Car Audio Help - replacing everything in '01 Cavalier -total n00b

[m1dg3t]

If you DBl em up i guess you can get away with it but i would still get some proper stuff.

[theJesus]

I figured it out. After replacing the ground strap, making it super secure, replacing the connector on the remote power and checking all the other connections, I thought I was good. Then after I was on the highway for 30 minutes it started cutting out again.

I flipped down the seats and held my camera behind me at an angle to where I could film and see what was going on with the LEDs while it cut out. Turns out the "protect" light was indeed coming on whenever it cut out.

Anyways, I turned the volume down and voila! That's it, the amp just couldn't handle what it was taking it. I think it's because I turned some freq. bands up past 0 on the EQ but forgot to set a negative volume offset. So, I went ahead and set a negative volume offset and now I can max it without issue.

However, there is still that little thing in the front right speaker that's making it sound like crap. Thankfully, the noise is drowned out when the volume is maxed lol.

Originally Posted by m1dg3t

If you DBl em up i guess you can get away with it but i would still get some proper stuff.

Single 12g is working fine on that amp.

[theonedub]

It seems like I always miss the good parts of this thread.

Anyway, you generally want to make sure your power and ground wires are the same gauge, so if you are running 0 gauge for your power you want 0 gauge grounds. I would bet that with matched grounds you could reverse whatever adjustments you made to correct the problem and the amp would not enter protection mode.

Semi OT:
Many online retailers and even audio shops sell 'fake' 0 gauge wire. Its got an unusually thick layer of insulation with the amount of copper of a standard 4ga wire. Just going off the descriptions of how you are manipulating the wire, I would guess your 0 gauge falls in this category. Its still more than enough for your setup though, just a note for future reference.

Its hard to tell if you've never worked with real 0ga before, but for s&g's go look at 4ga wire from a reputable shop in your area and compare it to your 0. The bright side is that you should be able to find 4ga wire easily to redo your ground properly.

I'll see if I can round up some of my spare/left over wire and show you pics of the differences.

[cdawall]

His is a cheapy 0 gauge but its also not pulling anything close to enough power to cause any issues.

[theonedub]

I found some real 4ga and some cheap 4ga, Ill shoot the pics tomorrow and post them up after I am done re-running some air lines on the S-10

Originally Posted by cdawall

His is a cheapy 0 gauge but its also not pulling anything close to enough power to cause any issues.

Yes, I mentioned it would not be a problem in my post

[JC316]

I don't get why people use the 0 gauge wire. I am throwing an amp in my mustang right now. 500W peak, 200w RMS. Assuming I am staying at RMS, we are talking 16.6 amps. Ran a 10 gauge wire fused at 20 amps by the battery. 10 gauge is rated for 30 amps, so I am 10 under and still within working RMS power. I can see the point if you are running multiple amplifiers, but even still a 6 gauge wire would be fine.

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by JC316

I don't get why people use the 0 gauge wire. I am throwing an amp in my mustang right now. 500W peak, 200w RMS. Assuming I am staying at RMS, we are talking 16.6 amps. Ran a 10 gauge wire fused at 20 amps by the battery. 10 gauge is rated for 30 amps, so I am 10 under and still within working RMS power. I can see the point if you are running multiple amplifiers, but even still a 6 gauge wire would be fine.

I ran 2 gauge in my sunfire and 4 gauge in the Jeep both are well under the wattage consumed but I worked at BBY when I got the sunflower parts so they were cheap and the amp I ordered came with the 4 gauge free. I would rather have and not need then peak both amps and burn up.

[JC316]

Originally Posted by cdawall

I ran 2 gauge in my sunfire and 4 gauge in the Jeep both are well under the wattage consumed but I worked at BBY when I got the sunflower parts so they were cheap and the amp I ordered came with the 4 gauge free. I would rather have and not need then peak both amps and burn up.

That is why I am fused by the battery and under the rated for the wire. There is 0 risk, if anything shorts out the fuse pops and nothing burns up.

[theJesus]

if anybody can get me 4ga wire, connectors, and a proper crimp tool for it (I had to use channel locks for the 0ga), then I'll replace my grounds. For now it's fine.

[Hate_Camel]

9 pages, tl;dr

Did you end up geting a head unit with bluetooth or USB connectivity?
I just thought what good would it do to do all this if you're limited to CDs and FM radio

[theJesus]

Originally Posted by Odameyer

9 pages, tl;dr

Did you end up geting a head unit with bluetooth or USB connectivity?
I just thought what good would it do to do all this if you're limited to CDs and FM radio

My unit has everything. I can even use it as a hands-free device for my phone and browse my phonebook and everything on it. I disabled that though because everybody said my voice kept cutting out.

All I really use though is the auxiliary input for my Sansa. Main reason I bought it was for advanced sound tuning options and the nice pre-outs.

[WhiteNoise]

Originally Posted by m1dg3t

Nice setup whitenoise! Those lil' boxxes are crossover networks. Regarding the material in the speaker; send it back. Should never have left the factory like that...

Whitenoise: Is that a 15" maelstrom by any chance?

It's a 15" SS RL-p D2 (SoundSplinter) It's a great sub.

I originally ran it inverted in a custom built sealed enclosure but got tired of that so I grabbed a prefabed sealed cube box (3/4" MDF) but it's a little too small. It is 3.2 cu.ft. and I'd prefer a 3.5-4 cu.ft. sealed box. But I'll have to build it myself and don't have the time right now.

Yeah those are cross-over units for my comps. I have another set of crossovers installed up front for my imaging tweets mounted on my dashboard.

The cross-overs by the amps are for my 6.5" CDT comps in all the doors.

In the past I had both sets of comps in the front door and kickpanels for a proper front stage but anyone in the rear got all the bass in their ears with less full range so I moved the kick panel comps to the rear doors.

[theJesus]

All I got out of that post was "I have lots of money" lol

[WhiteNoise]

Originally Posted by theJesus

All I got out of that post was "I have lots of money" lol

Maybe not lots but I have some to burn at times. Both my Wife and I have good jobs which puts our total anual income in the 6 figure range. So not loaded but we do okay.

[theJesus]

[voice=Borat]Very nice[/voice]

[theJesus]

I think my 4-channel amp is overheating and that's the problem. I mean, it gets way hotter than the mono amp, hot enough to where it almost burns to the touch. I can't get it as loud as I'd like without it triggering the protect circuit eventually and all my testing and everything is just leading me to think it's overheating.

Part of the problem with why I feel the need to turn it up higher might be 'cause the speakers can handle more power than the amp can give maybe? It's a Rockford Fosgate Prime R300-4 and it only does 50x4 watts RMS. My front speakers can handle 75 each and the rears 110 each (RMS).

I want to replace that amp with something smaller/cooler and maybe a bit more powerful.

[theJesus]

This JL Audio NexD XD400 looks really nice for what I'm after. Kinda pricey though . . .

[theonedub]

Amplifiers have efficiency ratings, just like a computer PSU. Most mono (sub) amps are class D which are highly efficient, whereas most full range amps (like your 4ch) are class A/B which are not very efficient. Just to throw some numbers for comparison- class D amps can be 85-95% efficient while class A/B amps are usually about 50-60% efficient. So for those amps there is a lot of energy wasted as heat, and that is why one feels cooler than the other.

It used to be that class D tech couldn't be used in full range amplifiers and was only found in subwoofer amps, but now you can find class D full range amps that sound decent and are fairly priced. Ill give you one guess as to what class that relatively more expensive full range JL amp is- thats right ClassD

Amps like your Prime are meant to work with high operating temperatures- the entire body is used as a giant heatsink and the engineers who designed them know that they are likely to be mounted in a trunk with little fresh air. The most important thing you can do is make sure the amp is not mounted on carpet and is not mounted upside down. Amp will cool best if its mounted right side up or on the vertical (like the back of a seat). If you have it on carpet you should consider getting a sheet of wood or even plexi/lexan to mount to the seatback or trunk, then mount the amplifier to that.

Sorry for the long post

[cdawall]

Call rockford up and see what they say about the amp. It shouldn't be popping the overcurrent. Even with my P200.2's bridged down to 2ohms (rated only for 4 ohms) they never popped the OCP. They were both class A/B's as well. Now they did get hot but never so hot you couldn't touch them, they were mounted to the back of my carpeted box and pushed against the seats in houston in a black car if anything else worked against them IDK what it is. You could have a defective amp. I would look really hard into that before buying a new amp.

For the time being I would bridge the amp run your rear 2 speakers off of that with your rears run off of the onboard amp in the head unit.

[theJesus]

Originally Posted by theonedub

Amplifiers have efficiency ratings, just like a computer PSU. Most mono (sub) amps are class D which are highly efficient, whereas most full range amps (like your 4ch) are class A/B which are not very efficient. Just to throw some numbers for comparison- class D amps can be 85-95% efficient while class A/B amps are usually about 50-60% efficient. So for those amps there is a lot of energy wasted as heat, and that is why one feels cooler than the other.

It used to be that class D tech couldn't be used in full range amplifiers and was only found in subwoofer amps, but now you can find class D full range amps that sound decent and are fairly priced. Ill give you one guess as to what class that relatively more expensive full range JL amp is- thats right ClassD

Amps like your Prime are meant to work with high operating temperatures- the entire body is used as a giant heatsink and the engineers who designed them know that they are likely to be mounted in a trunk with little fresh air. The most important thing you can do is make sure the amp is not mounted on carpet and is not mounted upside down. Amp will cool best if its mounted right side up or on the vertical (like the back of a seat). If you have it on carpet you should consider getting a sheet of wood or even plexi/lexan to mount to the seatback or trunk, then mount the amplifier to that.

Sorry for the long post

It's mounted on the back of my rear seats, which happen to be carpeted there.

Originally Posted by cdawall

Call rockford up and see what they say about the amp. It shouldn't be popping the overcurrent. Even with my P200.2's bridged down to 2ohms (rated only for 4 ohms) they never popped the OCP. They were both class A/B's as well. Now they did get hot but never so hot you couldn't touch them, they were mounted to the back of my carpeted box and pushed against the seats in houston in a black car if anything else worked against them IDK what it is. You could have a defective amp. I would look really hard into that before buying a new amp.

For the time being I would bridge the amp run your rear 2 speakers off of that with your rears run off of the onboard amp in the head unit.

Alright, I will call them before doing anything else. I mean, I'm experiencing this at times now even with the gain just under half-way (5 out of 11) and a negative volume offset coming out of the receiver.

[theonedub]

Put wood or plexi/lexan between the carpeted surface and your amp and you should see a large decrease in the temps of the amp. I can almost guarantee if you call RF they are going to ask you about the mounting setup of the amplifier, and the second you mention carpet they are not going to want to give you any help outside of 'get the amp off the carpet.'

Shoot me $5 to cover postage and I can send you 18" of spare 5ga wire (red) that I had left over from another project so you can upgrade your ground to the proper size- I'm confident that will alleviate some of the issues you are seeing. I could probably also spare a foot or two of 9ga wire (blue) that I usually use to connect voice coils on DVC subs for you to use on other random stuff, if wanted. I dont think I have any extra ring terminals after upgrading the grounds on a few vehicles, but I will look for one.

If interested, drop me a PM over @ TPU- I never seem to remember about this site.

[theJesus]

Thanks, I don't mind purchasing it, just gotta find it lol. It seems difficult to find suitable wire of that gauge just by itself and not in a kit.

edit: And I'll find something to put between the carpet and the amp

[m1dg3t]

You should be OK with 10g ground which you can even find @ a hardware store. It's only a ground, the wire itself doesnt have to be special you just need the proper gauge. Make sure all the crimps/conns are secure, i know it sounds redundant but sometimes they can jiggle loose. Putting the amp on a plate or even just adding some standoffs should help with cooling but as 1dub said these things are designed to produce some heat.

You should feel my Emos after a few hours of HT/music listening lol And i have them actively cooled....

Also what are you using for the primary gain? The head unit or the amps? Sorry if i missed it, try running the head unit a tad lower and adjust the gain on the amps. Sometimes things work better like this, has to do with matching impedences/voltages blah blah blah.....

Edit: @ 1dub; I use 10g solid core to wire up my dual 13's, the bigger the better

[theJesus]

I'm using the head for primary gain control. I mean, I would love if my arms could reach into my trunk and I could see what I was doing back there while driving, but that simply isn't the case

Right now the ground is 12g stranded with proper connectors on both ends and very secure (I made sure of that). Everything else was secure when I checked as well. I'd like to get some 4g power wire since my little splitter box thingy takes the 0g from the battery and steps it down to two 4g outputs. Using the 0g in the 4g holes sucks since I had to pull back and tape off extra strands. Also, I'd like proper ring connectors that will fit the amps. (everything I see either has too large of a ring or is too small gauge)

[m1dg3t]

You do the main adjustment in your driveway/parking lot then if you have the need for a .0004Db increase bump the gain on the head unit