SO I've got this client....

[CyberDruid]

That has already wasted several hours of my time for which I can't bill...most of it spent answering messages and looking at other technician's work that is not applicable to what I have been contracted to perform.

And at least a couple more hours spent researching elements of a project the client decides to abandon.

If I were getting paid to do the research and chat about random shit I would be happy to discard project elements shoot the bull for weeks, even months on end. Hell research is easy compared to actually building something. I just want to get paid for it.

And if that were not aggravation enough he likes to go back and forth on decisions.

So are we doing element X or not?

Who knows...in two more emails it'll probably change.

Seems like I never quite get it figured out, this contracted service fuckery. What I know is that if I am too polite, too available, too chatty I end up making no money. I guess I should start off every contract by stating up front that I bill for any consultation and the time it takes to research the project. That way the more the client wastes my time the more money I make.

I'll get it one day.

[de.das.dude]

so... this was just lamenting and nothing funny?
this prob is bad and common. face it and live with it.

[sneekypeet]

I don't think a consulting fee is out of line. I for one know you are pretty busy once you get the bug to get back in the shop. I mean if we were to strike a deal on a basic concept, I don't see why you shouldn't feel comfy charging (maybe a bit less for Google searching and easy legwork) but I would have no issues paying a bit more for the ability to drop a concept in your lap and getting a slightly adjusted bill with your time involved. Assuming you would be up front with an estimate, hell even a mechanic can change pricing, and we don't want to pay them, at least with you we get a piece of art to go with the artsy price

[MT Alex]

What the Hell? Doesn't this guy know you don't talk to a legend for free?

On a serious note, as a contractor I charge time, materials, and a flat percentage for business profit, usually 12%. The materials are all annotated, the time I charge for is strictly for tool time, and the percentage covers the shit no one likes to do, which can be extensive when dealing with a lot of sub contractor coordination and such, as well as (none yet) call backs. Shit, most contractors charge the same percentage on materials, a $42 sheet of stock will be billed at $47.

I find it damn hard to charge for chat time. Number one, the client is usually footing a fat bill already. Number two, it makes me feel like an elitist piece of trash who takes themselves way too serious and doesn't mind fucking other people for money - in other words: a lawyer.

[twilyth]

Can't you just require detailed specifications prior to starting the project? Then, require 50% payment up front. If there are problems, require the client to submit to arbitration as part of the deal.

People will abuse you to the extent that you let them. The trick is not to go to the opposite extreme and be a dick. That's really hard to do when you know that a client is intentionally wasting your time - and there are people like that out there.

As long as you spell things out from the beginning, there is less chance of there being an issue. And you don't have to do this verbally. In your contract just include a document detailing your policies - inclusion by reference. Say that the contents of the document are included in the contract as they were physically reproduced there. Put the contract on your web page and include it as an attachment in your communications. Then if they don't read it, well, too fuckin' bad.

[CyberDruid]

First off I have never charged a consulting fee...at least not yet...

But now that I am a Legend...and an Elitist...that could all change

And sadly I did hammer out detailed specs of what the client wanted from me...but that did not keep him from getting excited. Not did it keep him from completely changing his mind lol.

I guess talking to a legend is exciting...

[MT Alex]

I usually find it to be.

On the contrary, I wasn't referring to you as an elitist. You may have 'leet skills, but you are much to straight forward to ever be considered a lawyer. My previous post was expressing my own thoughts, and may not reflect the opinions of Time/Warner, the director or the views of our sponsors.

Slap a percentage on his ass.

[CyberDruid]

Originally Posted by MT Alex

I usually find it to be.

On the contrary, I wasn't referring to you as an elitist. You may have 'leet skills, but you are much to straight forward to ever be considered a lawyer. My previous post was expressing my own thoughts, and may not reflect the opinions of Time/Warner, the director or the views of our sponsors.

Slap a percentage on his ass.

Part of the problem with electronic communication is being 100% on the same page lol.

I am hoping that today we stay on the same page and can make some things happen. I have high hopes.

Plus last night I was getting really tired from all the PC-related searching and what not. I need to get out in the shop and make stuff.

[mlee49]

Write an invoice...

LIKE A BOSS

Charge a fee...

LIKE A BOSS

Be a legend...

LIKE A BOSS

let'm deal with it

LIKE A BOSS

[CyberDruid]

wait

I'm a Boss? Holy Fuck. I need to straighten this shit out!

lol

[Namslas90]

Every company has a "Company Policies Disclaimer Statement".

Have your boss write one up...lol

[CyberDruid]

[Bundy]

Originally Posted by CyberDruid

What I know is that if I am too polite, too available, too chatty I end up making no money. I guess I should start off every contract by stating up front that I bill for any consultation and the time it takes to research the project. That way the more the client wastes my time the more money I make.

I'll get it one day.

^^^^This. Only this puts food on the table CD, legend or not. No need to be frightened about this cos if they are genuine, your rules will make no difference. If they are tire kickers, you don't want to waste your time anyway.

[entropy13]

Maybe this could have helped you:
Next time, follow Wally. lol