wonder its setup for the dark.

[FordGT90Concept]

OS doesn't have to be open sourced to make stuff for it. Windows is closed source and always has been.

There's very little in common between Windows Phone 7 and older versions.

[cdawall]

OS doesn't have to be open sourced to make stuff for it. Windows is closed source and always has been.

There's very little in common between Windows Phone 7 and older versions.

Windows 7 phone sucked. Unless microsoft wips something out of their ass I don't see windows 8 phone being any better. First off they are way late into the game and all other attempts have been crap. Android and IOS has matured and matured well. As its sits windows phones look more like a jitterbug than a smart phone. I will stick with android its proven and has substantially more apps for it.

On another note just thought you would enjoy knowing I sent this from my android based phone.

[FordGT90Concept]

And this was posted from Windows Phone 7.5.

[cdawall]

And this was posted from Windows Phone 7.5.

Well holy shit managed to get on the internet without a BSOD?! Maybe microsoft is making headway.

[FordGT90Concept]

Don't think Windows CE can BSOD. I'm not entirely sure it even uses drivers. The only hardware problem I've ever seen is the LG Quantum (now discontinued) sometimes restarts itself when roaming. The Lumia 900 doesn't have that problem though.

[Wile E]

Don't think Windows CE can BSOD. I'm not entirely sure it even uses drivers. The only hardware problem I've ever seen is the LG Quantum (now discontinued) sometimes restarts itself when roaming. The Lumia 900 doesn't have that problem though.

And once again, the subtleties of sarcasm escapes you.

[cdawall]

OS doesn't have to be open sourced to make stuff for it. Windows is closed source and always has been.

There's very little in common between Windows Phone 7 and older versions.

Don't think Windows CE can BSOD. I'm not entirely sure it even uses drivers. The only hardware problem I've ever seen is the LG Quantum (now discontinued) sometimes restarts itself when roaming. The Lumia 900 doesn't have that problem though.

Don't these contradict each other. I though windows started over not reused CE's shit coding. Just FYI both of those phones suck monkey nuts compared to the even the OG Droid. Good to see Microsoft taking the same standpoint as Apple release 4 year old products at today's prices with today's hype. That's great marketing oh wait no one bought Microsoft's shitty ass phones. Hell people barely took the Quantum when they gave it away for free.

[FordGT90Concept]

To quote myself:
Windows CE is a kernel like Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, BSD, and GNU.

You're describing Windows Mobile, not Windows Phone. It's like comparing Windows 2000 (literally, Windows Mobile 6 was released in April 2000) to Windows 7 (Windows Phone was released in October 2010). Both are Windows NT but there are vast differences between them.
Windows CE 1-5 were the name of an OS and the kernel. Windows CE 6 is the kernel of Windows Mobile 6 and Windows CE 7 is the kernel of Windows Phone 7.

When I said Windows CE, I was referring the kernel, not the OS. Apparently Windows CE can BSOD (http://windowserrorsadvisor.org/introducing-the-blue-screen-of-death/).


Windows Phones, for what you get hardware-wise, tend to be equal to or cheaper than Android and Apple. This is because all phones have more or less equal hardware so the various manufacutrers have to compete for sales. What better way to compete than price?

[Wile E]

To quote myself:

Windows CE 1-5 were the name of an OS and the kernel. Windows CE 6 is the kernel of Windows Mobile 6 and Windows CE 7 is the kernel of Windows Phone 7.

When I said Windows CE, I was referring the kernel, not the OS. Apparently Windows CE can BSOD (http://windowserrorsadvisor.org/introducing-the-blue-screen-of-death/).


Windows Phones, for what you get hardware-wise, tend to be equal to or cheaper than Android and Apple. This is because all phones have more or less equal hardware so the various manufacutrers have to compete for sales. What better way to compete than price?More features.

[cdawall]

More features.

A better product would be nice as well.

[FordGT90Concept]

Pretty much the only optional feature is a front-facing 1.3 MP camera. There's other variables among models like how much flash memory is installed and battery capacity but for the most part, they're all very similar. There's no major feature differences that separate them.

[Wile E]

Pretty much the only optional feature are a front-facing 1.3 MP camera.

No options would be considered a con, not a pro.

[cdawall]

Pretty much the only optional feature are a front-facing 1.3 MP camera.

Dual core and tegra GPU are somewhat nice. Being able to dock into a "netbook" is nice as well. HDMI out is pretty cool. Bluetooth sync for keyboads/mice is usefull.



Well shit that describes those damn android based devices.

[FordGT90Concept]

Windows Phone 7.5 does not support multi-core and none use Tegra chips.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Windows_Phone_devices

I spot checked a few and all I see is Qualcomm Adreno 205 GPUs.

[Wile E]

Windows Phone 7.5 does not support multi-core and none use Tegra chips.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Windows_Phone_devices

I spot checked a few and all I see is Adreno 205 GPUs.

Another con on the list.

[cdawall]

Windows Phone 7.5 does not support multi-core and none use Tegra chips.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Windows_Phone_devices

I spot checked a few and all I see is Adreno 205 GPUs.

So what you are saying is windows phones can't do something that a year old android phone does. Well that's fucking progress.

[FordGT90Concept]

If you read the op, you'd see multi-processor support is coming in Windows Phone 8.


Single-core means better battery life and as I said previously, I've never encountered a situation where it was slow. I don't think it would benefit much, if at all, from a dual-core processor.

[Wile E]

If you read the op, you'd see multi-processor support is coming in Windows Phone 8.


Single-core means better battery life and as I said previously, I've never encountered a situation where it was slow. I don't think it would benefit much, if at all, from a dual-core processor.

False. The new dual core phones have better battery life than the single cores when all else is equal. The singles are older tech.

[cdawall]

If you read the op, you'd see multi-processor support is coming in Windows Phone 8.


Single-core means better battery life and as I said previously, I've never encountered a situation where it was slow. I don't think it would benefit much, if at all, from a dual-core processor.

Yup people get terrible battery life out of the dual core androids...oh wait no they don't. If you would have read my posts I believe you will notice.

Good to see Microsoft taking the same standpoint as Apple release 4 year old products at today's prices with today's hype.

Yup going to go ahead and stand by that.

[FordGT90Concept]

45nm single core vs 40nm dual core = 45nm single wins in terms of battery life.

[cdawall]

45nm single core vs 40nm dual core = 45nm single win

Really because that works so well in real pc world too. 90nm single cores drew as much and often more than 65nm dual cores. Wattage ratings between the new duals and old singles in negligable for phones. They all fit into the same thermal envelope hence onsumptions is similar.

[FordGT90Concept]

I can't find any scientifically measured power consumption figures on either so there is no conclusive means to end that debate. :p

[Wile E]

45nm single core vs 40nm dual core = 45nm single wins in terms of battery life.

Nope. The duals have better power saving modes built in. The duals win. Look it up for yourself. Battery life is better on average on the dual core phones.

[FordGT90Concept]

Link me. Keep in mind we're talking about power consumption so take into account the mAh capacity of the batteries. For example, the Droid RAZR MAXX is going to have ridiculously long battery life because it has a 3300 mAh battery. Most phones are between 1500 and 1800.


I searched and I can't find anything. How long batteries last is very dependent upon how it is used. And I mean real-world use, not manufacturer listed.

[Wile E]

Hit xda forums and places like that for real world reviews by users and devs. Those reviews are what made me pay extra for tegra2. There's no way I'm digging that far back myself. Lol.

Mine is only 1800, btw.

[FordGT90Concept]

I know my dad's Lumia 900 lasts more than 2 days between charges. It has a BP-6EW 1830mAh battery. The LG Quantum (1500 some mAh) never lasted more than a day.

Both cases includes lots of roaming, playing simple games, and some light 3G/4G (Lumia 900 only)/WLAN use.


Edit: ooo, and I finally happened upon a site that reviews battery life:
http://blog.gsmarena.com/nokia-lumia-900-att-battery-life-test-is-completed-results-inside/

And...surprise surprise, the device in second place on all charts (1500-1700 mAh) use Qualcomm Snapdragon w/ Adreno 205 GPU.

I know the Samsung Captivate Glide has a Tegra 2 chip. It lands in the middle on all the tests.


Mind you, I know the Tegra 2 is faster on the GPU end but CPU wise, they're all pretty much the same (ARMv7). HTC Radar has a 45nm Snapdragon. Samsung Captivate Glide has a 40nm Tegra 2.

[yogurt_21]

I know my dad's Lumia 900 lasts more than 2 days between charges. It has a BP-6EW 1830mAh battery. The LG Quantum (1500 some mAh) never lasted more than a day.

"my Droid Razr doesn't last as long as my Droid Razr Maxx, why is that?" seriously?


Edit: ooo, and I finally happened upon a site that reviews battery life:
http://blog.gsmarena.com/nokia-lumia-900-att-battery-life-test-is-completed-results-inside/

And...surprise surprise, the device in second place on all charts (1500-1700 mAh) use Qualcomm Snapdragon w/ Adreno 205 GPU..


samsung galaxy note has several versions, the orginal shipped with a dual core arm processer clocked at 1.4GHZ. subsequent cheaper versions swapped to a 1.5GHZ qualcomm. The reviews doesn't specify which (or testing procedures, or anything really)

also the HTC One s is a dual core and is 4th in talk time and 3rd in video playback. (odd they didn't include gaming)

single cores do seem to have an edge in web browsing, however, that's just one category out of several. Not to mention why test the droid razr maxx and not the droid razr? it would make a good baseline to show how much battery size matters vs phone specs.

[FordGT90Concept]

also the HTC One s is a dual core and is 4th in talk time and 3rd in video playback. (odd they didn't include gaming)
A Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 MSM8260A which is manufacturered on 28 nm proces.

My point was Tegra 2 isn't all that great in terms of battery life. A lot of Qualcomm Snapdragon 45nm chips beat it.


Windows Phone 7 clearly still has some room to improve battery efficency though.

[yogurt_21]

A Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 MSM8260A which is manufacturered on 28 nm proces.

My point was Tegra 2 isn't all that great in terms of battery life. A lot of Qualcomm Snapdragon 45nm chips beat it.

an nvidia solution draws more power than the competition? My GTX 480's are shocked.

[cdawall]

A Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 MSM8260A which is manufacturered on 28 nm proces.

My point was Tegra 2 isn't all that great in terms of battery life. A lot of Qualcomm Snapdragon 45nm chips beat it.


Windows Phone 7 clearly still has some room to improve battery efficency though.

Weird windows 7 has a lot of room to improve vs OSX. Maybe its because windows couldn't program a toaster oven to be efficient.

[FordGT90Concept]

Huh? Last time I checked, the only reason why Mac OS X sells is because Apple made it. That's off topic.

[cdawall]

Huh? Last time I checked, the only reason why Mac OS X sales is because Apple made it. That's off topic.

Take a macbook pro install OSX and Windows 7 on it. One gets 7hrs of battery life one gets 3. Guess which one is which. All windows based OS's have been known since the dawn of windows to include bloat. Windows [insert bullshit version here] will be the exact same thing on a phone. Until they come out with a server OS version for my phone they can keep that shit. The only reason windows PC's out sell linux/mac is purely support. When you can get a free open source OS like linux out to the masses in any form I say score one for the little guy. That is exactly what Android is. If you want another windows 2000 or vista be my guest vote that android dies, but if you want to see microshit actually try keep buying android products eventually they will get the hint that in all reality Microsoft tablet and phone is a fucking dud and needs a complete revamp from the ground up including the base code.

[FordGT90Concept]

Because Macbook Pro's hardware is designed for Mac OS X. Specifically, the ability to turn off the GPU and run off IGP. There isn't enough coherance between Microsoft, Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA for that to happen on Windows (at least not on a lot of laptops).

Windows itself has virtually zero "bloat," the EU's lawsuit reduced what little was there even lower. You can opt-out of installing almost all of it during the installation process. Mac OS X is bursting from the seams with bloat (Apple Mail, Address Book, iCal, iSync, iChat, iTunes, Mac App Store, FaceTime, Safari, Time Machine, and Photo Booth--to name a few).

Someone coming from iPhone to Windows Phone commented on bloat specifically:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/cmpn/windows-phone-fan-mail.aspx

3. No junk software. Speaking of science experiments, I also tried a Motorola Razr. Software that cannot be deleted and restarts itself? A company with questionable privacy rules. Software that terrified my poor in-laws? I guess if you like spending your day tinkering with your phone, it’s pretty cool. Maybe it beats playing with your Star Wars dolls?
I can attest to that. There is virtually nothing on there that isn't useful. AT&T, LG, Nokia, etc. may throw a few apps on there but it's far fewer and far more useful than the dozens of programs Dell, HP, Acer, Asus, etc. throw on their desktops and laptops.


And why do you think Windows has more support? Standards, that's why. DirectX, Windows Installer, where short cuts go, where applications go, where data goes, system-wide registry unifying data access, a simple yet effective driver layer, etc. Linux is proof that open source, without some unifying force (like Mozilla behind FireFox, StarOffice behind OpenOffice, Novell behind Mono), flounders.

I never said Android is going to die. I think their market share will diminish. If anything gets pushed out of the market, it will be the iPhone for the same stubborness that nearly killed Apple in the 1990s. Microsoft can readily take Apple users (they're looking for the same thing) if they manage to dispel their fanatacism (easier said than done, but not impossible) and features that lock users into their devices (like protected AAC music that only works on iTunes).

Android has a multi-billion dollar corporation behind it, Google. Google makes their money off of ads inside of programs as well as using the information you carry in your pocket to target said ads at you. I have yet to see an ad on Windows Phone that wasn't in its browser. When's the last time you've see an ad built into Windows?

Windows Phone is positioned to be a dominent force for the same reasons why Windows has. Remember, Windows (1985) came after Macintosh (1984)--look which one took the market by storm over time. History repeats.

It's pretty clear you haven't used Windows Phone 7 nor Windows 8 on a tablet. Everything they both do, they do exceptionally well. Windows 7 on a tablet is a bad idea--not designed for touch interfaces (where Metro is so important).

[Wile E]

You can run IGP in Windows on the mac too. You clearly have no experience with them. Yes, OS X comes with a lot of bundled software. But that software doesn't run unless you open it. It is just hard drive bloat, not bloat that takes up cpu cycles.

And to make another point, desktop Windows and Windows phone are both run very differently.

Windows Phone is taking the same approach as Apple. Locking us in to what they want us to have. Whereas Win on the desktop is a more open platform.

Windows Phone is only poised to be another footnote in history. If there is anything the past few years have taught us, it's that MS has no idea what the majority want in mobile devices. I think Zune and earlier versions of Win Phone point that out pretty well.

[FordGT90Concept]

You can run IGP in Windows on the mac too. You clearly have no experience with them. Yes, OS X comes with a lot of bundled software. But that software doesn't run unless you open it. It is just hard drive bloat, not bloat that takes up cpu cycles.
Of course you can but what makes Mac efficient is it switches between them depending on load. Windows 7 doesn't have power saving features that turn off unused GPUs. The GPU itself is intended to do that.

Virtually nothing runs on stock Windows unless you open it as well. The stuff that does run (services) often run in the background to control printers, communications, hardware, installing, security, etc.


And to make another point, desktop Windows and Windows phone are both run very differently.
Not in Windows 8 they won't.


Windows Phone is taking the same approach as Apple. Locking us in to what they want us to have. Whereas Win on the desktop is a more open platform.
There's still more choices for Windows hardware than Apple hardware.

[Wile E]

Yeah, but still little choices in terms of software and configuration.

[remixedcat]

You can legally run windows on mac* but can't run mac on pc hardware.

*boot camp and vmware fusion.... vmware fusion can even use bootcamp partitions!

[FordGT90Concept]

Lumia 920 (http://www.nokia.com/us-en/products/phone/lumia920/) paper-launched. It's better than the 900 in every way except one: no more FM tuner (all Windows Phone 7.5 devices required it).

[jmcslob]

From what Ive heard from people that have "unofficially" reviewed the 920 is that it's hands down the best smartphone out there....

The only problem that's being reported about it is that it's a Windows Phone...
Windows seems to have a problem getting people to get with Windows as a mobile phone...I guess this is supposed to be Microsofts last big effort to get peoples interests so this is either going to be a last big bang for MS or finally what gets people going...

[FordGT90Concept]

I think the problem isn't Nokia or Windows, it's all the people in the AT&T, Verzion, T-Mobile, etc. stores are now pushing Android sales. What the sales people push is what most people buy.

Of course, part of that has to do with Windows limited app selection by comparison but that's quickly changing. Add in the fact that Windows 8 and Windows Phone shares stores, app availability in Windows Stores is going to boom.

[remixedcat]

I want a winphone but no prepaid options that don't touch ATT and I will never touch them with a 9878765656554 mile cellphone tower

[FordGT90Concept]

Yeah, AT&T is an asshole. I've been looking at changing to Verizon for a while now.


This is interesting:
Eight new platform announcements for Windows Phone 8 (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/cell-phones/eight-new-platform-announcements-for-windows-phone-8/7856)

Windows Phone 7 devices will be getting an update to 7.8 too which includes Windows Update via WiFi among other things. Windows Phone 7 devices will not be able to be updated to Windows Phone 8.