Camaro 1LE a Boss Combatant?

[1Kurgan1]

Just was reading about this in Car Craft last night and it sounds pretty impressive. Borrowing some suspension goodies from the ZL1 and a few new things, they say it does under 3 min around VIR (I heard it beats the GT500 which does 2.58), to put that into greater perspective, only a handful of production cars have been only slightly faster. ZR-1: 2.45, GT-R: 2.53, 911 GT# RS: 2.55. If the thing lives up to the talk Chevy might have taken back the Muscle Car Crown (and I know the ZL-1 and GT500 are considered Muscle Cars, but I just feel they are too high priced to truly be considered). Anyways here's the press release.

(It won't be getting ZR-1 striping, those are concept pics)

The road-racing inspired Camaro 1LE performance package returns for 2013 with unique gearing, suspension tuning, and tires that makes the model capable of more than 1 g of lateral acceleration and a sub-three minute lap time at Virginia International Raceway’s Grand Course. It is offered on Camaro SS coupes with manual transmissions.

“The Camaro 1LE combines the best elements of the SS and ZL1 to take road-racing performance to a whole new level,” said Al Oppenheiser, Camaro chief engineer. “That the 1LE breaks the three-minute lap at VIR puts it in the upper echelon of performance cars. That it starts under $40,000 makes the Camaro 1LE one of the most affordable, most capable track-day cars offered by any manufacturer.”

In anticipation of consumers entering the 1LE in amateur-racing events, Chevrolet is pursuing SCCA approval of the 1LE package for Touring Class competition. For 2013, all Camaro SS models including the 1LE will feature standard variable-effort electric power steering and an available dual-mode exhaust system. Both features were introduced on the ZL1. Additionally, 2013 Camaro LT, SS and ZL1 models are available with Chevrolet’s color touch radio with MyLink infotainment system.

Camaro sales were up nearly 20 percent for the first two months of the year, building on an 8.5-percent gain for all of 2011. The 1LE package goes on sale this fall with the 2013 Camaro line. Pricing will be released later this year.

A heritage of handling
The Camaro 1LE package was introduced in 1988, inspired by Camaro’s involvement in Pro-Am road racing.

For 2013, the 1LE package is offered only on 1SS and 2SS coupe models, featuring a 6.2L LS3 V-8, which is rated at 426 horsepower (318 kW) and 420 lb-ft of torque (569 Nm). In addition, 1LE is only available with a six-speed manual transmission. While the Camaro SS features a Tremec TR6060-M10 for all-around performance, the Camaro 1LE features an exclusive Tremec TR6060-MM6. Paired with a numerically higher 3.91 final-drive ratio, the close-ratio gearing of the transmission is tuned for road-racing performance. As with the ZL1, the 1LE transmission features a standard air-to-liquid cooling system for track use. The 1LE also features exclusive, monotube rear dampers instead of the twin-tube dampers on SS models. The new hardware allowed engineers to tune the 1LE suspension to focus on optimal body-motion control while preserving much of the ride quality and wheel-motion control of the Camaro SS.

Other changes to optimize the 1LE for track-day use include:

Larger, 27-mm solid front stabilizer bar, and 28-mm solid rear stabilizer bar for improved body control
Higher-capacity rear-axle half shafts to cope with increased levels of traction
Strut tower brace for improved steering feel and response
ZL1-based 20 x 10-inch front and 20 x 11-inch aluminum wheels
285/35ZR20 Goodyear Eagle Supercar G:2 tires front and rear (identical to the front tires for ZL1)
ZL1 wheel bearings, toe links and rear shock mounts for improved on-track performance
ZL1 high-capacity fuel pump and additional fuel pickups for improved fuel delivery during high-cornering
Visually, the 1LE package for 2013 is distinguished by its matte-black hood, front splitter and rear spoiler – as well as the 10-spoke ZL1-based wheels, which are finished in black. The functional front splitter and rear spoiler contribute to the car’s on-track performance by helping to reduce aerodynamic lift at high speeds.

Inside, the 1LE package incorporates the ZL1’s flat-bottom steering wheel, trimmed in sueded-microfiber and designed for easier heel-and-toe driving on the racetrack. The quick-acting, short-throw shifter from the ZL1 is also trimmed in sueded microfiber.

Source

[JC316]

It's very impressive. It would be more impressive if they shaved 500lbs off from it. Still think the boss will kick it's ass.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by JC316

It's very impressive. It would be more impressive if they shaved 500lbs off from it. Still think the boss will kick it's ass.

It would be nice to see some weight loss, I don't know if these rims are any lighter, but if they are thats a nice weight loss. Also if the times are right for VIR, the Boss ran a 3.02, so if the Camaro is as quick as they say, it might be the other way around. I'm just sad they didn't add a bit more tower. But they wanted to keep it under 40k, so that makes sense.

[Steevo]

Ford must feel like the world is going to end, GM is making a car like this Obama has higher approval ratings, people are understanding the healthcare issue for what it is.......

[m1dg3t]

FUGLY.

[1Kurgan1]

I like the way the new Camaro's look in general. I feel they are a bit tall, but beyond that good looking cars. Saying fugly, I would think you probably don't like the look of Gen 5 Camaro's overall.

[WhiteNoise]

Thats a sick car. I just don't like the two black stripes in the drivers fender.

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by JC316

It's very impressive. It would be more impressive if they shaved 500lbs off from it. Still think the boss will kick it's ass.

I hope so. I still think the Camaro is a heavy as hell fugly ass car.

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

It would be nice to see some weight loss, I don't know if these rims are any lighter, but if they are thats a nice weight loss. Also if the times are right for VIR, the Boss ran a 3.02, so if the Camaro is as quick as they say, it might be the other way around. I'm just sad they didn't add a bit more tower. But they wanted to keep it under 40k, so that makes sense.

If being the key word. I also don't see Ford letting that fly I have no doubts there will be an extra 25-30HP in the Boss.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by WhiteNoise

Thats a sick car. I just don't like the two black stripes in the drivers fender.

Look at the sentence under the pictures Those were just something they were toying with when it was a concept.

Originally Posted by cdawall

If being the key word. I also don't see Ford letting that fly I have no doubts there will be an extra 25-30HP in the Boss.

It's possible, but the Camaro has already been priced a bit lower than the Mustang. And the Mustang already has a bit extra power on the Camaro. I think more likely the Boss will get a small price drop and some more suspension tuning or a bit of weight loss.

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

It's possible, but the Camaro has already been priced a bit lower than the Mustang. And the Mustang already has a bit extra power on the Camaro. I think more likely the Boss will get a small price drop and some more suspension tuning or a bit of weight loss.

What I find odd with GM's "numbers" is the mustang is lighter, has more HP, and has proven to handle better. Yet the Camaro is 4 seconds faster around the track.

Boss has 444HP, weighs around 3600...Camaro 426HP and weighs in at a hefty 4K+ judging from the ZL1. Only thing that would even remotely make sense in the Camaro having an advantage is some new shoes that grip better than the Boss.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by cdawall

What I find odd with GM's "numbers" is the mustang is lighter, has more HP, and has proven to handle better. Yet the Camaro is 4 seconds faster around the track.

Boss has 444HP, weighs around 3600...Camaro 426HP and weighs in at a hefty 4K+ judging from the ZL1. Only thing that would even remotely make sense in the Camaro having an advantage is some new shoes that grip better than the Boss.

You mean the Boss is proven to handle better than the SS not the 1LE (which is what this thread is about). Theres numerous suspension changes to this car as well (infact pretty massive ones). And while the Boss has amazed people by what it's doing with a live rear axle, theoretically with the independent rear end on the Camaro it should be more capable. You seem to be comparing the wrong cars here, you are comparing the Boss handling to the SS. And you are comparing the weight of what is in-between the GT and the Boss (Boss weighs 3650lbs) to the ZL1 (which will weigh more it has a supercharger and intercooler adding weight). The SS weighs in at 3750, so 100lbs more than the Boss, depending on wheel weight here, since thats the only thing I can see dropping the weight, it could be around 3700lbs - 3800lbs, so it might be withing 50lbs of the Boss. And if the suspension tweaks really are that great, then it makes perfect sense that it's a bit quicker around a track (I'm sure it won't be down the strip).

[cdawall]

Oh good god live axles suck and GM's superior IRS which has proven to outperform all of the mustangs live axle variants or is it just the GT500 vs ZL1? I compared the ZL1 because it has a lot of the suspension mods supposed to be in the 1LE. Those parts are not weight free. The ZL1 does not gain 400lbs from the supercharger. Even with a intercooler it doesn't add 400lbs. Between the supercharged GT500 there is a 227lb weight deficit between the two. Admittedly on a curvy track the Camaro wins that one. 3.73's and a very well designed IRS will do that. I feel if Ford swapped the GT500 out for a set of 3.55's or 3.73's to replace the 3.31's we would see some nice pulls out of corners, but then again it already outruns the ZL1 by .5sec and 12mph in the quarter. Maybe we will see a flip flop with the higher end models Ford faster in a straight line and Chevy faster in the corners. That's one hell of a flip flop from other models.

I think the Boss will surprise some people it already hot lapped Leguna Seca at 1.40.2/1.40.4 which is mind you 4 full seconds faster than the 2010 GT500. It is 200lbs lighter than the 2012 GT500 and equipped with 3.73's.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by cdawall

Oh good god live axles suck and GM's superior IRS which has proven to outperform all of the mustangs live axle variants or is it just the GT500 vs ZL1? I compared the ZL1 because it has a lot of the suspension mods supposed to be in the 1LE. Those parts are not weight free. The ZL1 does not gain 400lbs from the supercharger. Even with a intercooler it doesn't add 400lbs. Between the supercharged GT500 there is a 227lb weight deficit between the two. Admittedly on a curvy track the Camaro wins that one. 3.73's and a very well designed IRS will do that. I feel if Ford swapped the GT500 out for a set of 3.55's or 3.73's to replace the 3.31's we would see some nice pulls out of corners, but then again it already outruns the ZL1 by .5sec and 12mph in the quarter. Maybe we will see a flip flop with the higher end models Ford faster in a straight line and Chevy faster in the corners. That's one hell of a flip flop from other models.

I think the Boss will surprise some people it already hot lapped Leguna Seca at 1.40.2/1.40.4 which is mind you 4 full seconds faster than the 2010 GT500. It is 200lbs lighter than the 2012 GT500 and equipped with 3.73's.

I'm not sure what your first sentence is getting at since supposedly the 1LE "bests" all of the Stangs (even the GT500, but it's all rumor until they release the time, also the new GT500 hasn't been around VIR yet). And of course large sway bars, strut tower braces, and stronger half shafts will add weight, but none of those will come even close to the weight added by the ZL1's SC and IC, not even close. Digging around a bit it seems the 1LE rims are the same as the ZL1 rims, and wheel/tire weight difference between the ZL1 and SS is a loss of 22lbs, which most likely will almost completely combat any of that weight gained from the suspension. My point was, most of that weight gained on the ZL is going to be the result of the FI kit, the suspension will add some, but not nearly as much, so a better comparison is the SS weight rather than the 400lb heavier ZL1 weight (especially if those rim numbers are right).

But yeah I think that Ford would be best off tinkering more with suspension rather than adding HP, though more power wouldn't hurt I'm sure, just probably would add to cost. If these numbers are true it does seem like the Mustang will be the straight line winner and the Camaro will be best in the corners. Either way both of them are quick, and it's nice to see Chevy toss some competition out there for the Boss, though I think a more iconic name would have been a better choice, I mean why not Z28? Also like you mention Laguna Seca, it will be interesting to see if the Camaro can consistently lap faster at many tracks, or was the suspension just tuned perfectly for VIR?

[cdawall]

First off the GT500 only gains 200lbs over the normal 5.0L Mustang this is bumping to the 5.8L and adding a supercharger and intercooler. Somehow GM added another 200lbs on top of that using the same 6.2L in other models and lighter weight rims/tires. Either the bigger differential in them is a pig or there is a lot more random shit stuffed in them.

My comment comparing the GT500 and ZL1 is simply because those are the two cars compared the ZL1 lost in the straights but won in the corners. It is possible the new 1LE will beat the GT500 in corners but there is no way it wins overall on a track. The Boss comparison with it will be fun to watch they are pretty similar vehicles. It would be amusing to see Ford win with a solid axle yet again since they are such a terrible dino tech. I wouldn't be surprised if GM one track tuned the suspension, but with a 1.03 skidpad we will see.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by cdawall

First off the GT500 only gains 200lbs over the normal 5.0L Mustang this is bumping to the 5.8L and adding a supercharger and intercooler. Somehow GM added another 200lbs on top of that using the same 6.2L in other models and lighter weight rims/tires. Either the bigger differential in them is a pig or there is a lot more random shit stuffed in them.

My comment comparing the GT500 and ZL1 is simply because those are the two cars compared the ZL1 lost in the straights but won in the corners. It is possible the new 1LE will beat the GT500 in corners but there is no way it wins overall on a track. The Boss comparison with it will be fun to watch they are pretty similar vehicles. It would be amusing to see Ford win with a solid axle yet again since they are such a terrible dino tech. I wouldn't be surprised if GM one track tuned the suspension, but with a 1.03 skidpad we will see.

The GT500 probably only gains 200lbs because the GT (remember) has a live rear axle, the GT500 doesn't. It's apples to oranges when saying GT to GT500 as 1LE is to ZL1, at least as far as weight goes simply because of that. Also not sure on the Magentic Suspenions weight, and the ZL1 does have more gizmo's, it's a pig but it does handle great at least. **EDIT** From what I see from GT weight to GT500 weight, it's a 400lb increase as well, the 200lbs or so you are getting is from Boss weight to GT500 weight 9and of course that weight bump won't be as large as the Boss already has suspension goodies). So the Mustang leap in weight is actually just about on par with the Camaro's. Though it looks like the new GT500's lost about 80lbs, so 320lb gain or so.

I never commented on your comparison of the GT500 and the ZL1 though, infact I didn't think you were comparing them since this threads about the 1LE. Unless your talking about the straightline performance numbers, then I knew you were comparing those, but I already basically said that the Camaro would be faster around the corners and slower down the straights (granted I said it about the 1LE, but same goes for the ZL1 after the GT500 got a large boost in power). It will be interesting to see the reviews. I don't think it would be funny if the Boss ended up nudging out the Camaro, even if it is live rear axle. It's lighter and more powerful, the 1LE has it's work cut out for it, the only advantage it does have is independent rear suspension, the question just is... is that enough?

[cdawall]

umm the GT500 has a live rear axle...

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t/viewall.html

I also do not see were you get 400lbs. The 2013 mustang GT V8 weighs 3618lbs the 2013 GT500 weighs 3871lbs incase your math is rough that's 253lbs. The Boss only weighs 3631lbs. Comparing the GT500 to the GT is quite simple. Major change being the motor, but they both carry a Ford 8.8" 31 spline live rear axle. The last IRS Cobra's were 1999-2004 nothing has been since. As far as upgrades go a fancy supercharger, suspension mods, body kit, and a bigger motor sounds like a one for one comparo to the ZL1 and GT 500

There has already been a comparison between the 2012 GT500 and 2012 ZL1 Camaro the Camaro won on a curvy track and lost every straight line test.

[1Kurgan1]

Ah, I haven't looked too much into GT500's (mostly because this thread is about comparing the 1LE to the Boss, not really the GT500).

But calm down buddy, we all have calculators here. It all matters on what weight you are seeing, I've seen the GT's listed anywhere from 3533lbs to 3720lbs, so if you want to use the later number the GT500 gains almost no weight. Either way comparing the GT to the GT500 still isn't so easy since theres numerous differences between the 5.0 Coyote and the 5.8 Mod (yes they are both mods, but the Coyote is drastically different). So in order to get a real idea on the amount of weight the SC system adds you need to find block weights for the 5.8 (or 5.4 as they can't be much different since it seems the 5.8 is a 5.4 with removed liners) and for the coyote. Problem with that is there is no NA aluminum 5.4 or 5.8 to compare with. The only thing I can find are block weights and the 5.4L is 10lbs lighter than the 5.0. So to try and figure this out, I can't imagine the suspension is all that much different from the Boss to the GT500 (and even if it has small changes the Boss by your numbers only gained roughly 20 lbs with its suspension tweaks, so any more gains would be minimal). And from what I'm reading the 13' GT500 also has a CF driveshaft to cut another 14lbs. It looks like (if the rest of the longblock matches the 5.0's weight then I would assume the 5.8L comes in around 430lbs (5.0 is like 444lbs). So Boss weight of 3631lb - 14lb (driveshaft) - 10lb (block weight) = 3607. And a GT500 weighs in at 3871 the weight difference between those numbers is 264lbs, like I was saying, an SC setup is way the hell heavier than those suspension bits. Though I'm sure the rear end upgrades aren't light either on the 1LE or the ZL1. And once again this thread is not about GT500 vs ZL1, I'm not talking about comparing them, you keep bringing them back into this. All I said originally was that comparing the weight of the 1LE to the ZL1 doesn't make much sense, since it lacks the SC which is what adds most of the weight (not all), and the "rough" math above supports what I said many posts ago.

Also I think you have in mind 2013 GT500 vs 2012 ZL1. Any numbers I find the ZL1 traps 117mph vs 116 for the 12 GT500 (thats so close it's hard to call, different days they could swap easily, but either way its not a large margin). And the ZL1 runs through at 12.1 vs 12.4 for the 12 GT500. The 13' GT500, thats a different story (and most likely what you read, not many 12 ZL1 vs 12 GT500 reviews since everyones waiting on the 13' GT500. Either way, why i nthe hell is this still more talk about the highest tier of these vehicles. This thread was a discussion of the mid tier (the vehicles with the suspension goodies but without air being rammed down the intake). I can see the point of discussing a bit of weight comparison (suspension wise since thats shared for the most part), but 1/4 times and track times for the top tier cars, no real point in bringing that into this.

[cdawall]

Meh good point. I brought up the GT500 and ZL1 since the suspension was so heavily shared. Which is why I think the Boss will loose on the track and win a straight line...

[1Kurgan1]

Oh yeah I agree for sure, the Boss is going to be faster in the straight line, the numbers are all there, more power, less weight. And live rear axle is another advantage there too. Track though it's hard to say for now, if the 1LE is as good on every (or most) tracks as they say it is on VIR, then it should be quicker around the track. But if those VIR numbers are made on a suspension tune specifically for VIR, then it could be different since the Mustang is lighter and more powerful.

Either way just like with comp hardware it's back and forth. Ford had 4.6l 300hp, Chevy puts out 6.2l 426hp, ford puts out 5.0l 412hp (but lighter) and also adds a Boss, Chevy puts out suspension refinements to combat Boss. Or GT500 5.4L then Camaro ZL1, then GT500 5.8L. In all those respects it will be interesting to see how Ford fires back at the 1LE and how Chevy fires back at the GT500. It's like the late 60's all over again, too bad Dodges aren't in the mix at a reasonable weight or price.

[Wile E]

How does it fair against the Laguna Seca Boss?

[FordGT90Concept]

I still want the 10.0L Boss

The EPA would implode if Ford mass-produced that car.

...ironic how they have similar color schemes.

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

It's like the late 60's all over again, too bad Dodges aren't in the mix at a reasonable weight or price.

Except for Ram, Dodge is effectively dead. They can't afford to get in that fight.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by Wile E

How does it fair against the Laguna Seca Boss?

Not sure since only thing they have mentioned testing the 1LE around was VIR. I'm sure it's closer (if not Laguna being faster), but by what amount, who knows? Though I think that since those are really limited the price is much higher.

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Except for Ram, Dodge is effectively dead. They can't afford to get in that fight.

The Callegner SRT-8 392 actually isn't a bad car. But it's over priced and even more over weight than the others. Around VIR the 392 is faster than a Camaro SS by about half a second and slower than a GT by a second. So it's a quick car, but the problem is, it's right between lowest priced V8 options and it doesn't hold candle to the Boss or the 1LE and it costs slightly more than both.