How far out of touch with reality do you need to be to stay mentally healthy?

[twilyth]

This is the sort of discussion that can't even be properly framed since concepts like "reality" and "mental health" are slippery at best, and I do mean 'at best.' But I guess for simplicity, we can use some sort of general consensus as to what most people would regard as having a realistic outlook on the world and how it works - including the people we interact with.

My point in asking the question is that if you over analyze anything, you always end up in a situation where you have incomplete information and have to rely on certain basic assumptions. The assumptions you pick can be regarded as being more or less realistic.

For example, say you're standing in line for something. You ask the person behind you to hold your spot for a minute. When you come back, do you really expect the person to have honored your request, or do you think it's just as likely that they'll have decided to take your place in line?

But what I'm really trying to get at is your perception of your own internal reality. Do you find people making observations about you which seem to be at odds about how you view yourself or do your self perceptions seem to reflect the perceptions that others have about you? More importantly, if there is a divergence, do you that there ought not to be and alternatively, if who you see yourself as and who other see you as seem to mesh, does that seem fundamentally flawed to you?

I know I haven't really laid this out very well, but I think this will develop with the discussion - to the extent that there is one I suppose.

[razaron]

I'll reply for oda and m1dg3t,
<insert generic hippy reply here>

[twilyth]

I probably should have responded with the OP.

In order to interact with people on a level that seems normal, I have to shut down on a variety of levels. I can't be more specific, since it's been a while. I just know that the last time I could really relate to people and just do normal things like hang out, go to a movie, etc, it was only if I was stoned. Otherwise, I just don't have the patience, don't see the point, etc, etc.

Beyond that, I've always been acutely aware of my own mortality and it's taken me a long time to come to terms with that. Most of the time I don't really need any type of attenuation between my perception of that reality and its emotional impact, but there are times when it feels like one of the bodies in the basement just won't stay buried.

[theJesus]

Bloody hell man, go read a fucking book or something.

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by twilyth

This is the sort of discussion that can't even be properly framed since concepts like "reality" and "mental health" are slippery at best, and I do mean 'at best.' But I guess for simplicity, we can use some sort of general consensus as to what most people would regard as having a realistic outlook on the world and how it works - including the people we interact with.

My point in asking the question is that if you over analyze anything, you always end up in a situation where you have incomplete information and have to rely on certain basic assumptions. The assumptions you pick can be regarded as being more or less realistic.

For example, say you're standing in line for something. You ask the person behind you to hold your spot for a minute. When you come back, do you really expect the person to have honored your request, or do you think it's just as likely that they'll have decided to take your place in line?

But what I'm really trying to get at is your perception of your own internal reality. Do you find people making observations about you which seem to be at odds about how you view yourself or do your self perceptions seem to reflect the perceptions that others have about you? More importantly, if there is a divergence, do you that there ought not to be and alternatively, if who you see yourself as and who other see you as seem to mesh, does that seem fundamentally flawed to you?

I know I haven't really laid this out very well, but I think this will develop with the discussion - to the extent that there is one I suppose.

I actually think this is a fantastic discussion. To elaborate further i am going to break it down by answering your test situation and elaborate on my responses. I get sick this time of year (temp changes= lung problems) so im having a hard time keeping focus. But I think I will enjoy this topic alot.

For example, say you're standing in line for something. You ask the person behind you to hold your spot for a minute. When you come back, do you really expect the person to have honored your request, or do you think it's just as likely that they'll have decided to take your place in line?

I think this is a hard scenario to answer. you see I personally think the reality is diffirent for everyone else. like training really. in certain reagions people act a certain way. This scews things for people that travel their "basic" assumtions while inherently flawed to begin with as your going with a "gut" feeling are even more offset by the fact that for example you are in a city. Now I have been to both I currently live in the sticks. I have lived in the city. In the city it seems people are more aggressive passive requests like this require a diffirent default then one in the sticks. Modified version. Im at a 7-11 and forget to grab a drink. Im in the city. I ask someone to hold my spot. In the city I do not expect that to play out in my favor. I ask as a test. People do not enjoy confrentation. So by asking he has to "play to his reality" size me up or down. am I the kind of person via body language tone and size that seems like i would cause a problem if he stole my spot? Or would I back down if he called my bluff? Would I even care? The same happens to me I run the checks before i even ask. Im in a city so I probably wont get it back. but is this guy going to flip if i ask? is it even worth my time? in the country though. I lean tward the opposite more. I assume my spot will be saved the people are more pleasent and have more social "give".

Personal reality is far more diffirent. I find it easier to "nail" someones general attitude ideology etc. However like the saying you are your hardest judge I find it harder to classify myself. I also find it hard to guage my own performance because of "over analyzing" such as a verbal argument. I have a hard time telling if i am winning. Its harder then it seems. If they are any less astute then myself i need to tone it down so I dont lose them but still throw enough "big words" at them to get the "out gunned" message across. Arguments considered its also hard for me personally in most cases to defend someone well in the same aspect. I need to stick up for them without embarassing them. Its a harder task than one would think.

Things i find fundementaly flawed due to personal reality? The way my friends treat me. Its actually very odd. My friends and even their aquintences when being introduced to me say my full name. First and last. The problem? I am not a buisiness man. I am also in some cases not older then the person. I am also more often then not, not introduced in a professional environment. Nor do I usually do something to warrent such respect. Do I like it? Yes of course Im very honred and humbled by it. However these same friends. Also append my last name. In this case we will go with Mr. Solaris Between friends I am usually never called by my first name. It has nothing to do with what my first name is its quite common its just never spoken. Now like iv said while I do appreciate it I can also admit I never reciprocate it. In a professional environment I probably would. but they are friends we dont even work with each other. infact we arent interested in the same fields. We all have expertice. ill throw a few examples.

Me:Computers
friend 1: pro machanic
friend 2: pro painter
friend 3: builds sound systems (speaker design)
friend 4: she is a professional photgrapher at hallmark
friend 5: installs hometheater systems for BB

we all do "favors" for one another because all of us arent particularly "experts" at the others field. I can change a spark plug but he can rebuild an engine. she can turn her pc on. but i take the viruses off. its all a trade. no money changes hands and we are all good for it. how does this play into my personal reality?

Well while I value our friendship and enjoy the respect. I personally dont do for them anything more astonishing then they do for me. you see I dont call them mr or miss. So our pro relationships shouldnt matter. and they are all experts in their respective fields so they dont owe me any more then i owe them. going further I also dont seem that exrodinary. Im pleasent and nice. I dont fight or have a bad thing to say about anyone. I can be a little "brash" When they want my opinion on anything I give them my opinon good friend or not they get it straight weather it feels like salt on a mental wound depends on what side of the fence their on when they ask. I dont sugar coat. That said im also kind of a push over. id do anything for friends. Im currently out of the job and in all honesty doing a little rough. but if one of them wanted my loaf of bread I would give it to them. I dont demand respect im nice not really intimidating and other then what my skills allow me to do just another normal guy. This is a dynamic I dont see in myself. Everyone else apparently can. Even the "aquantences" or random joes im introdced to younger or older will call me by my last name with mr appended to it. until we become close then they will say my full name. in my reality im just solaris just a normal guy i live in an apartment i own a cat I enjoy soup and mountain dew. I drive a jeep and im not that extrodinary. That is my reality. theirs differs.

[theJesus]

You need to go read a book or something too, Sol. BTW, happy bday in advance.

[xaira]

im a pessimist, i expect the worst but i hope for something better, i think its a result of the fact that my parents are the exact opposite, they expect the best and are utterly shocked if anything other than the absolute best possible outcome occurs, its said that this optimistic characteristic of humanity is necessary because it keeps us pushing forward and taking risks so...

i see myself as i am, although alot of my family believe that im a lost cause, they utterly forget how much of a hard worker i was at my last job leaving home at 6am and getting back home after 8pm, just because i feel to stay home a little and do nothing they say im lazy...but this is pessimism...so i dont know how it works, but there are 7billion of us so its working

[m1dg3t]

I see Twilyth is in an introspective/philosophical mood, or is this an under cover sociological study/experiment?

Great "answer" Solaris! I concur with you on a lot of those point's/observation's and admittedly can relate to that/those scenarios almost to a T, fuckin' scary!

@ razaron: Last week i was a commie (think you called me that no?) today i'm a hippie! Make up your mind lol Joke's aside that was a well thought out response as well, not as in depth as Solaris' but short n' to the point

I gotta try and contribute something to this tomorrow

Posted from my phone

[DannibusX]

TMM is the most healthy poster on GN.

Or is it magibeg?

[DanTheBanjoman]

Originally Posted by Solaris17

Me:Computers
friend 1: pro machanic
friend 2: pro painter
friend 3: builds sound systems (speaker design)
friend 4: she is a professional photgrapher at hallmark
friend 5: installs hometheater systems for BB

That's how far you're out of touch with reality.

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by dannibusx

tmm is the most healthy poster on gn.

Or is it magibeg?

tmm

[theJesus]

Seems like Dan and I are the only ones that don't need to go read a fucking book.

[Frick]

I'm reading the Dune trilogy right now.

[erocker]

Reality is a matter of opinion. Subjective if you will.

[razaron]

Originally Posted by erocker

Reality is a matter of opinion. Subjective, if you will.

ftfy

[erocker]

Originally Posted by razaron

ftfy

for the fucking.. yurt? yogurt? Yemen? yellow?

[theJesus]

Originally Posted by erocker

for the fucking.. yurt? yogurt? Yemen? yellow?

Fucking the filthy yogurt.

[DanTheBanjoman]

Originally Posted by theJesus

Seems like Dan and I are the only ones that don't need to go read a fucking book.

Becoming well read would make me even more annoying, it would serve nobody.

[erocker]

Originally Posted by DanTheBanjoman

Becoming well read would make me even more annoying, it would serve nobody.

That statement is so very true for most people.

[Brandenburg]

Originally Posted by erocker

Reality is a matter of opinion. Subjective if you will.

Well ...Reality is a matter of individual perception of the events around that person

[Brandenburg]

Originally Posted by theJesus

Seems like Dan and I are the only ones that don't need to go read a fucking book.

You need to do some re-writting of that book.. we call the bible..in 2000 years.. ppl.... have really fucked up the original meaning

Get to work.. Nao..!!!

[Steevo]

Originally Posted by twilyth

I probably should have responded with the OP.

In order to interact with people on a level that seems normal, I have to shut down on a variety of levels. I can't be more specific, since it's been a while. I just know that the last time I could really relate to people and just do normal things like hang out, go to a movie, etc, it was only if I was stoned. Otherwise, I just don't have the patience, don't see the point, etc, etc.

Beyond that, I've always been acutely aware of my own mortality and it's taken me a long time to come to terms with that. Most of the time I don't really need any type of attenuation between my perception of that reality and its emotional impact, but there are times when it feels like one of the bodies in the basement just won't stay buried.

I also tend to over analize things, first you need to find a good friend who understands you as you are, that you trust, and lean to enjoy things in life again. Once you do things will become more enjoyable, but you will have to struggle with your feelings, thoughts, and doubts about the reality of not playing out scenarios with multiple endings in your head.

[theJesus]

Originally Posted by Brandenburg

You need to do some re-writting of that book.. we call the bible..in 2000 years.. ppl.... have really fucked up the original meaning

Get to work.. Nao..!!!

What the fuck are you talking about? I'm not the author of that pile of shit.

[Hate_Camel]

Good OP

but unfortunately

[remixedcat]

I know the feling and I'm sick of lying to myself just to feel a teensy bit further from spiralling...