Car Audio Help - replacing everything in '01 Cavalier -total n00b

[JC316]

Originally Posted by theJesus

god damn it . . . I found this video:

For one thing, that video kinda sucks to begin with, but anyways it's for a 4-door. The "little" trim pieces on my 2-door are fucking huge and go all the way from the ceiling to the floor and cover the whole area where the rear two doors would normally be. And I can't figure out how to get them all the way off.

Let me give you a tip. That package tray is glorified cardboard. It bends and flexes very easily. I NEVER take those trim pieces off, I always just bend the cardboard on one side, then manhandle it out.

[theJesus]

Originally Posted by JC316

Let me give you a tip. That package tray is glorified cardboard. It bends and flexes very easily. I NEVER take those trim pieces off, I always just bend the cardboard on one side, then manhandle it out.

Thanks, that's what I was hoping somebody would say lol. In fact, I actually almost did it like that, but was worried it might break so that's why I looked up the video.

[JC316]

Originally Posted by theJesus

Thanks, that's what I was hoping somebody would say lol. In fact, I actually almost did it like that, but was worried it might break so that's why I looked up the video.

No, it wont break.

[theJesus]

Alright, I got that out and now two more problems.

A) I can't tell which wires are + and which are - for the back speakers since the speaker terminals weren't labeled in any way that I could see. On the left speaker there's a yellowish wire and a brownish wire. On the right there's a greenish wire and a blueish wire.

B) The new speakers won't fit in the holders. I think I might have some self-tapping metal screws though so I can just mount the speakers directly instead of using those holders. I'm not sure if I have 8 of them though.

[theJesus]

Found a diagram to help with the colors

http://www.10w30.com/thread-3525.html

edit: That just said A and B instead of + and - so I cross-checked instead of assuming A was + and B was minus. Go figure it's backwards: http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/....asp~TID~48892 http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...etail/503.html

So LR+ is brown, LR- is yellow, RR+ is dark blue, and RR- is light blue.

[theJesus]

Finally done and sounds pretty good. The bass is plenty and so is the volume so I'm not gonna bother with a sub or an amp. Oh, and I forgot to take pictures lol. The dash kit that I got looks real nice though, fits like a glove and looks like it came stock.

Thanks for the help everybody

[JC316]

Originally Posted by theJesus

Finally done and sounds pretty good. The bass is plenty and so is the volume so I'm not gonna bother with a sub or an amp. Oh, and I forgot to take pictures lol. The dash kit that I got looks real nice though, fits like a glove and looks like it came stock.

Thanks for the help everybody

Awesome. Told you the bass would be fine without the sub.

[theJesus]

Is it sad that I spent ~8 hours on this? lol

[jmcslob]

Originally Posted by theJesus

Is it sad that I spent ~8 hours on this? lol

No, if it's your first time..
I'm glad it sounds good too!

[theJesus]

Hmm, 8 hours times $19 = $152 of my time. I wonder how much it would have cost to have "professionally installed".

[JC316]

Originally Posted by theJesus

Is it sad that I spent ~8 hours on this? lol

Nah, not since it's your first time wiring up a stereo. Funny enough, of all the mechanic work I do, I love installing audio the most. I takes me about 2 hours for 4 speakers and a head unit, but again, I know what I am doing and I do it quite often.

Originally Posted by theJesus

Hmm, 8 hours times $19 = $152 of my time. I wonder how much it would have cost to have "professionally installed".

You saved money. Both in labor and the fact that it's done correctly with nothing broken. The "Professionals" SUCK.

[theJesus]

I think if I were to do it again (on the same car) I could get it done in 2-3 hours now.

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by JC316

If you want to keep it simple, don't even bother with the subwoofer. The acoustics in that cavalier are decent and if you go with Infinity or Alpine, you aren't going to need it. As for the head unit, go to wal-mart and get a pioneer unit. They run about $89 and they equal alpine in sound quality.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Pioneer-DE...-iPod/17217901

i will pretend that you never said alpine was = to pioneer.

[JC316]

Originally Posted by Solaris17

i will pretend that you never said alpine was = to pioneer.

I am not a brand loyalist, it's bang for the buck. Alpine is OK, but I have had nothing but positive results with my Pioneer stuff and cheaper than Alpine.

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by JC316

I am not a brand loyalist, it's bang for the buck. Alpine is OK, but I have had nothing but positive results with my Pioneer stuff and cheaper than Alpine.

ill give you that. I havent had any problems with my pioneer subs but iv had both and i can tell the diffirence as im sure you can but i really care about my audio so....the old JLs though sigh beautiful

[JC316]

Originally Posted by Solaris17

ill give you that. I havent had any problems with my pioneer subs but iv had both and i can tell the diffirence as im sure you can but i really care about my audio so....the old JLs though sigh beautiful

In the speaker department, Alpine blows pioneer right out of the water. I was talking head units.

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by JC316

In the speaker department, Alpine blows pioneer right out of the water. I was talking head units.

oh i misread then i take it back and sorry to have doubted you. ya head units dont make much diffirence at all.

EDIT:: to be honest though i notice a huge diff in my pioneer subs compaired to the old alpines. i just convinced myself you must be stoned and decided to be nice because your a cool guy.

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by theonedub

Should be don't buy cheap subs, not don't buy Pioneer. Maybe all you have heard is their low-end/entry level models, but someone who has actually used quality Pioneer/Premier equipment (as in the ones not in the demo booth at BestBuy) would know they are just as good as any other brand and are actually very competitive $ for $.

It would be foolish to take no sub over even that Pioneer sub when you are already severely handicapped with 4x6s up front (no bass, little mids) and 6x9s in back (exaggerated mids, muddy bass).

I would've gone with the 4x6s up front (assuming interior modification for comps is prohibited), a single midrange 12" sealed in the trunk, and no 6x9s in the shelf. Power everything off a 4ch amp capable of 3ch operation so that the bridged rear 2 channels power the subwoofer and the other 2 amplify the front 4x6s with the crossover initially set to 80hz and tuned from there.

Would have given you a very clear and pronounced front stage with excellent bass. With the 6x9 mounts open, more of the bass will penetrate the cabin so you wouldn't need an overly powerful (read: expensive) amplifier. No speaker would be starved for power and, should you ever be inclined, you could crank the thing up and still have very crisp sound.

I have never liked Pioneer subs in comparison to anything. I have played with their higher end crap. I still didn't like it. They felt cheap and sounded as such. As for your setup on the car...if you are going to comment on muddy speakers I would never get over a 10" sub especially if the goal is crisp sound. With a good EQ 6x9's and 5x7's are two of the better sounding car audio speakers. Even on a cheap deck its pretty easy to get rid of the exaggerated mids. Fade to the rear lower the mid range, raise the highs and play with the lows a smidge. That even works on attempting to fix OEM 6x9's.

Originally Posted by theJesus

Finally done and sounds pretty good. The bass is plenty and so is the volume so I'm not gonna bother with a sub or an amp. Oh, and I forgot to take pictures lol. The dash kit that I got looks real nice though, fits like a glove and looks like it came stock.

Thanks for the help everybody

Good to know. Glad to hear your rears actually fit in the rear deck. Mine needed to have the rear deck cut out to clear the magnet on the 6x9. It was a wee bit larger than stock.

[theJesus]

Originally Posted by JC316

I am not a brand loyalist, it's bang for the buck. Alpine is OK, but I have had nothing but positive results with my Pioneer stuff and cheaper than Alpine.

So far the only thing I don't like about my Alpine unit is that the screen is glossy and gets a lot of glare so I can't read it all the time. I'm using the line-in though so the only thing I need to see the screen for is when I'm adjusting something or if I want to know what time it is, so that's not a big deal. Besides I can imagine most units have that problem.

Originally Posted by cdawall

I have never liked Pioneer subs in comparison to anything. I have played with their higher end crap. I still didn't like it. They felt cheap and sounded as such. As for your setup on the car...if you are going to comment on muddy speakers I would never get over a 10" sub especially if the goal is crisp sound. With a good EQ 6x9's and 5x7's are two of the better sounding car audio speakers. Even on a cheap deck its pretty easy to get rid of the exaggerated mids. Fade to the rear lower the mid range, raise the highs and play with the lows a smidge. That even works on attempting to fix OEM 6x9's.



Good to know. Glad to hear your rears actually fit in the rear deck. Mine needed to have the rear deck cut out to clear the magnet on the 6x9. It was a wee bit larger than stock.

I kinda wanted to go with Alpine or one of the other brands you mentioned, but none of them were prime eligible so I couldn't get them soon enough unless I wanted to buy them local and pay more than they're worth.

I haven't done any tweaking beyond raising the bass and lowering the treble yet but the Infinity speakers still sound good to me. I noticed that I can adjust what frequency bands the bass/treble controls effect and also how wide the bass band affects, so I should be able to get a little better sound with some more tweaking.

edit: Yeah, my rears almost didn't fit. Not because they were too deep (the opening actually just goes straight to the trunk and has nothing under it), but because the stupid plastic holders that they go into were too small to go around the basket all the way and the holes were just a smidge too close together. What I ended up doing was using longer screws and angling them inwards to reach the holes, then tightening 'em with my drill so it bent the plastic around the basket (and almost snapped it lol). Then due to the way the holders go in the deck, I had trouble getting the magnet past the lip of the opening and had to push pretty hard. And then, because the plastic was bent, the front clip wasn't reaching to where it needed to snap in. One of them I managed to get by just pushing really hard. The other one, I had to loosen the front screws a bit to make it reach. End result: Those puppies aren't going anywhere.

[theonedub]

Originally Posted by cdawall

I have never liked Pioneer subs in comparison to anything. I have played with their higher end crap. I still didn't like it. They felt cheap and sounded as such. As for your setup on the car...if you are going to comment on muddy speakers I would never get over a 10" sub especially if the goal is crisp sound. With a good EQ 6x9's and 5x7's are two of the better sounding car audio speakers. Even on a cheap deck its pretty easy to get rid of the exaggerated mids. Fade to the rear lower the mid range, raise the highs and play with the lows a smidge. That even works on attempting to fix OEM 6x9's.

6x9's are only around because they are cheaper and because they allow for easy 'bass' that some people mistakenly perceive as quality. For listening to music in a car, you shouldn't even need or use rear speakers because they screw up the staging. So no, I would not fade to the rear and a 12 will be fine in a sealed enclosure for tight crisp bass.

I've gone through a few subwoofers, especially back when I was actively interested in car audio, and right now the Pioneer Premier TS-W3002SPL is my current daily sub. You'd be hard pressed to find a better built and sounding sub for the $150 street price it carried a couple years ago (and thats not technically Pioneer's high end either). Nothing cheap about that sub- other than the actual price

[theJesus]

[QUOTE=theonedub;217450]6x9's are only around because they are cheaper and because they allow for easy 'bass' that some people mistakenly perceive as quality. For listening to music in a car, you shouldn't even need or use rear speakers because they screw up the staging. So no, I would not fade to the rear and a 12 will be fine in a sealed enclosure for tight crisp bass./QUOTE]
You gotta remember that this was done on a budget and only meant to sound decent, not amazing lol. I don't pay a ton of attention to the music when I'm driving, so I don't need the sound to be great, just good enough that it doesn't bug the hell out of me.

[theJesus]

I got the bug and I'm gonna replace everything again. GF heard it and said she wants me to do her car too, so I'm just gonna move the current stuff to her car and get better stuff for mine.

I want a sub this time and either a more powerful head unit or a dedicated amp for the speakers. Instead of 6x9's in the rear, I'm gonna do 6.5" component setup. In the front, I think I can fit 6x9's if they aren't too deep (3 inches max, but less would be easier). I'd also like a dedicated EQ, but I don't think I have room for it since I've only got a DIN and a half, so maybe just a head unit with a nice EQ? No time constraints this time, so I can purchase from anywhere. Budget is undetermined as of yet.

[cdawall]

The front had 4x6" stock I have seen people cut them to fit 6.5" speakers, but you wont be fitting 6x9's easily. Good ones are also going to be deep. You would not gain any performance for the huge amount of work going into it. Don't do a stand alone EQ there is no gain the internal EQ should be plenty for anything any normal person.

For a smidge more than you spent last run this will give you a good bit more umph.

Head unit

http://www.amazon.com/Alpine-CDE-122...pine+head+unit

Sub amp

http://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosga...gate+amplifier

Sub

http://www.amazon.com/INFINITY-SERIE.../ref=de_a_smtd

sub box

http://www.amazon.com/300-Enclosure-...=10%22+sub+box

4 channel amp

http://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosga...gate+amplifier

Rear speakers

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Kappa...+kappa+perfect

Front speakers

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-629I-...nity+kappa+6.5

[theJesus]

A "smidge" more? lol that's over twice as much, but that's OK. Anyways, I still don't see the advantage of the CDE-122 vs the CDE-121 aside from Pandora (which I'll never use anyways).

[theJesus]

Oh, also, I forgot to mention the reason I want a dedicated EQ is because I'm not satisfied with the EQ on the Alpine unit. I mean, I'd at least like a 3-band EQ instead of just bass and treble . . .