Healthcare, marijuana

[skotosa]

You didnt read and yet you're going to quote me? Nice. Youre worse than SK. Go back and read it THEN talk... you completely misunderstood what I said. Thanks, bye.


I don't think you understood my post, what I meant was that I didn't read anything else prior to this page of posts. So I did read what you said and thats why I quoted you. Also when you said SK I thought you were referring to me and were shorting my name of Skotosa to Sk but I realize now there is someone called SK so sorry for the misunderstand still stand by what I said regarding Marijuana.

And dude "worse than SK"? Are you trying to pick fights or is that some sort of defense mechanism?

[jmcslob]

I just had a really cool thought about something really important...
Maybe Life Changing..

But I can't fuckin remember what it was...

I keep thinking I should write it down or even use notepad
But I forget about it until I forget what I was going to do....Then I think about how nice it'd be if I wrote down or something...

Vicious cycle....

[Wile E]

Shut up and pass the Doritoes.

[SK-1]

DENVER — Gov. Bill Ritter is using $9 million from medical marijuana registrations to help the state meet a $60 million fiscal emergency.

The state anticipates ending the year with 150,000 applicants for medical marijuana cards, up from 41,000 in 2009. A marijuana card costs $90 per year.

Backers of medical marijuana legislation in a number of states and cities have touted revenue from possible taxes and other fees as a selling point at a time of tight fiscal funding.

Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gbvz7bJYtF2A5BH9p-O8Mr6njgogD9HPDV600

[jmcslob]

Not terribly big news BUT..
My city Police Chief said he will no longer Jail, Arrest or bother with Marijuana charges..
Unless it coincides with a Violent crime or any of "The Bad Drugs" or is within 1500' of a school.

*On the other side of that...It's nothing new as they have unofficially had that policy for about a decade.*

This was brought up on a remark about stamping down on Drug issues the city is having (Crack and Meth)
They will be prosecuting offenses of possession and use of hard drugs to the fullest extent of the Law.

This statement was made when our Local state Rep paid a visit where he made a Statement that he will be proposing Legislation for Serious Drug offenders (Crack and Meth users) to have to register with the County Sheriff's and local town or City Halls in the same fashion that Sex offenders do..

If any of that makes it to the actual news I'll gladly post it here!

[jmcslob]

So here is a question

What is better
An employee that is in so much pain he cannot function
-or-
An employee that is high but is able to function
-or-
An employee that is on a legal pain medication that he cannot function on that causes severe dependencies


I ask because I was at work and was overwhelmed with pain and had to be taken to the ER to be given an injection of a muscle relaxer that made me unable to do anything but drool..

I'm sorry if people don't want to hear this but I can function while High on pot

But I cannot function while in so much pain that I'm nauseous and am near blacking out

I need to work and I can do so legally while under the influence of legal narcotics that do lead to poor job performance.

But it's against the law for me to do something that allows me to do my job with good performance..

This country is fucked up...

I really wish all you people that are against Medical Marijuana were feeling what I am right now...

Shit I bet if the people that were against it felt like I do on a good day I bet they would change their minds in less than an hour..

[Deusxmachina]

From the Liberator Online:

Police arrested a staggering 858,408 persons for marijuana violations in 2009, according to FBI figures released this month.

That's the second highest ever reported -- just a few thousand victims short of the all-time record of 872,721 arrests in 2007.

Looking more closely at these figures:

* Marijuana arrests now comprise more than one-half (approximately 52%) of all drug arrests reported in the United States.

*Arrest About 88% of those charged with marijuana violations (758,593 Americans) were charged with possession only.

* The remaining 99,815 individuals were charged with "sale/manufacture," a broad category that includes virtually *all* cultivation offenses -- even those where the marijuana was being grown for personal or medical use.

* The number of marijuana arrests far exceeded the total number of arrests in the U.S. the same year for all violent crimes combined (582,000) -- including murder, manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault.

* 61,164 people were arrested for pot possession in California alone. California will vote this fall on a proposition to legalize possession and cultivation of marijuana.

* Marijuana arrests have almost tripled since the early 1990s.

* At this rate there is a marijuana smoker arrested roughly every 37 seconds in America.

Jail* The effects of an arrest can be devastating, notes Paul Armentano of NORML:
"Probation and mandatory drug testing; loss of employment; loss of child custody; removal from subsidized housing; asset forfeiture; loss of student aid; loss of voting privileges; loss of adoption rights..." and of course, for some, time behind bars.

* The War on Marijuana is largely waged against young Americans. In 2007, according to NORML, three out of four of those arrested were under age 30; one in four were 18 or younger.

* According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 16.7 million Americans used marijuana in the past month. Other studies show marijuana use in America is on the rise, despite nearly a million arrests annually. How's that Drug War working for ya, Mr. Drug Czar?

* The above figures clearly show that the War on Drugs is largely a War on Marijuana, and one waged largely against young adult pot smokers.

"Most Americans -- rightly -- would be outraged to learn that our nation's so-called War on Drugs is really just an assault on young adults caught with small bags of weed," said Armentano last year.

[SK-1]

Your tax dollar at work keeping us all safe from the mentally deranged Pot Crazies.

[TerriTsu]

I'm not the first to say this but i'll say it again..Weed would save this country big time. There would be job creation by a HUGE margin but these politicians and other industries..that's not in their interests..they dont want the alcohol or other competitors to suffer from weed kickin their ass in sales..it's just stupid...When in reality many would benefit from..there's always going to be propaganda and annoying anti-drug commercials about it.

[SK-1]

I'm not the first to say this but i'll say it again..Weed would save this country big time. There would be job creation by a HUGE margin but these politicians and other industries..that's not in their interests..they dont want the alcohol or other competitors to suffer from weed kickin their ass in sales..it's just stupid...When in reality many would benefit from..there's always going to be propaganda and annoying anti-drug commercials about it.

A cute, Democrat hatin, Pro Pot, WW2 Buff...:D
You married?:)............ JK XD

[FordGT90Concept]

I'm not the first to say this but i'll say it again..Weed would save this country big time. There would be job creation by a HUGE margin but these politicians and other industries..that's not in their interests..they dont want the alcohol or other competitors to suffer from weed kickin their ass in sales..it's just stupid...When in reality many would benefit from..there's always going to be propaganda and annoying anti-drug commercials about it.
Explain...

Agriculture really doesn't employ that many people because machines act as a force multiplier. There wouldn't be much of an increase in the retail sector either because most likely established pharmacies or grocery stores would carry it (depends on how it is rescheduled). I also highly doubt there would be a big boom into other uses of hemp because we already got excellent substitutes for most of its uses.

The only way major change legalizing it would have is by farming in the USA rather than importing it.


Again, the "war on drugs" is largely against marijuana because when you stop them on marijuana, they are unlikely to progress to heroin, coccaine, meth, etc. as pointed out here:
* The effects of an arrest can be devastating, notes Paul Armentano of NORML:
"Probation and mandatory drug testing; loss of employment; loss of child custody; removal from subsidized housing; asset forfeiture; loss of student aid; loss of voting privileges; loss of adoption rights..." and of course, for some, time behind bars.

The system is setup to ruin your life if you do marijuana--the smart ones stop if not for the consequences, the cost.

[SK-1]

Explain...

Agriculture really doesn't employ that many people because machines act as a force multiplier. There wouldn't be much of an increase in the retail sector either because most likely established pharmacies or grocery stores would carry it (depends on how it is rescheduled). I also highly doubt there would be a big boom into other uses of hemp because we already got excellent substitutes for most of its uses.

The only way major change legalizing it would have is by farming in the USA rather than importing it.


Again, the "war on drugs" is largely against marijuana because when you stop them on marijuana, they are unlikely to progress to heroin, coccaine, meth, etc. as pointed out here:


The system is setup to ruin your life if you do marijuana--the smart ones stop if not for the consequences, the cost.


Ford is thinking too hard again.
The officials involved in CAMP (Campaign Against Marijuana Planting) have estimated that they seized $7 billion worth of marijuana in California alone. Federal Government officials have estimated that, at best, they only seize about ten percent of the crop. That would put the size of the market at about $70 billion, minimum, if California was the only place growing it.


Just for comparison's sake, the market for brewed beverages in the US is a little over $100 billion.

Now Ford, I know the US Government dosnt quite have the Midas Touch...But if they (US Gov.) cant pull a profit off the MOST LUCRATIVE crop in the USA (world??), then I quit.

[FordGT90Concept]

And the moment you start farming it, it becomes about as valuable as dirt. The government may artificially inflate the price through taxation but that still won't translate into jobs. Not to mention, once you legalize the drug, the appeal of it goes away and the market for said product shrinks.

[TerriTsu]

I still think it should be legal bottomline..even though that doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon...only medically around where I live..but then again I have no use for it..but I also think there's no reason why it still should be illegal.

[DaMulta]

And the moment you start farming it, it becomes about as valuable as dirt. The government may artificially inflate the price through taxation but that still won't translate into jobs. Not to mention, once you legalize the drug, the appeal of it goes away and the market for said product shrinks.

IDK they make a SHIT load on Tob........ How would it not translate into jobs? Ever heard of liquor stores? Plus famers, plus all it takes to grow it, and so on.

A ton of people would smoke pot if it was legal in no way would the demand go down.

[FordGT90Concept]

As of 2001, it looks like US consumers spent $82.8 billion. It cost $1.92 per pound to produce 992 million pounds or a total of $19.0 billion in raw value. World production at the same time was 13,553 million pounds.

Source: Page 7 (CRS-4), http://www.nationalaglawcenter.org/assets/crs/RL30947.pdf


You are right, there is a shitload of money to be made but due to mechanization, it doesn't translate into many jobs. As of 1997, the entire (including farmers and manufacturers) tobacco industry employed only 184,800 (http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=4000) people in the USA. The few people that profit from it profit a lot.

2009 workforce (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html): 154.2 million
Less 10% unemployment in 2009: 138.8 million
Round their figure up for 1997->2000: 200,000 (although in actuality, it most likely went down)
Tobacco industry only accounted for 0.1% of the jobs in 2009 (estimated).



Yes, demand would go down. The bulk of those that started smoking pot were in middle and high school. The reason they started was often due to rebelling against their parents and other authority figures. If it were legalized, the drug loses a lot of its dangerous and risky appeal. I'd say about half would never try pot in the first place if it were legal. They would instead go for alcohol or other products that are illegal at that age. The amount that smoke would not increase just as we have seen declining trends in alcohol and tobacco abuse. If it does increase, it would be in the single digit percentile followed by either stagnant growth or decline. Demand would only increase substantially if the price came down substantially. That will not happen because, knowing the greedy bastards in charge, marijuana would most likely go up in value per ounce through heavy duty taxes + profit margins.


But as I said before, the rules of the DEA dictates that marijuana can't be rescheduled due to its widespread abuse. The only way it could be rescheduled is through an act of Congress which isn't likely to happen in the next 5-10 years.

[jmcslob]

You do realize it costs $1.92 to make a pound of something that on the high end sells for $650 an ounce right...

and that's buying it legally..


So if the high end shit dips by 50% in value your still making $5198.08 a pound
That's a shit load of money that could be taxed to pay for roads and shit

Just to let ya know I was paying $375 for a half ounce for my medical grade blue Bud
1 ounce was $650 as with anything it gets cheaper in bulk at a quarter pound (the max you could buy) it sold for $2000

[FordGT90Concept]

Like I said, I really don't care what the legal status of marijuana is because it doesn't effect me. My only real concern is kids using harder drugs instead of marijuana before they are caught (ehm, the cost to society).

And like I said, I would expect the price to remain $650 an ounce if not increase to $700+ an ounce. At the same time, your products based on marijua (like Marinol) could drop substantially in price by not being heavily taxed but, knowing they get away with $10 for 50mg, they are likely to keep the price where it is.

[jmcslob]

Like I said, I really don't care what the legal status of marijuana is because it doesn't effect me. My only real concern is kids using harder drugs instead of marijuana before they are caught (ehm, the cost to society).

And like I said, I would expect the price to remain $650 an ounce if not increase to $700+ an ounce. At the same time, your products based on marijua (like Marinol) could drop substantially in price by not being heavily taxed.

TBH the $650 an ounce stuff is like a Fine Wine that has been perfectly aged.

There are many varieties that are much cheaper like Chronic that will get you high as a mofo for $175 an ounce..

But that stuff is not for me If I'm gonna smoke I want my Northern Lights or Red haired Jamaican or even an extra Stout Afghany Skunk...

Chronic is like Bush beer or maybe even Miller High Life ya know..

Just saying

Oh and each breed has it's own attributes which is why their are different strains for different ailments...
Some don't get you "High" but leave you super relaxed etc.. I like the better blended strains myself

[Deusxmachina]

Not to mention, once you legalize the drug, the appeal of it goes away and the market for said product shrinks.
I'd say about half would never try pot in the first place if it were legal.

So the best way to fight the war against drugs is to legalize it. Who knew? (toast)

[TerriTsu]

Even Tojo used to hit the bonghttp://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1527/peacew.jpg

[FordGT90Concept]

So the best way to fight the war against drugs is to legalize it. Who knew? (toast)
Marijuana isn't the problem. I agree the drug itself is more mild than alcohol and tobacco and it shouldn't be illegal when those are legal. The problem I have is the bigger picture: how many will experiment with a harder illegal drug like cocaine instead of marijuana? I am positive the number will increase but it is impossible to say by how much...

I think all computed (benefits vs. risk factors), I would be 60/40 in favor of legalization:
http://img.techpowerup.org/100925/marijuana_t_chart.png

[DaMulta]

Where do you buy pot Ford????/Places that sell Black Market drugs....Which could also sell Cocaine.....

Fuck if Beer was illegal, and you had to buy it from a guy that sold Cocaine also....I bet it could lead to Cocaine use......

[SK-1]

Marijuana isn't the problem. I agree the drug itself is more mild than alcohol and tobacco and it shouldn't be illegal when those are legal. The problem I have is the bigger picture: how many will experiment with a harder illegal drug like cocaine instead of marijuana? I am positive the number will increase but it is impossible to say by how much...


You've come a long way FordGT90Concept.(toast)

Your over halfway there....

The gateway theory has been debunked.

I know its easy to think that way but it's just left over Drug-war Propaganda.

While not actually legal, the Netherlands have adopted a "Harm Reduction Policy" and tolerate and tax its use.

See, the folks in Holland know the harm fron keeping cannabis illegal is far greater to society as a whole than tolerating and somewhat controlling its distribution and use.

Just look at these figures.:)

http://img.techpowerup.org/100926/Capture796.jpg
http://img.techpowerup.org/100926/Capture797.jpg
It just works.

[FordGT90Concept]

The gateway theory has been debunked.
No, not really. Marijuana is popular because it is contraband and it is readily available. Virtually everyone that has done cocaine and heroin have at one point or another used marijuana. As DaMulta said, those that sell marijuana are likely to carry harder drugs as well.


As for the charts, they really don't prove anything other than marijuana abuse is far greater in America than the Netherlands. It doesn't give any indicators as to why. Culturally, demographically, and racially, the countries are very different. I'd say the reason why it is doubled is >90% related to the social climate in the respective countries. It has nothing to do with legal status.

The only figure that really stands out there is inhalants. Marijuana is 2:1, heroin is 3:1, cocaine is 5:1, and inhalants is 11:1. 11:1 because they are readily accessible and cheaper than all three. I'd say if marijuana is legalized, inhalants are likely to boom. Currently, inhalant abuse among kids has flat-lined (http://www.nida.nih.gov/PDF/RRinhalants.pdf).

[DaMulta]

If we get rid of the back market for pot. Harder drug use should go down, because they don't sell cocaine at liquor stores/gas stations/

When I was a kid it was easier for me to get things like Cocain/Pot, because there is no SHOW ID to the drug dealer. Plus Cops can come in and setup ramdom age checks for things like Beer/Cigs. So it freaks people selling to younger people with no ID*Along with the heavy fine for doing so*.

People drive on heavy meds all the time from Drs, and most of the time pot effects people in the same way. The world will not come crashing down with just opening it up for people over 21.

[Wile E]

And the moment you start farming it, it becomes about as valuable as dirt. The government may artificially inflate the price through taxation but that still won't translate into jobs. Not to mention, once you legalize the drug, the appeal of it goes away and the market for said product shrinks.

Funny, alcohol doesn't seem to have suffered this fate.

Yes, demand would go down. The bulk of those that started smoking pot were in middle and high school. The reason they started was often due to rebelling against their parents and other authority figures. If it were legalized, the drug loses a lot of its dangerous and risky appeal. I'd say about half would never try pot in the first place if it were legal. They would instead go for alcohol or other products that are illegal at that age. The amount that smoke would not increase just as we have seen declining trends in alcohol and tobacco abuse. If it does increase, it would be in the single digit percentile followed by either stagnant growth or decline. Demand would only increase substantially if the price came down substantially. That will not happen because, knowing the greedy bastards in charge, marijuana would most likely go up in value per ounce through heavy duty taxes + profit margins.

No it wouldn't go down. Odds are, it would be rescheduled to be similar to alcohol. The rebellious allure is still there, as evidenced by teen alcohol and cigarette use.

No, not really. Marijuana is popular because it is contraband and it is readily available. Virtually everyone that has done cocaine and heroin have at one point or another used marijuana. As DaMulta said, those that sell marijuana are likely to carry harder drugs as well.


As for the charts, they really don't prove anything other than marijuana abuse is far greater in America than the Netherlands. It doesn't give any indicators as to why. Culturally, demographically, and racially, the countries are very different. I'd say the reason why it is doubled is >90% related to the social climate in the respective countries. It has nothing to do with legal status.

The only figure that really stands out there is inhalants. Marijuana is 2:1, heroin is 3:1, cocaine is 5:1, and inhalants is 11:1. 11:1 because they are readily accessible and cheaper than all three. I'd say if marijuana is legalized, inhalants are likely to boom. Currently, inhalant abuse among kids has flat-lined (http://www.nida.nih.gov/PDF/RRinhalants.pdf).
Wait, you are trying to use govt propaganda to prove an anti-marijuana point?

And legalizing pot doesn't magically make cocaine or heroin easier to come by. There is absolutely no reason to believe that legalizing marijuana will have any effect at all on harder drug use. Being someone that has first hand experience on this "gateway" issue, I can tell you right now, that D is right. I, and everyone else I knew, that had harder drugs start was because our pot dealers pushed it on us, and we eventually caved due to peer pressure.

Take pot away from the dealer, and put it into the stores, and you take away the easiest avenue to the harder drugs.

Seriously, unless you have personal experience in this matter, you shouldn't really be making assumptions on it.

None of this even touches on the fact that I believe harder drugs should be legal anyway, but with controlled quality, and similar restrictions as alcohol.

[FordGT90Concept]

Funny, alcohol doesn't seem to have suffered this fate.
Marijuana use is heavy among the rebellious teens. If marijuana isn't illegal, they will find another fix to rebel with. As I previously pointed out, I think that would be inhalants. I'd really hate to have to show ID to buy Sharpies. :(



No it wouldn't go down. Odds are, it would be rescheduled to be similar to alcohol. The rebellious allure is still there, as evidenced by teen alcohol and cigarette use.
Yes, if it were changed to an age limit, the rebellious lure would still be present. I think that would actually be ideal because it makes the adults happy and keeps the Sharpies on store shelves.


Wait, you are trying to use govt propaganda to prove an anti-marijuana point?

And legalizing pot doesn't magically make cocaine or heroin easier to come by. There is absolutely no reason to believe that legalizing marijuana will have any effect at all on harder drug use. Being someone that has first hand experience on this "gateway" issue, I can tell you right now, that D is right. I, and everyone else I knew, that had harder drugs start was because our pot dealers pushed it on us, and we eventually caved due to peer pressure.
The Mexican and Columbian cartels that are delivering the lion's share of cocaine and marijuana will likely switch their focus if marijuana is no longer a reliable sell. More cocaine and more heroin are the likely direction they would go.

But why did you approach the dealer? Marijuana? Just like a car dealer, you come for a $10,000 used car and they convince you to leave with a $30,000 new car. If you knew all they had was cocaine and heroin, would you have seen that dealer?



None of this even touches on the fact that I believe harder drugs should be legal anyway, but with controlled quality, and similar restrictions as alcohol.
The restrictions on the harder drugs would have to exceed that of alcohol. Many people have died snorting coke and injecting H. Not to mention the severe addiction. I don't even know what restrictions could be put in place to make it acceptable. Straight jackets and padded rooms, maybe?

[DaMulta]

It's proven that around 80% of the Mexicans trade deal is pot. Take that away and it's HUGE blow to the system. Most people I have known that did harder drugs would quit in a instant in pot was legal. For one pot is the best thing to kick any hardcore habit. Trust me no one likes going to certain places to get your fix.

There are good people that do things like cocain, and this leads you to believe that it's really not that bad. There isn't that many dealers, and so you only get what is on the plate.


No all drug use will end. That's a fact, but it would take a HUGE blow to everything else on the black market.

Kids would still smoke pot, but it would be more like O BOYS I got us a 6 pack. It's not lets run to the dealers house and pick up a 20 bag every day after school. It would make it harder in a lot of ways.

Also no one likes smoking Mexican pot, but it's easy to get cause they flood the market with it.


People approach pot, because it's not that bad for you. Like a lot of other things, and most people know this. It's just that no one believes that it is a gateway drug, and it's not....it's where it's sold at is the gateway.

[FordGT90Concept]

Well...let me restate where I am:

a) I am against the idea of "medical marijuana." It is a plant, it can't be controlled, so the FDA can't approve it, and it just creates a giant mess. Marijuana is a herb meaning it can't be classified as medicinal drug. Like alcohol and tabacco, marijuana is an over-the-counter self-medication. Only drugs, like Marinol, derived (concentrated) from marijuana should be controlled by the FDA. Doctors cannot "prescribe" marijuana, only suggest it. That keeps insurers out of the loop and that entire mess too.

b) I would have no problem trying legalization of marijuana for adults 21 and over (ID required). The reason why I say this is because we need to measure the cost to society (especially teen-trends) instead of just speculating it.

c) I think the push for "medical" marijuana is ruining the chances of legalization. It brings the medical community into the argument and it results in nothing but bucking heads (FDA versus doctors versus DEA versus druggies). Stop that senseless argument and push for Congress to treat marijuana like alcohol and tobacco. The medical community hates both but they will hate any form of self medication so just leave them to deal with the consquences.

[SK-1]

Well...let me restate where I am:

a) I am against the idea of "medical marijuana." It is a plant, it can't be controlled, so the FDA can't approve it, and it just creates a giant mess.


Better get out the Plant Ban Stick Ford!

I'm starting to think you just never want this thread to never stop.

http://img.techpowerup.org/100926/Capture799.jpg
http://www.rain-tree.com/plantdrugs.htm

[FordGT90Concept]

Yes, lots of stuff comes from plants but it is all processed/refined and controlled. Case in point: how many medicinal plants do you see at your local pharmacy? If there are any there, they are sold as herbs (self-treatment), not prescriptions. Prescribing a weed doesn't sit right with me because it can't be sufficiently controlled (dosages, potency, documented side effects, effectiveness, etc.).

[DaMulta]

I only think medical pot should be sold in THC pills ONLY. I do think it should just be legal for anyone over 21. In California where they about to vote to legalize it....the medical side is now against it being opened up.....I say it's cause it will cut into their business, and is the real reason they are against it.


let me just say OMG FORD CHANGED HIS STANCE!!!!! A FIRST EVER FOR GN!!!!

[FordGT90Concept]

I only think medical pot should be sold in THC pills ONLY.
Marinol (or generic brand)? If so, I completely agree.


In California where they about to vote to legalize it....the medical side is now against it being opened up.....I say it's cause it will cut into their business, and is the real reason they are against it.
But that's part of the problem. The laws that govern this matter are federal and the Constitution says that federal laws take precedent over state. Every time a state violates the federal law, the feds must act in kind enforcing the established laws (exact same as what Arizona is dealing with). Instead of taking the issue to the states, it needs to be taken to Congress. Taking it to the states will just piss the feds off more.


let me just say OMG FORD CHANGED HIS STANCE!!!!! A FIRST EVER FOR GN!!!!
Actually, no. I've been very consistent throughout the entire thread. Look at my second and third post in this thread:
Those plants might be absorbing toxic fertilizers from the ground and god knows what else. Being an uncontrolled substance means it could do more harm than good even if used as directed. All pills (less "dietary supplements") must pass strict FDA/DEA regulations in order to be sold; moreover, most of the pain drugs with intoxicating attributes aren't available over the counter.
That's where the problem lies. The FDA won't approve a "plant" so what could be approved is a controlled, refined, version of the plant. That hasn't been done yet and hence, why possession of the plant itself is still illegal.

I would have no problem with a drug form of marijuana with the same restrictions of hydrocodone (http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/hydrocodone.html) (schedule II controlled substance).
We've been talking about pretty much the same stuff this page. I am still borderline between Schedule II as I stated there (40%) and treating it like alcohol (60%) but leaning towards the latter because alcohol and tobacco are more addicting/harmful.

[jmcslob]

I only think medical pot should be sold in THC pills ONLY. I do think it should just be legal for anyone over 21. In California where they about to vote to legalize it....the medical side is now against it being opened up.....I say it's cause it will cut into their business, and is the real reason they are against it.


let me just say OMG FORD CHANGED HIS STANCE!!!!! A FIRST EVER FOR GN!!!!

It doesn't work D...

Ive taken them myself all they do is give you the munchies and make you paranoid...

You need an amount of Cannabinoids for it to work properly for most medical uses...

I'm fairly sure that's why it actually works but they haven't been able to identify the exact combination that does the magic..

[FordGT90Concept]

Which would hopefully change when it is legalized (price comes down, research goes up).

[jmcslob]

They could do that now..But then it would reaffirm that Marijuana does in fact have some real life medical uses which would mean the Federal Govt would have to change it's schedule...

I'm still on the belief that it's illegal because the number of people in prison/prison created jobs/the number of available jobs..

In other words unemployment would skyrocket...by about 3% and we can't have that now can we

[Wile E]

But why did you approach the dealer? Marijuana? Just like a car dealer, you come for a $10,000 used car and they convince you to leave with a $30,000 new car. If you knew all they had was cocaine and heroin, would you have seen that dealer?No I wouldn't go to the dealer if I could go to a store to buy weed. That's the point I'm trying to make, and your statement just kind of backed up.

The restrictions on the harder drugs would have to exceed that of alcohol. Many people have died snorting coke and injecting H. Not to mention the severe addiction. I don't even know what restrictions could be put in place to make it acceptable. Straight jackets and padded rooms, maybe?
Many people have died from alcohol OD as well. And many drug ODs stem from the inconsistent quality of product. Force consistency regulations, and the problems will be less prominent.

I know this part of my view is a bit extreme, but I do feel people should be allowed to do with themselves what they wish, as long as they don't hurt anyone else in the process.

Yes, lots of stuff comes from plants but it is all processed/refined and controlled. Case in point: how many medicinal plants do you see at your local pharmacy? If there are any there, they are sold as herbs (self-treatment), not prescriptions. Prescribing a weed doesn't sit right with me because it can't be sufficiently controlled (dosages, potency, documented side effects, effectiveness, etc.).

Sure it can be controlled. That's why medical grade is genetically engineered these days, and grown in controlled conditions. After that, standard QC testing would easily verify uniformity.

[FordGT90Concept]

They could do that now..But then it would reaffirm that Marijuana does in fact have some real life medical uses which would mean the Federal Govt would have to change it's schedule...

I'm still on the belief that it's illegal because the number of people in prison/prison created jobs/the number of available jobs..

In other words unemployment would skyrocket...by about 3% and we can't have that now can we
That's not how it works. Prolific illicit use of marijuana alone forbids it from being rescheduled. If very few people abused marijuana (like only those using it to treat an aliment and not as a recreation drug) it probably would have been rescheduled a decade ago.

Marijana was originally (and remains there) on Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act. Basically, the authors of the act declared it evil incarnate, the bill passed, and here it is today.


No I wouldn't go to the dealer if I could go to a store to buy weed. That's the point I'm trying to make, and your statement just kind of backed up.
D's chart makes sense in that context: most of the demand for scheduled drugs is marijuana and that high marijuana demand could lead to increased coke and H abuse. Assuming all things were equal, marijuana multiplied the use of coccaine by 5 and the use of heroin by 3 but that's just assumptions.


Many people have died from alcohol OD as well. And many drug ODs stem from the inconsistent quality of product. Force consistency regulations, and the problems will be less prominent.

I know this part of my view is a bit extreme, but I do feel people should be allowed to do with themselves what they wish, as long as they don't hurt anyone else in the process.
I do get what you are saying but again, the elephant in the room is the cost to society and it just can't be accurately computed without tons of assumptions.



Sure it can be controlled. That's why medical grade is genetically engineered these days, and grown in controlled conditions. After that, standard QC testing would easily verify uniformity.
"Medical grade" doesn't really mean anything though. Again, the entire healthcare industry revolves around the FDA doing its job. If the FDA doesn't approve it, "medical" anything doesn't hold water. If you want to know what health ads on TV are bullshit, just look for the "these claims have not been evaluated by the FDA" and the words "dietary supplement." Dietary supplements, like weeds, aren't regulated by the FDA so you basically get whatever they decide to put in it. Everything the FDA does is extremely methodical and that's why the public has come to trust their decisions. The FDA also holds pharmaceuticals that lie accountable--followed by a tidal wave of public lawsuits.

What I'm getting at is genetically engineered usually doesn't mean it's better for you--it's better for the plant. Geneticially engineering also doesn't usually dictate control. The very term actually goes against the grain for most people because it is not natural and may have unforeseen consequences. The way we make all drugs is to break the plant down into it's most simple state, separate the active ingredients from the rest which usually ends up as a liquid or a powder, and finally add it to other active and inactive ingredients to form a pill that has the exact same effect today as it will 100 days from now. That is controlled--like Marinol, hydrocodone, and morphine (all derived from illegal plants--except special, DEA regulated permits).

[Wile E]

Controlled growth environments, coupled with genetic engineering, coupled with proper quality control still allows for a consistent product, even if it is a plant.

[FordGT90Concept]

Consistent =/= controlled.
Plant =/= drug.

The FDA approves controlled drugs, not consistent plants.

[skotosa]

Ok I've just been skimming through peoples posts to see where people stand and as a result my post.

Medical Marijuana means thats its free from impurities like Rat Poison and other crap you might find if you were to get it of the streets. Thats a big deal since thats the shit that fucks you up (health wise).

The whole idea that Marijuana is a gateway drug or marijuana use increases cocaine and heroin use is again due to the fact that people can only get it of the streets. The people who sell marijuana on the streets will also try and get people to buy other drugs to increase their sells and for other obvious reasons.

Both of those could be avoided if the American people could buy from reliable markets ergo having having it legal.

Another negative to having marijuana illegal is Crime Rate. Our tax money goes into this war on drugs and the war on drugs is mainly just war on marijuana. The majority of the people who get arrested for possession of drugs is because they possessed marijuana. Teenagers lives go down the drain for possession of marijuana who's records go tainted over this harmless drug.

Overall we could benefit America greatly by legalizing this harmless drug. Lower Crime Rates, better health medication (Marijuana has much greater therapeutic advantages than drugs we currently use like Morphine), and less tax money wasted.

These few points make me a firm believer that this drug should be legalized.
Everyone I know or practically any person I meet has smoked (or smokes) marijuana. Its really just ridiculous this isn't legal yet and tbh its only a matter of time.

[Wile E]

Consistent =/= controlled.
Plant =/= drug.

The FDA approves controlled drugs, not consistent plants.There is no reason not to class it as a drug if the control and consistency is there. Being a plant doesn't matter, only the end results matter.

[FordGT90Concept]

Again, name one plant that is FDA approved for consumption. It's never been done before because there are too many variables.

[jmcslob]

Carrots (genetically engineered Carrots)
just an example LuLzzz.
here are the guidelines for "Bioengineered Products"
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Testimony/ucm115032.htm

[skotosa]

Again, name one plant that is FDA approved for consumption. It's never been done before because there are too many variables.

I don't think I'm following you? Tobacco perhaps?

[FordGT90Concept]

Carrots (genetically engineered Carrots)
just an example LuLzzz.
here are the guidelines for "Bioengineered Products"
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Testimony/ucm115032.htm
I forgot its the FOOD and Drug Administration. Oops. XD


I don't think I'm following you? Tobacco perhaps?
Hmm, the focus of the FDA on tobacco is the nicotine. I don't see much in the way of controls on the plant:
http://www.fda.gov/AdvisoryCommittees/CommitteesMeetingMaterials/TobaccoProductsScientificAdvisoryCommittee/default.htm

[Wile E]

Again, name one plant that is FDA approved for consumption. It's never been done before because there are too many variables.

Why can't there be a first? We have the ability to control it. Again, origin doesn't matter, only end results. If the end result is a product controlled to FDA standards, that's all that matters.

[SK-1]

Again, name one plant that is FDA approved for consumption. It's never been done before because there are too many variables.

According to the FDA and the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA), there are over 40 plant varieties that have completed all of the federal requirements for commercialization.

The Drug companies lobby for whatever they want.